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Eluana Transferred Late Tuesday Night to Clinic for Death by Dehydration
LifeSiteNews ^ | 2/3/09 | Hilary White

Posted on 02/03/2009 11:07:44 AM PST by wagglebee

ROME, February 3, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Eluana Englaro, who is often referred to as “Italy’s Terri Schiavo,” was transferred late Tuesday night to a hospital that has agreed to participate in her killing by removal of her food and hydration tube. Television news coverage showed a group of pro-life activists gathered outside the clinic in Eluana’s home town of Lecco at about 1:30am, as an ambulance took her away, some shouting “Eluana, wake up!” and “Don’t kill her!”

Eluana Englaro, 38, suffered brain damage in a car accident in 1992 and has since been in a state of diminished consciousness. Eluana’s father, Beppino Englaro, who has been petitioning the courts for over a decade to euthanize his daughter, said her transfer to the new facility is “the first step... towards the liberation of my daughter. It seems we have finally succeeded.”

Beppino Englaro’s lawyer told media that La Quiete, a private clinic in the north eastern town of Undine, had agree to participate in her killing. Welfare Minister Maurizio Sacconi said the government is searching for a new way to prevent her death. The removal of Eluana’s food and hydration tube is set to be carried out in three days.

Death by dehydration has been described by medical authorities as “horrible” and “agonizing.” It was a common form of torture used by totalitarian states, including in well-documented cases by the Nazis in their death camps.

In cases of severe dehydration, toxins build up in the body and the body's chemical balances are disrupted. This disrupts the electrical system that triggers the action of muscles, including the heart. The tongue and lips crack and bleed. The eyes recede into their orbits. The skin becomes so sensitive it peels off upon firm contact. The lining of the nose can crack and bleed. Dried brain cells can cause convulsions. The mouth becomes dry and saliva thick, and there is cracking of the mucous membranes of the mouth and lips. The blood thickens, increasing the risk of stroke. As fluid decreases in the body, blood pressure drops and the heart rate increases, possibly causing shock and heart attack.

The move to kill Eluana has roused the ire of many in Italy, including Cardinal Javier Lozano Barragan, President of the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Pastoral Assistance to Health Care Workers, said on Tuesday, “Stop this murder!”

“To stop giving food and liquids to Eluana is equivalent to abominable murder and the Church will not cease to proclaim this loud and clear.” Interviewed by the Rome daily La Repubblica, the cardinal said that Eluana’s court-mandated death by dehydration “will represent a defeat for the respect of human life.” His comments come after Pope Benedict XVI spoke on Sunday against euthanasia, saying it is a false answer to suffering.

The consequences, both legal and moral, should Eluana Englaro be euthanized in a Catholic Country, will be dire, pro-life advocates have warned. Carlo Caffara, the archbishop of Bologna, said at Mass last weekend, “In the body of this woman, and in her fate, there is an image of the fate of the West.”

Eluana has become a “‘sign of contradiction’ between a culture of death and a culture of life,” he said. “Her martyred body has become the question addressed to every conscience that reflects on man's destiny: To whom does man belong? Who has dominion over man's life and death? Who owns man?”

“The spiritual event of the West has come to the end of the line: If the life of man does not belong to man but to God, no one has control over it for any reason, [but] if the life of man belongs to man, it is consistent to hypothesize circumstances in which everyone can do what he wants with his life or ask others to put an end to it,” Cardinal Caffara continued.

The killing of Eluana, said Msgr. Ignacio Barreiro, the director of the Rome office of Human Life International, is going to be disastrous for others in similar situations in Italy. Msgr. Barreiro said, “It would create a precedent whereby judges, against the law, can decide it's right to kill patients. We are not fighting for Eluana's life because she has limited signs of consciousness but because of her dignity as a human being.”

Pro-life legal experts have been especially concerned that should Eluana be “legally” killed by dehydration, it would create a “back door” through which euthanasia could be legalized. The government is considering legislation that would allow the creation of “living wills” that could specify the removal of food and hydration.

In November, health and welfare minister, Maurizio Sacconi, issued a statement that in Italy it is “illegal” to remove the food and hydration of helpless disabled patients with the purpose of ending their lives. Secretary of Welfare, Eugenia Roccella, also said that there is “no obligation” for government-funded health care facilities to implement the court’s decision that patients can be dehydrated to death.

In January, two pro-life advocates launched a legal challenge to the appeals court in Milan, arguing that the decision to allow Eluana’s killing had been made without sufficient medical examination to determine her condition. At that time, more than 700 Italian doctors had signed an open letter opposing the killing of Eluana, saying that such an action is an attack against the “basic rules of good medical practice as established in the declaration of Helsinki.”

EMBASSY OF ITALY IN THE UNITED STATES
3000 Whitehaven Street, NW - Washington, DC 20008
Tel (202) 612-4400 - Fax (202) 518-2154
Press and Public Affairs Office
Tel (202) 612-4444
Fax (202) 518-2154
e-mail: stampa.washington@esteri.it

Embassy of Italy in Ottawa
275 Slater Street, 21st Floor
Ottawa, Ontario K1P 5H9
CANADA
Tel +1.613.232.2401 - Fax +1.613.233.1484
ambasciata.ottawa@esteri.it
Press and Information
Tel: +1-613-232-2401
Fax: +1-613-233-1484
email: info.ottawa@esteri.it


EMBASSY OF ITALY IN LONDON
14, Three Kings Yard
London W1K 4EH
Tel.: +44 (0)20 73122200
Fax: +44 (0)20 73122230
ambasciata.londra@esteri.it
Gianluca Grandi, First Counsellor
Domestic Politics, EBRD
bers.amblondra@esteri.it

Other Italian Embassies:

http://www.esteri.it/MAE/Templates/SediTemplate.aspx?NRMODE=...


Read related LifeSiteNews.com coverage:

700 Italian Doctors ask that Eluana’s Life be Spared
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/jan/09011301.html

It is “Illegal” to Stop Food and Hydration of Vulnerable Patients: Top Italian Minister
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/dec/08121703.html



TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: eluanaenglaro; euthanasia; moralabsolutes; murder; prolife; terridailies; terrischiavo; whiterose
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To: BykrBayb

I did not argue against Eluana’s right to food and water. Period.


161 posted on 02/09/2009 11:50:53 PM PST by JustaDumbBlonde (America: Home of the Free Because of the Brave)
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To: JustaDumbBlonde

So you were against depriving her of food and water?

You can’t give a straight honest answer, can you? You can’t proudly proclaim which side you’re on, can you?


162 posted on 02/09/2009 11:55:15 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~ Þ)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the ping!


163 posted on 02/10/2009 7:02:39 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
Rest in Peace Eluana

Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi has said that he holds the communist president partly to blame for Eluana's death and it looks like the justice ministry might investigate further.

Two threads by me.

Italian Premier Blames President for Eluana Englaro's Death, Vatican Responds

Rome, Italy (LifeNews.com) -- In the day following the euthanasia death of Eluana Englaro, the disabled woman in a similar condition as Terri Schiavo, top political leaders are blaming one another for her death. Meanwhile, the Vatican has responded to Englaro's death and the Catholic Church says patients need more protections.

Englaro died on Monday after four days of partial starvation and dehydration after a medical clinic agreed to follow a court order allowing her father to take her life.

On Tuesday, Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said Englaro was "killed" and blamed President Giorgio Napolitano for her death because he refused to sign an emergency order to allow her food and water.

"Eluana did not die a natural death," Berlusconi told the Libero daily newspaper. "She was killed."

"Napolitano made a serious mistake," another paper quoted Berlusconi as saying. He lamented that the Italian parliament was not able to approve another measure in time to save her.

Englaro was "the only citizen to be condemned to death," he said, and added that the decision by the medical clinic to stop feeding her amounted to euthanasia, which is illegal in Italy. . .

_____________________________________________________________

Charges May Not Come in Eluana Englaro Case, Medical Hearing on Thursday

Rome, Italy (LifeNews.com) -- Local authorities and officials in the Udine region of Italy are unsure whether the medical staff who removed Eluana Englaro's feeding tube will face any hearings or charges in connection with her euthanasia death. Englaro died on Monday after four days of starvation and dehydration.

Her death was ordered by an Italian appeals court after her father Beppino had spent the better part of a decade fighting to take her life.

Englaro was expected to live two weeks but she succumbed to the starvation after only four days.

Prior to the removal of her feeding tube, national officials indicated they would prosecute the staff of any medical center that would remove it and cause her death.

On Tuesday, in the chaotic fallout from Englaro's death, the Udine prosecutor's office has ordered an autopsy on Englaro's body.

Public prosecutor in nearby Trieste, Beniamino Deidda, told the Italian news agency ANSA, ''For the moment we have no news from the commission of any crime."

Meanwhile, the Udine branch of the Italian Medical Association is planning a hearing on Thursday to establish whether disciplinary proceedings should go ahead for the medical team that removed her feeding tube. . .

"We will not be silent.
We are your bad conscience.
The White Rose will give you no rest."

164 posted on 02/10/2009 5:24:04 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: GonzoII; BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; 8mmMauser
The Russian Orthodox Church is calling euthanasia exactly what it is.

Thread by GonzoII.

Advocates of legalizing euthanasia impose “new totalitarianism” on society,- Moscow Patriarchate

Moscow, February 10, Interfax – The Russian Orthodox Church stands against euthanasia as “a form of suicide.”

“Suggestions to legalize euthanasia drive us away from freedom. It’s strange to hear such appeals to new forms of totalitarianism, imposing of certain attitude to new form of suicide at legislative level from some human rights advocates,” acting Secretary of the Moscow Patriarchate Department for External Church Relations Fr. Georgy Ryabykh told Interfax-Religion on Tuesday.

He believes that advocates of euthanasia “push a person to commit suicide,” while today there works a principle of “voluntary choice” on the question. According to Fr. Georgy, when the Church doesn’t accept euthanasia and considers it “a form of suicide,” thus it “expresses greater respect to human freedom than some human rights advocates, who demand a legislative permission for this action.”

The priest reminds that today legislation doesn’t prohibit euthanasia, people themselves take decision whether to commit suicide or not and consequently “some countries, including prosperous ones, are concerned with the increasing number of suicides.” The Church position, Fr. Georgy believes, “appeals to human conscience.”

“If the right on euthanasia is secured, it will impose certain restrictions on society. For example, doctors will be obliged to do it according to the law, even if they don’t wish. Besides, if we bring this question to the legal sphere, we provoke the tendency to suicides in society,” the interviewee of the agency said. . .

165 posted on 02/10/2009 5:27:31 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Caleb1411; BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; 8mmMauser
Caleb1411 has posted an editorial by our great friend Judie Brown about the hypocrisy of the Catholics in name only.

‘Pro-Abortion’ Cokie Roberts Merits No Award from Catholic College

A series of events over the past few days have brought to light, once again, how difficult it is for some people who call themselves Catholic to practice the faith they claim as their own.

At the same time, these events have confirmed the strength and courage required of those who not only wish to be identified as Catholic, but are also willing to step out in faith, go against the tide and actually make a difference for the Lord in this otherwise abysmal world of ours.

Today, for example, at a Philadelphia-area Catholic college, Cabrini by name, the annual Ivy Young Willis Award for Contributions to Public Affairs, will be bestowed on pro-abortion commentator Cokie Roberts. . .

166 posted on 02/10/2009 5:30:22 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

May God bless the loved ones.


167 posted on 02/10/2009 8:53:03 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: wagglebee

An indepth investigation and charges will be the only way to make sure the message is clear. If they fail to do either, it will be like placing the stamp of approval on it and there will be more of these to follow.


168 posted on 02/10/2009 9:18:42 PM PST by MountainFlower (There but by the grace of God go I.)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
Rest in Peace Eluana

The murderers have released portions of the medical log and the autopsy seems to indicate that Eluana died of dehydration.

Two threads by me.

Medical Center's Log Shows Starvation Took Toll on Eluana Englaro Quickly

Rome, Italy (LifeNews.com) -- The log from the medical center whose staff began the process of starving and dehydrating Eluana Englaro to death shows it took its toll on the disabled woman quickly. Englaro suffered from the effects of the withdrawal of food and water more rapidly than similar patients and died faster as well.

“Monday afternoon, temperature rises. Mucous membranes dry. Nurses spray lips with water droplets," the log read on Monday. A few hours later, Englaro died.

The Italian daily newspaper Corriere Della Sera says a "distress log" accompanied Englaro's medical records during the final days of her life.

The newspaper indicated the Italian nuns who took care of Englaro prior to her arrival at the medical center where she was deprived of food and water did a good job because she arrived in a very healthy condition. . .

_____________________________________________________________

Eluana Englaro Autopsy Claims No Wrongdoing in Starvation, Euthanasia Death

Rome, Italy (LifeNews.com) -- The results of the autopsy conducted on Eluana Englaro following her euthanasia death via starvation and dehydration claim no wrongdoing. The autopsy reveals no signs of foul play even though Englaro died quickly from the withdrawal of food and water as opposed to dying over a two week process as Terri Schiavo did.

Englaro died on Monday following four days of staff at her medical center denying her nutrition she had received from a feeding tube.

The disabled woman had been in a minimally conscious state for 17 years following an automobile accident at the age of 21 and her father had won a court ruling allowing him to kill her.

Some anti-euthanasia advocates were concerned that something had been done to hasten her death faster than would have been normal. Also, Englaro's own neurologist and medical team indicated they expected her to live for two weeks following the initial deprivation of food and water.

But preliminary results from the autopsy found that she died of a cardio-respiratory failure due to dehydration, police sources told Reuters. . .

"We will not be silent.
We are your bad conscience.
The White Rose will give you no rest."

169 posted on 02/11/2009 4:02:49 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: GonzoII; All
The Pope has stated the truth in the simplest and clearest terms.

Thread by GonzoII.

Pope: Life is not a disposable good

Vatican City (AsiaNews) - "Man's life is not a disposable good, but a treasure to be preserved and cared for with as much attentiveness as possible, from the moment of its beginning to its ultimate and natural fulfillment." This is the warning expressed today by Benedict XVI for the World Day of the Sick, in his greetings to those at St. Peter's Basilica who took part this afternoon in the Mass celebrated by Cardinal Javier Lozano Barragán, president of the Pontifical Council for the Pastoral Care of Health Care Workers. . .

170 posted on 02/11/2009 4:06:14 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; 8mmMauser
This story is just too shocking for words.

Thread by me.

Forced Abortion, Rape Victim Comes Forward After Abortionist Given Slap on the Wrist

DETROIT, Mich., February 11, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Outraged by what she considers a meaningless sentence and remarks by an attorney that she says are insulting and untrue, a former patient of Womancare, a Detroit-area abortion facility, has come forward to tell of her abortion experience with owner, abortionist Alberto Hodari.

Jennifer McCoy's hair-raising account of a forced abortion and the non-reporting of child sexual abuse that allowed her rapist to continue abusing her is part of an investigative report about Hodari's legal problems released today by the pro-life group Operation Rescue. (Click here to read: http://www.operationrescue.org/archives/forced-abortion-rape...)

Womancare, Inc. was last week given six months probation on one count of illegally disposing of abortion records. Eleven other counts have been dismissed. Womancare was charged after Citizens for a Pro-Life Society discovered abortion records along with the remains of aborted babies that had been illegally dumped in the clinic's trash, and reported their findings to the authorities. The Health Department chose not to pursue charges for the illegal disposal of human remains, however.

After the sentencing, Hodari's attorney, Victor Norris, told the press that Hodari had "never had any licensing violations or criminal allegations."

Operation Rescue's report tells a very different story. It reveals that Hodari has a record of 49 documented lawsuits, including four abortion-related deaths.

McCoy has told her own story about the abortionist, hoping that Hodari will be exposed and his dangerous abortion practice put to an end.

According to McCoy's testimony, she was 16-years old in 1988 when she discovered that she was pregnant, news that she says she welcomed since she believed that she was in love with her baby's father. She says she had no thought of abortion because she believed it was wrong.

However, the baby's father was her 39-year old high school ROTC teacher, who was married and had a family of his own, including a daughter that was Jennifer's age. Their relationship qualified as statutory rape.

Jennifer's mother found out about the relationship, but instead of reporting her daughter's sexual abuse to the authorities, she called the teacher and threatened to expose him if he did not help her persuade Jennifer to have an abortion. Jennifer was taken by her rapist to one of Hodari's clinics in Southgate under the pretense of receiving prenatal care. "I didn't even know what an abortion clinic was," she said.

Once at the clinic, she was asked to sign some papers. McCoy says she signed all the parts related to medical care, but refused to sign anything that discussed abortion. "That's not why I'm here," she says she repeatedly told the clinic staff.

Jennifer was then given an ultrasound examination. She asked to see her baby, but her request was refused. "It really isn't necessary," she was told.

She was placed in an examination room, and after a long wait, Hodari entered the room. She told him that she was just there for an exam. She had been told by the clinic staff that she had to get an exam in order to determine how far along she was.

Hodari began the exam. "Then all of a sudden I was in excruciating pain," Jennifer recalled. "I tried to sit up, and I heard a machine turn on, like a vacuum, and I realized what was going on."

"I tried to get up from the table. I actually tried to sit up, and he pushed me back down on the table and told me if I moved I could die. It would be over in five minutes and I could go on with my life. I was scared to death at that point that what he said was true, and so all I could do is lay there and cry."

Jennifer then left the clinic and headed straight to the Southgate Police Department, just up the street from the abortion mill, to file charges against Hodari for aborting her baby against her will. . .

171 posted on 02/11/2009 4:08:54 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Sadly, this is hardly rare!

Evidence of a Planned Parenthood sting exposing their
failure to report sexual abuse of an underage girl by an
adult male was taken to Colorado’s Republican AG, John
Suthers’ office several years ago.

We were told nothing could be done.


172 posted on 02/11/2009 4:36:12 PM PST by Lesforlife
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To: Lesforlife

Big Murder pays off a lot of people to look the other way.


173 posted on 02/11/2009 4:41:14 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

I am so sad. We are coming up on the anniversary of Terri’s dehydration/starvation. The world has gone mad.


174 posted on 02/11/2009 7:36:43 PM PST by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the ping!


175 posted on 02/11/2009 8:22:27 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Saundra Duffy
I am so sad. We are coming up on the anniversary of Terri’s dehydration/starvation. The world has gone mad.

And I fear that it's going to get A LOT worse.

176 posted on 02/12/2009 4:08:57 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
Rest in Peace Eluana

Thread by me on Eluana's funeral and statements by the Vatican and a pro-life doctors group.

Eluana Englaro Buried in Catholic Funeral Today, Doctors Group Condemns Death

Rome, Italy (LifeNews.com) -- Eluana Englaro, the disabled woman who was killed via a starvation and dehydration euthanasia death on Monday, will receive a Catholic burial today. Meanwhile, a Catholic doctors' group is condemning her death saying that her father was wrong to seek a court ruling to kill her.

Englaro will be buried today in a Christian ceremony despite the wishes of her father. Beppino Englaro had originally wanted Eluana cremated but he gave in to the wishes of other family members.

Beppino was not a believer and his daughter's suffering reinforced his lack of faith, but the London Times indicates other members of Elunana's family, including her uncle Armando, wanted a religious ceremony.

~snip~

Elunana's death continues to be condemned by Catholic leaders.

Father Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, said that the "sadness of the circumstances surrounding the death of Eluana Englaro must spur us on to search for effective ways to serve life."

“Eluana did not die on her own; rather she was killed by those who deprived her of food and water. Hers was certainly not a natural death," he added.

Simon Castellvi, the president of the International Federation of Associations of Catholic Doctors, also condemned the death in a statement.

“Neither as doctors, nor as Christians nor as persons can we accept what was done to Eluana. A human being can never be left without food. Eluana was alive and they killed her," he said.

“Eluana could breath, eat, swallow and smile. And now she is longer in the land of the living,” Castellvi added. “We perfectly understand the suffering of the father. Eluana was like a little child who needs to be cared for. But Eluana was alive. To deny her nourishment and sedate her to the end, when she had no pain, is simply and candidly murder."

"Nothing or nobody can justify withdrawing her nourishment and administering a sedative to her, clearly in order to mercilessly accelerate the end of her days,” the doctors group continued.

“We condemn in the strongest terms the physical elimination of Eluana and we trust the leaders of countries will see the right to life as the basis for living together in peace," the physician concluded.

"We will not be silent.
We are your bad conscience.
The White Rose will give you no rest."

177 posted on 02/12/2009 4:15:35 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: SErtelt; All
Steven Ertelt has posted a thread/story on Zero's pro-death choice for Solicitor General.

Pro-Life Groups Oppose Pro-Abortion Obama Pick for Solicitor General

Washington, DC -- Pro-life groups are up in arms about yet another pro-abortion nominee President Barack Obama has put forward for a leadership position in the Justice Department. Obama wants abortion advocate Elena Kagan to serve as Solicitor General, the attorney who represents the government before the Supreme Court. . .

178 posted on 02/12/2009 4:18:11 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; 8mmMauser
The ability of some people to lie to themselves is staggering.

Thread by me.

Priest/Catholic U President: "Abortion is Not an Infallible Teaching"

WINDSOR, Ontario, February 12, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The President of the Catholic Assumption University of Windsor told LifeSiteNews.com (LSN) in an interview today that the Catholic Church's position on abortion "is not an infallible teaching."

Fr. Paul Rennick, who is also Vice Chancellor of the school, gave the remarks when LSN sought comment regarding the school's decision to invite Cokie Roberts, a pro-abortion Catholic news analyst who has criticized the Church for preaching against homosexuality and contraception, to address the school as part of the "Christian Culture" lecture series. 

Fr. Rennick told LSN that he had "personally vetted" the selection of Roberts and chose her because she was "a woman of faith," a "well known Catholic" and "successful as an individual Christian."

LSN asked Fr. Rennick, "Do you think there is a possibility of scandal from the fact that she has professed very pro-abortion views and has criticized Catholic bishops for teaching Church doctrine on homosexuality and contraception?"  The President of the Catholic University replied, "No, I don't."

Asked to elaborate, Fr. Rennick said: "If you look at the catholic population, you'll find a whole variety of positions on all of those topics.  It seems to me that disagreement on a particular position doesn't disqualify one from being a Catholic.  Unless, of course, that position is whether Jesus is the Christ."

"Abortion is not an infallible teaching.  It never has been proclaimed infallibly," he said.  "This attempt to put everything that the Church teaches in this one set of categories, it seems to me, is not a proper Catholic position, not according to the history of our church," he added. . .

179 posted on 02/12/2009 4:21:55 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the ping!


180 posted on 02/12/2009 9:44:40 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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