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Long wait for neurology care
The Irish Times ^ | January 19, 2009 | Editorial Comment

Posted on 01/19/2009 9:47:31 AM PST by oh8eleven

"IMAGINE HAVING to wait 18 months to see a specialist after you went to your GP with chest pain. Or having symptoms suggestive of cancer and waiting at least a year to see a consultant. Either scenario, were it to occur on a regular basis, would trigger a public outcry. For the three-quarters of a million people with a neurological condition, however, waiting 18 months to see a consultant and 10 months to have an MRI scan in order to secure a diagnosis is now the norm."

(Excerpt) Read more at irishtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: healthcare; socialism
I just can't wait for 0bama to foist this kind of EU health care on the sheeple. You wanted change - just wait, it's coming.
1 posted on 01/19/2009 9:47:32 AM PST by oh8eleven
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To: oh8eleven

Government run health care is no different anywhere.

Try finding a Medicare neurologist these days here in the US. Three month wait, if you are lucky.

And a Medicaid neurologist? Non-existent.


2 posted on 01/19/2009 10:01:10 AM PST by FormerACLUmember
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To: oh8eleven

Of course, not mentioned in the article is that an Irish citizen can see a private neurologist and get a private MRI instantly. Such services are not however “free.”


3 posted on 01/19/2009 10:04:55 AM PST by FormerACLUmember
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To: oh8eleven
I must plead ignorance here, but I beg for some enlightenment.

Why does it take 10 months to get an MRI? So few machines purchased with the limited funds of a government paid health plan? So few operators of said machines due to low pay, or there is no money in the plan to pay for more?
What limits all this? The government just doesn't have the $$ to pay for these things? No one wants to work in healthcare due to the low wages? Can someon help me out hre so I have ammo against those I talk to who advocate universal healthcare?

As an aside, I can tell you this: My county free health clinic has a policy of only taking daily appointments. This means you have to start calling them at 8 am and hope you get through before all of the appointments for the day are taken. Of course, you are calling them along with a thousand other people, so it's always busy. If you do not get through in time, too bad! You'll have to try again tomorrow, as they do not accept appointments for anything but the current day.
Contrast this with you-pay-your-way healthcare: I call my Dr. and if I'm really bad off, I'll get squeezed in somehow, otherwise, I'm given an appointment for the next day or a few days from now.

Folks, government run healthcare is not the answer!

4 posted on 01/19/2009 10:08:22 AM PST by jeffc (They're coming to take me away! Ha-ha, he-he, ho-ho!)
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To: FormerACLUmember

It took almost 2 months for my daughter to get an EEG after a grand mal seizure last year. That was in California with a PPO insurance.

It meant she was on crappy seizure medication for 2 months longer than we wanted.


5 posted on 01/19/2009 10:19:11 AM PST by luckystarmom
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To: oh8eleven
As retired military, I am on TRICARE/Healthnet for my medical care. There's good news and bad news.

The good news: Healthnet is very, very inexpensive. I pay $230 a year for full outpatient and inpatient care. $10 copay. Prescriptions are $3-$9. I get Healthnet as part of military retirement.

The bad news: service runs between fair and bad. It takes six weeks to get a doctor's appointment. It takes a minimum of six months to schedule a physical. When I go to the doctor I usually see a PA or NP. The doctor comes in at the end for less than five minutes and reviews, punches-up his Blackberry, and vanishes. It is impossible -- impossible -- to get the doctor's office on the phone. All communications must be done by fax. There is a delay each way. Getting a referal to see a specialist takes months. This is not good medical care.

Good. Fast. Cheap. Choose two.

6 posted on 01/19/2009 10:20:40 AM PST by pabianice
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To: oh8eleven

I have MS. Initial visit to a neurologist can be a wait, unless your GP is willing to go to bat for you and say it’s urgent. But once the neurologist said, “Could be brain tumor or MS,” I had an MRI within days. And every subsequent MRI I’ve had, there was never much of a wait.

My understanding, from Canadian friends who have MS, is that the wait in Canada is caused by lack of machines, thus making the wait longer.


7 posted on 01/19/2009 10:45:47 AM PST by Dawn531
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To: FormerACLUmember
... not mentioned in the article is that an Irish citizen can see a private neurologist and get a private MRI instantly. Such services are not however “free.”
I believe Canada has the same system.
8 posted on 01/19/2009 11:52:11 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: jeffc
Can someon help me out hre so I have ammo against those I talk to who advocate universal healthcare?
You ask good questions, none of which I can answer.
However, my son's brother-in-law is a doctor doing a Fellowship in Victoria, BC. His experiences are not unlike those in the news article.
He says anyone who works for the gov't, including health care, has such an attitude it's a wonder there still is a Canada.
9 posted on 01/19/2009 11:58:38 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: jeffc

I’m a psychologist, used to be a nurse and have served on a Board of Health for many years. I’m not sure that I can answer your question precisely but will share what I know about centrally planned “care”. I’ll start with a personal example. My husband recently has had problems with lightheadedness. Initially we thought it was a virus but after it persisted longer than 2-3 weeks (with some chest pain), the NP thought we needed to do tests to rule out “the big dogs”. He had a cardiac cath and an MRI. It only took a matter of days to get these both done. We wanted to rule out CAD, brain tumors, etc. However, in reality the probability of either of these was pretty low and given that we haven’t found anything thus far, his lightheadedness will likely go away on it’s own (it will be self-limiting). If we were in Canada, Ireland, etc. we probably wouldn’t have gotten these tests so quickly. We might have been put on a waiting list and by the time his name would come up he would be better (most likely) or very sick or dead (much less likely). In public health we tend to look at the big picture and probabilities - doing the most good with the resources we have. Centrally planned health care is similar...how can we do the most good with the resources we have - think utilitarianism if you are into philosophy. Many neurological problems are rare (brain tumors really aren’t common) and/or can wait, so I imagine this is one explanation for why resources in this area are limited. Read Daschle’s book. He talks about having a “board/group” make decisions as to the “standards of care” and allocation of resources.


10 posted on 01/19/2009 12:28:00 PM PST by drjulie
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To: drjulie
But what, in socialized medicine, cause such long waiting times? Obviously, I'm not familiar with any of it. I gave an example of my county's free clinic. Their problem seems to be a lack of resources for the number of people needing care. Is that the answer I'm looking for? That it (socialized medicine) is just way more expensive than the government realizes and they start out with "good intentions" (and the guaranteed votes and the chance to spend lots of taxpayer $$), but soon realize it's an impossible task?
It is then that they create a two-tiered system of healthcare - one for them (quick, easy access to quality healthcare), and one for the "masses" (slow, antiquated, pray-they-don't-kill-you service in run-down facilities staffed by those who stopped caring about helping people long ago and just wish you would die stuff).

Am I getting close to understanding it? At least this is my impression of what people are saying. I fear for us if we come to that.

Why doesn't the government expand college grants and loans to those who attempt to enter the healthcare field, and why they are at it, give tax breaks to those colleges (mostly two-year ones) that offer AS degrees in healthcare.
I'm on a waiting list to get into the Cardiovascular Technician program at my local community college - 180 applied for 60 seats. As popular as the program is, and the real need for such technicians, they should be expanding the program.

11 posted on 01/19/2009 1:47:55 PM PST by jeffc (They're coming to take me away! Ha-ha, he-he, ho-ho!)
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To: jeffc

I think the first reason is that when something is “free” more people will use it. So, I can’t stop people from going to the doctor (which costs dollars) whenever they want but I can control the use of expensive technology. Also, when someone or a group is managing health care resources (as the case in socialized medicine) they are more likely to allocate resources in ways that help more people (i.e., they prioritize). For instance, if I have a million dollars I could help more people by paying for immunizations than by purchasing more MRI machines. Younger people have more utility, as well (which makes investments in immunizations even more desirable). So if you are a five-year-old you can easily get an immunization but if you are a 55-year-old you will have to wait for an MRI. A 55-year-old with a brain tumor (or a possible brain tumor) does not have as much utility as 50 children. I’m not saying I agree with any of the above, it just explains the shortage. Not only do they limit the purchase of technologies that are expensive but also the training of personnel. If you have a large number of CV technicians you are likely to have more testing done. Of course, there could be other reasons for a lack of slots. In nursing, it is very difficult to find instructors and that often limits what colleges can do as far as enrollments.


12 posted on 01/19/2009 2:06:34 PM PST by drjulie
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To: oh8eleven
... not mentioned in the article is that an Irish citizen can see a private neurologist and get a private MRI instantly. Such services are not however “free.” I believe Canada has the same system.

In Canada, there is a quiet civil rights war going on. The Government Bureaucracy and the socialist scum who run the country contend that doctors have no legal right to provide ANY private care.

13 posted on 01/19/2009 4:10:05 PM PST by FormerACLUmember
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To: long hard slogger; FormerACLUmember; Harrius Magnus; hocndoc; parousia; Hydroshock; skippermd; ...
Socialized Medicine aka Universal Health Care PING LIST

FReepmail me if you want to be added to or removed from this ping list.


14 posted on 01/20/2009 12:47:45 PM PST by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
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To: FormerACLUmember
Not true. Wife's group sees them everyday. The Medicaid patients however are a burden and the most litigious.
15 posted on 01/20/2009 1:06:37 PM PST by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the occupation media.)
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To: socialismisinsidious

bookmark


16 posted on 01/20/2009 1:13:03 PM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: PA Engineer
Wife's group sees them everyday. The Medicaid patients however are a burden and the most litigious.

Some states pay slightly better.

17 posted on 01/20/2009 1:22:48 PM PST by FormerACLUmember
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To: jeffc
As an aside, I can tell you this: My county free health clinic has a policy of only taking daily appointments

I don't know your circumstances or the availability of MRI clinics but I had one back in October with only a week's notice. But then again, we have lots of MRI facilities available here..........

18 posted on 01/20/2009 3:08:31 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (My grandpa started walking five miles a day when he was 60..Now we don't know where he is.)
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