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Washington Court: Teachers Can Have Sex With 18-Year-Old Students
Fox News ^ | Tuesday, January 13, 2009

Posted on 01/13/2009 3:59:22 PM PST by Sopater

SEATTLE — Washington state law does not bar teachers from having sex with 18-year-old students.

That's the decision of a three-judge panel of the Washington Court of Appeals, which on Tuesday ordered the dismissal of a case brought against Hoquiam High School's former choir teacher.

The teacher, Matthew Hirschfelder, was charged with first-degree sexual misconduct with a minor. He challenged a judge's refusal to dismiss his case. The appeals court unanimously agreed that the state law is vague, and that the Legislature only intended to forbid sexual contact between school employees and students who are 16 or 17.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: activistcourts; ageofconsentlaws; culturewar; homeschool; naughtyteacherlist; publicschool; sexpositiveagenda
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1 posted on 01/13/2009 3:59:23 PM PST by Sopater
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To: metmom

Another reason to homeschool.

ping...


2 posted on 01/13/2009 3:59:53 PM PST by Sopater (I'm so sick of atheists shoving their religion in my face.)
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To: Sopater

What you said.


3 posted on 01/13/2009 4:00:35 PM PST by MahatmaGandu (Remember, remember, the twenty-sixth of November.)
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To: Sopater
I agree. The State has no business telling adults what to do.
4 posted on 01/13/2009 4:01:21 PM PST by Perdogg (Only the hypnotized never lie)
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To: Sopater

Well, an 18-y/o is an adult. It’s smarmy and disgusting and inappropriate in a school setting, but not criminal.


5 posted on 01/13/2009 4:02:38 PM PST by SandyInSeattle (Go, Sonics! And take the Seahawks with you.)
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To: sionnsar

Gray’s Harbor Ping!


6 posted on 01/13/2009 4:03:01 PM PST by SandyInSeattle (Go, Sonics! And take the Seahawks with you.)
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To: Sopater
SEATTLE — Washington state law does not bar teachers from having sex with 18-year-old students.

Didn't teachers used to have things like Moral Turpitude clauses inserted in their contracts?

Not illegal, just immoral as hell and damned unethical.

7 posted on 01/13/2009 4:03:49 PM PST by Centurion2000 (To protect and defend ... against all enemies, foreign and domestic .... by any means necessary.)
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To: Sopater

How long, Oh Lord?


8 posted on 01/13/2009 4:05:14 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (revolution is in the air.)
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To: SandyInSeattle

It should be criminal. After all school teachers are jack booted state thugs who must be constantly monitored by the courts lest they proselytize all the Jewish kids to the Baptist church. Why would we allow such untrustworthy people to seek sexual congress with the students?!(/s)


9 posted on 01/13/2009 4:05:39 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Perdogg
The State has no business telling adults what to do.

What do you think about a psychotherapist or a doctor having sex with adult patients? Think that's cool?

10 posted on 01/13/2009 4:06:02 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: SandyInSeattle
Well, an 18-y/o is an adult. It’s smarmy and disgusting and inappropriate in a school setting, but not criminal.

Well, do we really need to tout headlines that list the things smarmy and disgusting and inappropriate things that teachers can do without bringing criminal charges? They should at least be fired and have their licenses revoked. Teaching just isn't for them.
11 posted on 01/13/2009 4:07:15 PM PST by Sopater (I'm so sick of atheists shoving their religion in my face.)
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To: Sopater

“So, Susie, I hear your 18th birthday is coming up next week. Want to earn an easy A?”


12 posted on 01/13/2009 4:07:34 PM PST by fr_freak
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To: SandyInSeattle

It’s all about power. That’s why some states instituted laws that protect even 18-year-old students from teachers who have authority over them and don’t have their students’ best interests in mind.


13 posted on 01/13/2009 4:07:48 PM PST by goldi
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To: hinckley buzzard

Well that goes beyond “the State”, that goes against one of the basic tenents of the beliefs in psychotherapy. Therefore the profession takes care of themselves.


14 posted on 01/13/2009 4:07:50 PM PST by Perdogg (Only the hypnotized never lie)
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To: hinckley buzzard

It’s unethical, but not illegal.

Not a state problem. If the school district policy forbids it, then they can do whatever discipline the event warrants, but it’s not a crime.


15 posted on 01/13/2009 4:08:57 PM PST by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: goldi

I’m sure the first order of business for the legislature in Olympia will be to rewrite the law to tighten up this particular loophole.


16 posted on 01/13/2009 4:11:09 PM PST by SandyInSeattle (Go, Sonics! And take the Seahawks with you.)
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To: Sopater

I think this is one unintended consequence of the current fad of holding back a child so he is 6 or 7 years old before starting Kindergarten (”redshirting”).

It means he will be a legal adult in high school.

I sent all my kids to Kindergarten when they were 5, so when they are legal adults, they’ll be done with high school and moving out to college or elsewhere.

I should hope they would *want* to be doing that at age 18, rather than still living with Mommy and having sex with their high school teachers.


17 posted on 01/13/2009 4:12:13 PM PST by olivia3boys
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To: Centurion2000

“Not illegal, just immoral as hell and damned unethical.”

I agree 100%. When I taught in grad school, my students were all above the age of 18, too (average age was around 20, actually). I still didn’t even CONSIDER the idea of having an out-of-the-classroom relationship with any of them. It would have been unethical, unprofessional, and just plain wrong. Some things you just don’t do, simple as that.


18 posted on 01/13/2009 4:14:00 PM PST by DemforBush (Sarah Sarah Sarah!)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: Sopater

Wow — I had no idea that even at FreeRepublic we’ve got folks who have no clue regarding the ethics of a Teacher/Pupil relationship in a public school environment..

In a sane world - this 33 year old chicken hawk’s least concern would be his punishment under the law.....

Too many of these damned “teachers” confuse the “No kid left behind — with no kid’s behind left alone”..


20 posted on 01/13/2009 4:19:14 PM PST by river rat (Semper Fi - You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: SandyInSeattle

They should tighten up that loophole. When an 18-year-old has graduated and is not under the influence of the school or its employees, or has quit school at the age of 18 (I believe the school leaving age in Washington is 18), then the student can freely choose whom they want to have a relationship with. I’m fine with that.


21 posted on 01/13/2009 4:19:40 PM PST by goldi
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To: olivia3boys

That doesn’t exactly work for those of us who have kids whose birthday’s are in the middle of the school year. Sure my kindergartener is five now, but come April, she’ll be six. So she will still be in highschool when she’s 18, in Washington State no less.

Although, she’s homeschooled, so she tests at a first grade level, and won’t be exposed to creeps, well as much anyway.


22 posted on 01/13/2009 4:31:14 PM PST by mockingbyrd
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To: mockingbyrd

ack....run away apostrophes!!!!!


23 posted on 01/13/2009 4:32:17 PM PST by mockingbyrd
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To: Sopater

That’s just WRONG!


24 posted on 01/13/2009 4:33:54 PM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country! What else needs said?)
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To: Centurion2000; wintertime
Not illegal, just immoral as hell and damned unethical.

Abuse of a position of authority, conflict of interest, loss of trust and respect, breakdown of good order and discipline... and on and on.

What ethics? The Torah is not welcome in schools. Self-control is a vice; licentiousness is liberty. No wonder the goddess of liberty is equated with the ho of Babylon. There is no truth, no mercy, and no knowledge of God in the land. Outcome-based education = outcome-based elections. Obamanation.

25 posted on 01/13/2009 4:34:43 PM PST by Ezekiel (Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.)
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To: Sopater

This is the state that gave us Mary Kay Letourneau.


26 posted on 01/13/2009 4:40:03 PM PST by hunter112 (We seem to be on an excrement river in a Native American watercraft without a propulsion device.)
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To: Perdogg

A teacher who has sex with an 18 year old should be fired, but should not be criminally charged since no crime took place.


27 posted on 01/13/2009 4:42:24 PM PST by Texas_shutterbug
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To: Perdogg
I agree. The State has no business telling adults what to do.

True, but the taxpayers expect some level of decorum in the schools we pay for.

28 posted on 01/13/2009 4:42:39 PM PST by Cementjungle
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To: Sopater

Get back to me when it’s made mandatory.


29 posted on 01/13/2009 4:42:51 PM PST by x
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To: Sopater; Bender2
Washington Court: Teachers Can Have Sex With 18-Year-Old Students

Without asking?

30 posted on 01/13/2009 4:43:58 PM PST by big'ol_freeper (Gen. George S. Patton to Michael Moore... American Carol: "I really like slapping you.")
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To: Sopater

I thought the idea was that the position of authority was more important than the age, once we’re talking about both people being over the age of consent. Think Lewinski. Certainly from the girl’s point of view, she could have just as easily claimed all sorts of victimhood here and that teacher would be dead meat (”I had to do it for grades,” “I felt I had no choice,” etc.) And that is why it is bad policy for any teacher to have relations with a student (especially home schoolers!!!)


31 posted on 01/13/2009 4:45:38 PM PST by NonValueAdded (once you get to really know people, there are always better reasons than [race] for despising them.)
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To: big'ol_freeper
heh heh heh ... good one.

BTW, Michael Yon to Michael Moore, "I feel like suing you." Latest email from MY.

32 posted on 01/13/2009 4:48:37 PM PST by NonValueAdded (once you get to really know people, there are always better reasons than [race] for despising them.)
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To: SandyInSeattle

It is still wrong if she was a student of his. That means every college professor now can relive the 60’s!


33 posted on 01/13/2009 4:54:08 PM PST by cameraeye (It only just begun. Are we losing yet?)
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To: Sopater
the Legislature only intended to forbid sexual contact between school employees and students who are 16 or 17.

It seems he would have been on solid ground with a 14 year old.

34 posted on 01/13/2009 5:22:43 PM PST by Iron Munro (Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself)
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To: Perdogg

The State tells adults what to do all the time. To pay taxes, to drive the speed limit, where they can build and under what conditions, where they can smoke and drink, when to go to war, how many people can be in a building, all of these just for starters.


35 posted on 01/13/2009 5:25:52 PM PST by MBB1984
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To: DaveLoneRanger; 2Jedismom; aberaussie; Aggie Mama; agrace; Anima Mundi; Antoninus; arbooz; ...

ANOTHER REASON TO HOMESCHOOL

This ping list is for the “other” articles of interest to homeschoolers about education and public school. This can occasionally be a fairly high volume list. The main Homeschool Ping List handles the homeschool-specific articles. I hold both the Homeschool Ping List and the Another Reason to Homeschool Ping list. Please freepmail me to let me know if you would like to be added to or removed from either list, or both.

JUST........ WOW..........

36 posted on 01/13/2009 5:36:26 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Libertina; RedinaBlue; trustandhope; SoldierMedic; Global2010; Keith Brown; torqemada; WKL815; ...
Thanks to SandyInSeattle for the ping.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
Say WA? Evergreen State ping

FReepmail sionnsar if you want on or off this ping list.

Ping sionnsar if you see a Washington state related thread.

37 posted on 01/13/2009 5:38:03 PM PST by sionnsar (Iran Azadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY)|http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com/|RCongressIn2Years)
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To: Sopater
Another reason to homeschool

FYI, the ruling is equally applicable with regard to having sex with 18 y/o homeschoolers....

38 posted on 01/13/2009 5:44:05 PM PST by r9etb
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To: Perdogg

“I agree. The State has no business telling adults what to do.”

You mean like telling them not to murder, steal, commit fraud or so forth?

You see nothing wrong with teachers preying on their students?


39 posted on 01/13/2009 5:47:52 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Sopater

Here is the opinion:

http://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/index.cfm?fa=opinions.showOpinion&filename=368048MAJ


40 posted on 01/13/2009 5:47:56 PM PST by SeaHawkFan
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To: goldi
(I believe the school leaving age in Washington is 18),

It's 16.

41 posted on 01/13/2009 5:50:59 PM PST by SeaHawkFan
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To: Iron Munro
It seems he would have been on solid ground with a 14 year old.

A 14 year old would be charged as a more serious crime.

42 posted on 01/13/2009 5:52:25 PM PST by SeaHawkFan
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To: The Bat Man; nahanrac

I brought my pencil....


43 posted on 01/13/2009 5:55:35 PM PST by lilycicero (Speaking of hot for the teacher....we had one....but he was a priest.)
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Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

To: SeaHawkFan

Hey, Great!


45 posted on 01/13/2009 6:07:13 PM PST by goldi
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To: hinckley buzzard

I see this the same way as you. There is a problem with those who have an “authoritative” role in someone’s life that then crosses the line when it comes to sexuality. These girls or boys may technically be adults, but emotionally and psychologically there arises many, many problems when one partner has this type of “control” whether real, or imagined within a relationship.

As you said, just as it is immoral and unethical for a therapist or doctor to engage in sexual relations with their patients, so too is it immoral and unethical for teachers (or professors, even - as in college-age students) to engage in sexual relations with their students.

While these teachers may face no criminal punishment, one would hope they would be fired all the same for their unethical behavior.


46 posted on 01/13/2009 6:20:46 PM PST by LibertyRocks ( http://LibertyRocks.wordpress.com ~ Pro-Palin & NObama Gear : http://cafepress.com/NO_ObamaBiden08)
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To: Sopater

After doing a bit of research, the Court of Appeals had no choice but to reverse the conviction. Not saying I like the idea of a teacher having sex with even an 18 year old student , but it is a problem for the legislature to fix.


47 posted on 01/13/2009 6:26:42 PM PST by SeaHawkFan
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Comment #48 Removed by Moderator

To: lilycicero

I wonder what idiot wrote that law? You can’t have sex with other adults in the workplace, but one of your adult students? That’s fine....


49 posted on 01/13/2009 7:01:51 PM PST by nahanrac
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To: Centurion2000

“Didn’t teachers used to have things like Moral Turpitude clauses inserted in their contracts?”

Those were removed about 10 years ago when the White House declared oral sex was not sex.


50 posted on 01/13/2009 7:05:33 PM PST by Rebelbase
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