Jurist (R. Bork) predicts ‘terrible conflict’ will endanger U.S. Catholics’ religious freedom

CNA ^

[Lorica]

Judge Bork said he also thought that America is “now going down a path towards kind of a happy-go-lucky nihilism.”

“A lot of people are nihilists,” he continued. “They don’t think about religion. They don’t think about ultimate questions. They go along. They worry about consumer goods, comfort, and so forth.

He nails it.

[AnAmericanMother]

You know, if you show up twice a year for Christmas and Easter, you're attending "regularly".

I'm sure the folks that pack the church and the parking lot twice a year see themselves as "good Catholics". I mean, we all like to see ourselves as good, no matter what we're doing.

The real question for such a survey would be: How often do you attend Mass? (a) once a week or more; (b) 2-3 times a month; (c) Christmas and Easter; (d) for weddings and funerals. THAT would separate the sheep from the goats.

[glide625]

I’ve got lots of practicing Jewish friends who didn’t vote Democrat and according to them, they never have.

I honestly don’t know what to think anymore. Of course, in about what, 18 to 24 months(?), NO ONE will have ever voted for Obama, (hee hee).

[Dr.Deth]

“A lot of people are nihilists,”

"Nihilists! **** me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos."

[wintertime]

A.A. Cunningham and AnAmericanMother, the following is a link and a quote. Please note that it is for Catholics who attend mass **weekly**.

Something is seriously wrong here that so many mass attending Catholics would vote for Obama. I haven't looked but I bet the stats aren't much better for fundamentalist Christians.

http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/articles.cfm?ID=281

And still most Catholics voted for Obama. Again: why?

Before answering that question, let me cite one more vitally important piece of polling information: Among Catholic voters who attend Mass weekly, McCain won majority support: 54- 45%. Among those who do not attend weekly Mass, the margin for Obama was an overwhelming 61- 37%. Thus Obama drew his support from inactive Catholics. And unfortunately, most American Catholics are inactive.

[Canedawg]

“I don’t roll on Shabbos.”

[AnAmericanMother]

As the article says, a whole generation of uncatechized Catholics, political liberalism, and turning a blind eye to pro-abortion Catholic politicians is not undone by a few orthodox bishops' press releases right before the election.

It will take 2-3 generations to make this right.

[wintertime]

Antoninus,

I provided a link and a quote in post #65. I said that 46% of Mass attending Catholics voted for Obama. In the link provided it states 45% of Catholics who attended **weekly** voted for Obama.

[wintertime]

a whole generation of uncatechized Catholics,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It means getting Catholic children out of the government school indoctrination camps, and totally reforming Catholic schools and universities that preach Liberation Theology and worship Karl Marx.

By the way, do NOT send your precious children to Villanova University, an Augustinian university. As an alumna of this university, I testify that it is more devoted to Marxist theology than it is Christ.

[AnAmericanMother]

My daughter's at a Presbyterian college.

Better orthodox, conservative Presbyterians than lapsed Catholics.

[steve86]

46% of Catholics who attend Mass regularly voted for Obama.

Zero or nearly zero percent of traditional Catholics who attend the pre-Vatican II Latin Mass voted for Obama

What's my point? Modernism is a bad thing.

[wintertime]

I agree.

[wintertime]

I agree.

[Running On Empty]

Ping

[steve86]

The real question for such a survey would be: How often do you attend Mass? (a) once a week or more; (b) 2-3 times a month; (c) Christmas and Easter; (d) for weddings and funerals. THAT would separate the sheep from the goats.

This question works for most "contemporary" Catholics but I know of traditionalists who don't always have a Mass with the proper rubrics nearby and so they say Rosaries instead, etc. They still consider themselves to be good and observant Catholics, if more discerning, which is valid, IMO.

[AnAmericanMother]

That's throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

I don't see how 'discernment' (which often shades over into pride) should be given precedence over obedience, of which there is not nearly enough around these days.

The Rosary is no substitute for a valid Mass (and the Mass may be valid but illicit and still fulfil the obligation).

Father Z, who is as orthodox as they come, opines here.

Now that BXVI has issued the motu proprio, I'm afraid a lot of the trad movement is simply folding its arms and stamping its feet.

[steve86]

There is valid guidance (and I do not have the link at the moment), permitting one to avoid obligations which would have the effect of diminishing one's faith, whether or not the Sacraments are valid. In my own case, the adverse emotional reaction is such upon experiencing a Novus Ordo Mass (especially one with abuse of the rubrics) that my faith is harmed. I do normally attend an extraordinary rite Mass, when offered and health permits.

[ichabod1]

Secular jews, secular catholics. None of them of much use in God’s Kingdom.

[steve86]

Should have said extraordinary form, probably.

[giotto]

The Catholic Church is useless as a moral compass for its millions of faithful followers. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops issued this handy, helpful set of guidelines which spells out what bishops and priests can and cannot do regarding political matters:

Do's And Don'ts--Faithful Citizenship--United States Conference of Catholic Bishops

It's a long and very complicated list that boils down to this: Saving the 501(c)(3) status of the Catholic Church in the U.S. is more important than saving souls.