Posted on 02/16/2009 9:46:22 AM PST by Tolik
I would agree whole heartedly. If I were king I would make reading (and memorizing) the Constituion and Declaration of Independence mandatory with the capability to write word for word a mandatory requirement before graduating high school.
I would also require extensive learning that includes both the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers, in additioni to detailed study of the history of human government.
That said, the plain text of the Constitution and it's amendments is the law of the land. There are opportunities to modify it, but there should always be caution in doing so. That is why our founding fathers made it so hard to do so. Changing the Constituional voting rights of citizens on a whim is no different than restricting the right to keep and bear arms on a whim.
I am not in objection to your goals - a citizenry that understands the brilliance and importance of our Constitution.
I object to your approach and the involvement of whoever happens to be in control of the government at the time that such training occurs. See our public school system for an example of my concerns.
It is beyond the powers allowed to the government by the Constitution. If you want to change the rules - change the Constitution via the constitutionally required process. Otherwise, please don't advocate for a buearacracy to decide what counts or doesn't count for boot camp,--
Straw man anyone? -- I'm not 'advocating' any such bureaucracy.
-- I'm advocating that we can have a boot camp type training program, [probably run by our military establishment] That would teach constitutional values to our young people, prior to enabling them to vote..
I am not in objection to your goals - a citizenry that understands the brilliance and importance of our Constitution.
I object to your approach and the involvement of whoever happens to be in control of the government at the time that such training occurs.
Do you really think that constitutional training/education within our military establishment is influenced by " -- whoever happens to be in control of the government -"?
Get real.
“Any society unwilling to use violent force to defend liberty deserves the tyrants that rule them.”
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson
Would you have full faith if BHO appointed Wesley Clark, retired general, to establish the cirriculum?
Get real.
I'm trying. But I am also trying to reconcile your thoughts that only those who serve should have the right to vote. Does that only apply to military service? Does it apply to civil servants - they are in effect serving, just not in the armed services.
Maybe I just fundamental can't reconcile your position on the issue with my understanding of how our nation was founded. I believe that our nation would be better off under a very strict interpretation and implementation of the Constitution. Tinkering around with it, voting rights, etc., just comes off to me as one more attempt to fix or improve on a fundamental document that doesn't need fixing - just enforced.
Agree to disagree - take care.
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Thanks neverdem. Plato's Republic mentioned, so a definite GGG ping topic. |
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As a mother, I’m pulling my strength from the generations of my husband’s Polish ancestors who lived through centuries of oppression, but yet managed to keep their cultural society intact through it all. I think that’s where we’re headed at this point. I don’t think there are enough people ready to “learn the easy way”, and alas, that means the rest of us will suffer as they instead learn the hard way. Eventually, the tide will turn back, and it is THEN that we must be ready. In the meantime, we will have to go “underground” in one way or another, and keep teaching future generations the TRUTH to combat what will for SURE be a revisionist plan for brainwashing when it comes to Liberty, Freedom, Justice, Morality, etc...
Has an actual date been announced yet? If so, you may wish to update your info. to include it.
Chilling.
The Republic is all over but the shouting. The reason why is apparently not obvious, since few mention it, but it is there plain as day for all to see
The Founders warned against granting the Franchise to non freeholders and those under 21.
Over the past 90 years their advice went unheeded and it is these very groups that are responsible for the election of the socialists who have destroyed the country a State at a time.
This doesn’t get solved at the ballot box.
This doesn’t get solved by continuing to allow imbeciles, welfare recipients, convicts, children,and most importantly, PEOPLE WHO DON’T PAY TAXES, to vote.
When it hits the fan (most likely in the aftermath of a major WMD attack) its going to be bloody, quick, and a real shock to the marxists riding high today.
There will be a provisional military government and homosexual socialist crooks like Barney Frank will be SOL.
And only freeholders and veterans will once again be entrusted with the franchise.
ping for later
Thomas Jefferson
BFL
Straw man that my 'approach' allows such political control.
Do you really think that constitutional training/education within our military establishment is influenced by " -- whoever happens to be in control of the government."
Get real.
I'm trying. But I am also trying to reconcile your thoughts that only those who serve should have the right to vote. Does that only apply to military service? Does it apply to civil servants - they are in effect serving, just not in the armed services.
It applies to those who volunteer at 18 -- to attend a 'boot camp' on our constitutional principles, agreeing to support and defend those principles.
Maybe I just fundamental can't reconcile your position on the issue with my understanding of how our nation was founded.
Why do you argue that 'my position' is at odds with how our nation was founded? -- Do you have any concept of how silly you make yourself look by using such tar-baby tactics?
I believe that our nation would be better off under a very strict interpretation and implementation of the Constitution.
So do I.
Tinkering around with it, voting rights, etc., just comes off to me as one more attempt to fix or improve on a fundamental document that doesn't need fixing - just enforced. Agree to disagree?
Sorry' no sale. - Your effort to claim that I'm 'tinkering' is a disagreeable method..
Incredible article. Thank you.
How does it not? Again - since you skipped it last time - what if Clark was in charge of the training?
Get real.
Maybe you should. When, ever, has granting power to the federal government regarding educating our children been a good idea.
Get real in deed.
Why do you argue that 'my position' is at odds with how our nation was founded?
Because it is direct conflict with the Constitution as it currently stands.
Sorry' no sale. - Your effort to claim that I'm 'tinkering' is a disagreeable method..
Then we will agree to be disagreeable - fine by me. You want boot camps to qualify for citizenship or the right to vote - then do the things necessary to get that into the Constitution and I will then agree with you.
Absent that, your idea is not in line with the Constitution, at least my opinion of it. Maybe in the world of a "living" Constitution where it is open to interpretation of the day, but unless you formally amend it, your boot camps as a qualifier are not Constitutional.
Good Luck.
Straw man that my 'approach' allows such political control.
Again, since you skipped it last time - what if Clark was in charge of the training?
Again.. -- Do you really think that constitutional training/education within our military establishment is influenced by " -- whoever happens to be in control of the government."
Get real.
Maybe you should. When, ever, has granting power to the federal government regarding educating our children been a good idea. Get real in deed.
Passing a amendment to qualify voters is not "granting power" to the feds. You really can't debate without using the 'straw man' technique, can you..
I'm trying. But I am also trying to reconcile your thoughts that only those who serve should have the right to vote. Does that only apply to military service? Does it apply to civil servants - they are in effect serving, just not in the armed services.
It applies to those who volunteer at 18 -- to attend a 'boot camp' on our constitutional principles, agreeing to support and defend those principles.
Maybe I just fundamental can't reconcile your position on the issue with my understanding of how our nation was founded.
Why do you argue that 'my position' is at odds with how our nation was founded? -- Do you have any concept of how silly you make yourself look by using such tar-baby tactics?
Because it is direct conflict with the Constitution as it currently stands.
Silly comment, seeing that I'm proposing changing our constitution, - about voting..
I believe that our nation would be better off under a very strict interpretation and implementation of the Constitution.
So do I.
Tinkering around with it, voting rights, etc., just comes off to me as one more attempt to fix or improve on a fundamental document that doesn't need fixing - just enforced. Agree to disagree?
Sorry' no sale. - Your effort to claim that I'm 'tinkering' is a disagreeable method..
Then we will agree to be disagreeable - fine by me. You want boot camps to qualify for citizenship or the right to vote - then do the things necessary to get that into the Constitution and I will then agree with you.
My proposal is part of "the things necessary to get that into the Constitution".. Read much?
Absent that, your idea is not in line with the Constitution, at least my opinion of it. Maybe in the world of a "living" Constitution where it is open to interpretation of the day, but unless you formally amend it, your boot camps as a qualifier are not Constitutional. Good Luck.
You seem stuck with the 'straw man' that I'm opposed to amending the constitution.. -- Get over it..
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