Posted on 01/30/2009 10:03:07 AM PST by jazusamo
That doesn’t make the federal government requiring they be part of a curriculum not a conservative position.
There is nothing that the government can’t screw up once it gets its hands on it, education included and watching the decline of education and literacy with the increase in government interference bears that out.
The government shouldn’t be in the business of mandating anything *all for our own good*.
You can try to find excuses to try to justify it but just because you think that you have a good reason to impose your will on others doesn’t mean that you do.
Then why did the Founders empower them to do things like establish standard weights and measures, and require that they be used?
“Islam is the tool of destruction and death forces”
Yep. So what? US citizens will do what the fed govt tells them to do. US citizens will believe what the fed govt tells them to believe. US citizens will follow the law the fed.gov tell thems to follow. Muslims figured this psyche glitch out long ago. Most US citizens are still blinded by a bogus faith which has long since passed them by.
As for those who won’t do, and won’t believe as mandated, well, they’re kooks and whackos.
Goodluck stopping this Islam thing. Gonna be tough though. The fed.gov is with the muslims celebrating the religion of peace. US observance of Ramadan is just around the next bend. How so? It’s already been acknowledged and honored by our past POTUS. In essence, applying a sense of credibility to the observance.
Now we will witness how Obama expands on it. I got my money on the official US observance of Ramadan within the next 5 years.
Sure it does. Supporting the government mandating anything is a liberal postition, through and through.
The government is not our master. It was not put in charge of us to make sure we toe the line, all for our own good of course. It is a representative republic, not an oligarchy.
Things are not people. Sheesh.
Mandating attendance at government controlled schools centers is not a power that the government was given.
“Then why did the Founders empower them to do things like establish standard weights and measures, and require that they be used? “
I’m thinking they didn’t want anything to do with the metric system. The measurements had to be measured differently.
Mandating attendance at government controlled schools centers is not a power that the government was given.
I said I was in favor of the federal govenment mandating some things. I didn't say what they were, and you didn't ask, you just assumed that if I was in favor of them mandating anything I must be in favor of them mandating everyting. That's your own polarizing logic at work.
The federal government is not empowered to require school attendance. Your state government is.
What?!?! I'll get a raise????
The issues are separate. Public schools - SOME public schools - have issues.
As far as my attitude toward the average parent, I point to the election process of 2007/2008. The average parent’s grasp of history, math, economics, logic, and science is sub-fifth grade level.
You’ve seen the results of the history exam given to Harvard Seniors, right? 8th grade level American History exam - 30% passed.
It’ not just the average parent, it’s everyone.
It’s my belief that if we actually understood how to calculate net present value and future value, and understood what that meant in the context of TARP and Porkulus, we’d be assassinating elected officials everywhere.
We ‘hate’ math, however, and as such, Obama pledges the mortgaging of my daughter’s great, great grandchildren’s future, and he’s elected in an electoral landslide.
The argument, for example, that the idiots that signed up for their mortgages didn’t understand what they were getting into is just a metric ton of horse dung.
Their INABILITY TO COMPREHEND THE LOAN DOCUMENTS, in my mind, disqualified them from signing them - regardless of their age or educational level.
When they affixed the signature to the document, they SWORE they understood what they were getting into.
This is THE SAME CREW that you want teaching their own kids?
The school system is under some degree of public scrutiny, and the curicula is published. That’s at least something.
The average parent? Not qualified to sign a loan doc, apparently.
Ah!! The issues are NOT separate at all. It is the never ending beat of socialism that caused the politicization of taxpayer supported schools, run by the government.
It is really rich that you so complain about the average person as being too stupid to understand their loan docs, yet I BET EVERYONE OF THEM CAME FROM THOSE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, NOT HOMESCHOOLS!!!!!!!
Talk about irony. yesh.
“I BET EVERYONE OF THEM CAME FROM THOSE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, NOT HOMESCHOOLS!!!!!!!”
Your starting to track now. The people doing the homeschooling are the same people educated in the public school system. Remember, however, that in many, if not most, cases private schools have their own set of issues. If it isn’t burnout, it’s drugs, or its the math curriculum being shoddy.
Private schools lack the oversight.
MY WHOLE POINT: the average parent doesn’t have either the skill or the educational background in the basics to teach an elementary through middle school curriculum. That they don’t have the ability to teach High School shouldn’t even be a debate topic.
BECAUSE OF THIS: homeschooling isn’t a viable general fix for the public school situation. Worse, if adopted large scale, the quality of education would drop, not increase.
The parents are really the first and last line of defense in education. It’s that, or you get BLESSED and your kid figures out that EITHER I get an education, or I will never escape my circumstances.
For a LOT of kids, school is a safe place to be away from home. Homeschool would be a prison sentence for a lot of kids. Amazing how many HS seniors, once they turn 18, end up living either on the street or with a friend because they have been kicked LEGALLY out of their houses prior to HS graduation.
For a lot of kids, the meals they get at school are the only meals they are getting that day. In our neighborhood 42% of kids are on the free/reduced lunch program. 4 in 10.
Yet, gas is $2.00/gallon. If that isn’t price fixing, I don’t know what is.
You really don’t get it, do you?
Too bad, so sad, that you wish to encumber thousands of Americans with a sub system of slavery, instead of freedom.
‘Too bad, so sad . . .”
Are you six years old?
Seriously, do you not get the fact that the great bulk of parents just don’t have the skills?
Improper fractions, polynomials, point-slope formula, Brown v. Board of Education, ‘taxation without representation’, diagraming a sentence, unity of time and place, introductory clauses, igneous rock, symbiosis, acids and bases. . .
Most parents would just fold.
Retorts along the lines of ‘Too bad, so sad’ has to give a person pause in terms of considering educating their own kids.
“MY WHOLE POINT: the average parent doesn’t have either the skill or the educational background in the basics to teach an elementary through middle school curriculum.”
So, your whole point is NOBODY can teach if they have a public school education, and that includes ALL OF THE TEACHERS TEACHING IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS TODAY!!!!!!Because we all know that the teaching credential has no classes covering the said curriculum that you claim the average parent lacks. And if you want to claim different you are going to HAVE to prove it because too many Freepers here have stated that there are NO SUCH CLASSES.
You want the children of the USA to remain in the dead, stupid, indoctrinating, soulless public schools. You want the children to die in ignorance and be enslaved by YOUR kind, so you can have a job. Heartless. Elitist snob.
Re-read my responses.
I said it isn’t a viable general alternative. For certain people, it works. For the majority, it doesn’t.
It’s all I’m saying.
The worst part is you can’t test the parent to see whether they are teaching their kids, or if you have a ‘blind leading the blind’ situation.
Public school teachers are degreed, go through student teaching, and have to maintain their certification. It doesn’t mean that ALL are good teachers. It does mean that someone’s regulating them. If the NEA weren’t around, you may have a shot at retaining the good ones and firing the bad ones.
By the way, the curriculum DOES have the classes on the subject matter they teach. You get certificated in a main subject area, with a sub-cert in a minor area.
Teaching is both art and science. You can have hyper-qualified people in an area of specialty, and they can have zero ability to reach students. Much of a teacher’s degree addresses this very thing, and more.
You’re suffering from media poisoning. The schools are a banquet. Kids pick what they want to eat and leave the rest. Some think it’ll be fat city forever, and the blow it off. Some know different, and make the most of it.
There’s some truth in what you’re saying about indoctrination, but the schools aren’t dead, or are they stupid, and they aren’t soulless either.
Schools are like any other opportunity - you deal with the limitations and make the most of the advantages. Funny how you don’t have to explain this to SE Asian kids.
I’ll tell you this much, I’d be dead right now if it were up to my parents teaching me school on a daily basis. Between school, and the military, I escaped.
You show me a myth that needs to die in America, and that’s the myth that mommy knows best. Mother’s are the most powerful legal entity in the USA.
You want to kill a union? The family court system would be a worthy adversary.
In the interest of full disclosure, I’m not a teacher. I’m an engineer. Any credit for me getting to this point belongs to the teachers I had in 3rd, 8th, 10th, 11th, and 12th grades.
I had my share of bad ones too. From them I learned how to deal with bad bosses and survive. Same with the military.
They aren’t going to learn that from Mommy. You know what’s worse? If mommy can’t teach, they can’t wait until next year to get a fresh shot at a different teacher. They are stuck with mommy until they graduate. Year in and year out, sticking it out with mommy.
The good news for mommy is that since the kids don’t get another teacher, they never find out for quite a while how bad they were (or how good).
Either way, the kid doesn’t get a say in things, and even if they did, they’re ignorant about the matter because the one teacher’s all they’ve ever had (or two if dad’s involved). No principal’s going to come around and evaluate mommy to see if she’s any good at the job.
Here’s the thing: Public schools can be improved, like everything else. Looking at them ‘half-empty’ is one way to go about it. Parents, from my perspective, are OBLIGATED to teach their kids, even if the kids do spend all day at school.
My kids come home with neo-environmental cultism too. Then they sit and talk with dad. They come home with ‘black history month’, and I tell them it misses Dr. King’s point completely - that it was never about race, but character.
You can’t protect your children from different perspectives. Even homeschooling doesn’t work for that. Parents can, however, prepare them with tools for how to evaluate the merits of those perspectives.
If that’s being an elitist snob, then I guess you’re right.
Homeschooling is most certainly a viable alternative. A more wholesome and challenging one than any cookie cutter, red tape adder, parent discounting, students are just a number and a paycheck, system. And for the majority, the public schools are failing.
That’s all I am saying.
Your whole point about testing is unfounded. Homeless moms have homeschooled and her son who a perfect score on the SAT a few years ago. That mom wasn’t tested by anyone. And the teachers in the system WHEN THEY ARE TESTED, the majority don’t pass. The public school teachers in New York I believe couldn’t pass an eight grade test. Graduated teaching teachers couldn’t pass!!! What a royal rip off!! The idea that credentials have anything to do with ability is false and a paradigm of the left. Useless baloney.
The curriculum DOES NOT get taught. Just last week a Freeper posted a teaching friends confession that she was NOT taught enough math to teach well. MATH!! Never mind the shuffling of teaching assignments to classes that are not their area of study, and more than 70% of kids are taught by a teacher that is not in their area of study. Those teachers aren’t able to teach well and have their hands tied in knots.
The schools are dead soulless and full of indoctrination. Anyone who does not know this is got their head in the sand. This nation is going to lose its freedoms because of people like you who WANT to believe the schools can be saved and send their kids there. They are the reason why the left keeps making progress, while conservatives will become the bane of society. Do you not understand that is how 0 got elected? Are you asleep? The blind leading the blind?
The crack about media poisoning is a laugh. The media hates homeschoolers. HA!! Your the one that is poisoned by your own difficult past and the media. You believe that nonsense about homeschoolers are too “protected” HA! Your hate and pain makes it IMPOSSIBLE for you to be impartial towards homeschoolers.
If you think that some bureaucrat out there cares more about the kids in the schools, that is just sad. Truly. Do you know why the schools aren’t held responsible for the education of the kids FORCED to attend by law? BECAUSE THEIR IS NO LAW REQUIRING ANY CHILD TO BE EDCUATED BY THE TAXPAYER SUPPORTED SYSTEM. So you think this bastion of “hope” and failure should be in charge of who is worthy to teach? You want to give even more power to the feminazis in the schools? Where do you think all these metro sexual boys are coming from? They have only just started to turn over children to homo’s for adoption.
That is crazy. Your pain is short circuiting your brain. Your situation is not anywhere near “average” and the kids who have moms who really don’t care, those moms don’t homeschool.
As a personal note, the schools did not save me or my brothers. Our parents were too busy with their careers and putting each other though college to care about us. Not one teacher for the three of us helped or cared. Period. The schools may have saved you, but there are MORE kids they hurt and abandon than they help. Homeschooling moms are not YOUR mom. We are a feisty and dedicated bunch. We care more about the KIND of education that our children receive than ANYONE else. It does NOT take a village.
As far as I am concerned, credentialing, bureaucratizing, left leaning socialist institutions with mushy group think are not what made this country. It was FREEDOM. That your mom did not cherish you and care is a sin. But no school is going to care enough to make up for the loss of freedom you advocate. Do you really think that all homeschoolers should lose the freedoms we do have, just because your mom failed you? That is honestly, evil. Wake up.
That’s why your children must be kept away from the virulent influence of Quranic Islam. False religion.
What about teaching Islamophobic ideology to homeschooled kids?
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