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Vatican Demands Holocaust Denier Publicly Recant
New York Times ^
| February 4, 2009
| RACHEL DONADIO
Posted on 02/04/2009 4:16:31 PM PST by DeepThought42
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To: DeepThought42
UG. Holy Father, stay the course. Do not let these anti catholics sway you. You are the leader of the Catholic Church, the Barq of Peter. Not the Jews, Not the Muslims, Not the secularists. Lead your Church. Stand your ground. Please......
2
posted on
02/04/2009 4:21:29 PM PST
by
wombtotomb
(since its "above his paygrade", why can't we err on the side of caution about when life begins?)
To: DeepThought42
3
posted on
02/04/2009 4:21:42 PM PST
by
muir_redwoods
(B. O. Stinks!!!)
To: DeepThought42
Let's see now. It's more required to believe that six million died in the Nazi holocaust than it is to believe in Papal dogma infallibility??
4
posted on
02/04/2009 4:31:13 PM PST
by
ex-snook
("But above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
To: DeepThought42
I haven't been following this controversy too closely, but I don't really understand the fuss. As I understand it, the bishop is to have his excommunication annulled, but he is not to be a bishop again, is he? It's not like he'll have any position of responsibility in the church as a Holocaust denier. And excommunication is generally a matter of expressing seriously incorrect
theological views, as opposed to committing very serious sins. And the ex-bishop has apparently satisfied the Vatican that all the purely theological controversies have been resolved, leaving it to God to judge the bishop's admittedly monstrous or bizarre views on the Holocaust. Do I have this about right? I am not Catholic, as may be evident, and anyone familiar with Catholic doctrine, whether Catholic or not, who can tell me why the pope's actions are problematic would be helping me a lot.
Unless this is all just a tribalistic squabble, where members of some groups are angry that members of other groups are attacking their group. Then I understand it all too well, because such things are so common these days.
5
posted on
02/04/2009 4:44:01 PM PST
by
untenured
To: wombtotomb
Millions of Jews were slaughtered in gas chambers by the Nazi's and Hitler. To deny that as a man of God, you are being dishonest. To be dishonest about this massacre of men, women and children weakens the trust between this man and his flock and the church. If he would be dishonest about this, what else would he lie about? The church is absolutely right to demand a retraction. As a Catholic, I am disgusted how the church and the Pope have handled this thus far. If the Pope fails to lead in this time of crisis, he should be removed.
6
posted on
02/04/2009 4:44:47 PM PST
by
utahson
To: untenured
I think once he was made a Bishop, he remained a Bishop. It was that he was made a bishop by an ArchBishop without permission. In fact, the Pope had explicitly forbidden the Archbishop to do this.
7
posted on
02/04/2009 4:48:58 PM PST
by
Patriotic1
(Dic mihi solum facta, domina - Just the facts, ma'am)
To: untenured
The excommunications date back to I think 1983. The Pope has longed for a regularization of the SSPX, put things in motion with his freeing of the Latin Mass, and had moved on to the next step of unification by lifting the excommunications.
A Swedish interview with Bishop Williamson, done in Sept., was held and then released at the same time as the Pope's action.
It is being alleged, and I find it quite easy to believe, that this was done on purpose to sabotage Pope Benedict.
The exommunications were related to doctrine and obedience, had nothing to do with the statements by Williamson, who should have kept his mouth shut and has been since ordered to do just that on issues pertaining to politics and history.
8
posted on
02/04/2009 4:49:04 PM PST
by
Lorica
To: utahson
As a Catholic, I am disgusted how the church and the Pope have handled this thus far. If the Pope fails to lead in this time of crisis, he should be removed. As a Catholic, I am disugusted by your comment.
9
posted on
02/04/2009 4:49:53 PM PST
by
Lorica
To: utahson
Careful where you swing that “dishonesty” stick “utahson.” The eye you beam may be your own...
10
posted on
02/04/2009 4:53:54 PM PST
by
Philo-Junius
(One precedent creates another. They soon accumulate and constitute law.)
To: Patriotic1
So if in the eyes of the church Mr. Williamson is not and never was a bishop, and if he apparently is satisfied with that resolution of the matter, the whole controversy is whether the pope can decide that a Holocaust denier is or is not merely a member of the Church?
To: untenured
12
posted on
02/04/2009 4:56:32 PM PST
by
Lorica
To: Philo-Junius
So by denying the the slaughter of 6 million Jews he is not being dishonest?
13
posted on
02/04/2009 5:03:10 PM PST
by
utahson
To: Lorica
So if Archbishop Lefebvre made Mr. Williamson a bishop, even though it was against the instructions of the then-pope, he was in fact according to Catholic doctrine a bishop after that point, and is still now, now that his excommunication has been rescinded?
To: Lorica
So in your thinking it is okay to keep those that are dishonest within the Church and are willing to lie about well documented history?
15
posted on
02/04/2009 5:06:08 PM PST
by
utahson
To: untenured
No; in the eyes of the Church Bp Williamson is in fact a Bishop, though his consecration was illegal. This act leaves him suspended, not rehabilitated.
The whole controversy is that people who know better are playing the ‘holocaust’ card pretty heavily in their never ending war against the Roman Catholic Church.
The Pope does not have the right to excommunicate anyone based on that person’s view of historical events. It is not a tenet of the faith.
16
posted on
02/04/2009 5:08:34 PM PST
by
sobieski
To: utahson
One’s belief in a historical event is not required as part of the Catholic faith.
17
posted on
02/04/2009 5:09:54 PM PST
by
sobieski
To: utahson
So in your thinking it is okay to keep those that are dishonest within the Church and are willing to lie about well documented history? I do not think you understand the rules of excommunication. I suggest that you spend some time getting up to speed on the subject.
To: utahson
So in your thinking the Pope has failed to lead?
And do you align yourself with the extremist liberal bishops who are calling for him to step down?
19
posted on
02/04/2009 5:16:04 PM PST
by
Lorica
To: utahson
Are you really a Catholic? Because you don’t seem to know what has happened. The excommunication was lifted; this was also done for Orthodox bishops. That is a first step to start a dialogue which may or not end in the SSPX or the Orthodox returning home.
You must know that the Pope and the SSPX both repeated their statements condemning anti -semitism in all forms. Further, the SSPX has muzzled Williamson.
Here’s the facts: the excommunications are lifted, but the individuals remain suspended from their faculties under Roman Catholic law. To have suspension lifted will require much negotiation. Their organization, the SSPX is irregular under canon law.
So what, exactly, is there to be ashamed of?
But as a Catholic you already knew all this, no?
20
posted on
02/04/2009 5:16:25 PM PST
by
sobieski
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