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Clearing away the smoke [Republican Christian on Medical Marijuana]
The Timberjay Newspapers ^ | Friday, February 20, 2009 | Scott Stowell

Posted on 02/20/2009 6:14:14 PM PST by Gondring

Ely photographer K.K. Forss is using words rather than a camera to offer a picture of what his life is like without medical marijuana. Forss traveled to the State Capitol to testify in support of medical marijuana legislation at a Senate Health, Housing and Family Security Committee hearing on Wednesday.

Medical marijuana use has been a political issue in Minnesota since the mid-nineties. The bill is currently being sponsored in the House by Rep. Tom Rukavina (DFL-Virginia). A five member bipartisan group is pushing it in the Senate.

Last year, though the legislation passed in the Senate, it did not make it through the House by the end of the session.

Among the arguments against the bill, opponents say it will muddle enforcement of current drug laws. Medical privacy laws will make maintaining law enforcement databases impossible. The definition of caregivers who can legally transport the substance would become vague. Children who live in the homes of patients using the drug would have easier access to it.

But Forss said he tried to show another side of the story at the hearing. He began by telling the committee about his life before using marijuana to ease severe chronic pain.

In May 2004, he went to the Twin Cities to meet with the publisher of a book of his photographs. The next morning, he said he woke to the worst pain in his life. He had surgery that day for a ruptured disk in his neck that also permanently damaged his spinal cord.

He had experienced a rare genetic condition that would not allow the condition to repair. Eight months later he had another surgery in which doctors tried to rebuild the damaged parts. It was the next in string of surgeries.

“This has been almost five years of hell. I’ve got more surgeries coming up, at least two,” he said.

Forss said the more his arm moves the worse the pain becomes. But he still needs to move it somewhat or it will “die off.”

The “blur of medications” he is taking compounds the problem.

As an overview, Forss said he can’t sleep more than an hour at a time with the pain, so he takes two muscle relaxants throughout the day. One is methadone, a drug sometimes prescribed for heroin addicts. He also wears fentanyl patches that last 72 hours for extreme pain management. Every three months he receives spinal cord injections.

Constipation and vomiting are among the side effects. When he becomes hot in summer, he loses 25-30 pounds as a result. In winter, he gains it back. The vomiting also makes his arm spasms worse.

Some of the medications affect his heart, so he takes further prescriptions to slow his heart rate and treat heartburn. An increase in blood pressure and cholesterol are part of the mix, too.

In addition, the heavy medication has caused the teeth on the sides of his lower jaw to completely crumble.

Forss has tried a variety of alternative treatments. These include two surgeries at the Mayo Clinic for further opinions, electric stimulation, ultrasound, chiropractic treatment, aromatherapy, cortisone shots, counseling for depression and pain management, acupuncture, and acupuncture with electric current, which he said was horrible and doesn’t recommend.

When he travels he said he feels every seam in the road. But going to the hearing was important.

“You have to believe you’ll get your life back at some point,” he said. “I don’t really have much quality of life any more.”

However, he said marijuana helps reverse the snowball effect of the medications he’s currently taking and creates a different snowball effect in a good direction.

He can sleep six to seven hours a night without heavy sleeping medications. When he sleeps without moving, the muscle spasms ease.

Along with reducing pain, the marijuana cuts down on his need for other medications. He said that’s easier on his heart, and less costly for him and taxpayers. His medications are paid for through the Medical Assistance Program because he’s listed as completely disabled.

As for protecting children from access to medical marijuana, Forss said the patients who would be placed in the program already secure the medications they have around their homes.

“It would be less harmful for [a child] to ingest the marijuana than any of those meds,” he said. “If they took a handful of any of my meds, they’d be dead.”

Another part of his motivation for supporting medical marijuana derives from societal perspectives.

He said the issue is often seen as a Democrat versus Republican debate. However, he labels himself as a Republican Christian.

“I’m frustrated to death with the way the Christian community sees the word ‘marijuana’ and immediately turns away,” he said.

Forss noted that marijuana has historically been used around the world for medical purposes for centuries. The Minnesota Nurses Association, Minnesota Public Health Association, Minnesota Senior Federation and the American College of Physicians are among its current supporters.

“The whole thing about the medical marijuana bill is to let doctors make the decisions again,” Forss said. “We trust them to open our bodies up, trust them to give us radiation or chemotherapy. I don’t understand why we can’t trust them with [marijuana].”

Forss’ testimony on Wednesday was one of several from medical marijuana patients. They appear to have had an effect. The House committee took the first step toward final legislation, voting 9-6 in support of medical marijuana bill.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Minnesota
KEYWORDS: lp; lping; marijuana; medicalmarijuana; medicinalmarijuana; neuropathicpain; tobaccogoodpotbad; wod; wodlist
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Marijuana can help some people a lot and I wish we could get past the other issues so people in distress could get relief.
1 posted on 02/20/2009 6:14:14 PM PST by Gondring
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To: Gondring

The tide is slowly turning on this.


2 posted on 02/20/2009 6:20:14 PM PST by Mr. Blonde (You ever thought about being weird for a living?)
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To: Gondring

I also. I feel for the people who legitimately need it for medical purposes.

I don’t care what any pot smoker says, it does change a personality.
It may calm but it can cause agitation just as easy.

Besides it makes people act stupidly silly and they can just as easy try something else for “fun”.


3 posted on 02/20/2009 6:20:37 PM PST by TribalPrincess2U (Welcome to Obama's America... Be afraid, be very afraid)
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To: Gondring

So do I.
Marijuana was the only thing that gave my cousin relief from the unrelenting nausea of chemo.


4 posted on 02/20/2009 6:22:53 PM PST by SoKatt ("Change" is not a strategy!)
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To: Gondring

Marijuana was made illegal in 1935 by FDR, just one more of that a-hole’s disastrous policies that we’ve been forced to deal with down to the present day.


5 posted on 02/20/2009 6:25:49 PM PST by eclecticEel (Wall Street isn't a charity ... so why are we giving them money?)
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To: Gondring

Can someone explain to me why tobacco and alcohol are legal, but medical marijuana is illegal? The medical marijunana issue left a black mark on the Bush presidency and the liberal justices that enabled the DEA to violate states’ rights.


6 posted on 02/20/2009 6:26:57 PM PST by WheresMyBailout
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To: Gondring

Interesting that the article mentions fentanyl. I remember reading an article a few years back about fentanyl “popsicles” and the potential for abuse, including off-label prescriptions and possible issues involving its marketing.


7 posted on 02/20/2009 6:32:29 PM PST by Cu Roi
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To: WheresMyBailout

OK, it’s time for all the usual FReeper libertarians to come out of the woodwork for medical marijuana, which if I am not mistaken is SMOKED, with all the attendant hazards to one’s lungs.

All together now, “There is no pain reliever EVER produced by medical and pharmaceutical science that is as effective as smoking marijuana!” Go ahead, proclaim it to the heavens.

I’m in the Reserves. Tomorrow morning, more than likely I will have to stand observed and pee in the bottle to prove my innocence of not having used an illegal drug.

Therefore I really have no pity for marijuana smokers of any stripe. Oh, I forgot to add, I’m in the JAG Corps and I process the paperwork to separate those who “popped hot”.

So flame away.


8 posted on 02/20/2009 7:02:29 PM PST by elcid1970 ("O Muslim! My cartridges are lubricated with pig grease!")
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To: Mr. Blonde

“The tide is slowly turning on this.”

I certainly hope so. With few exceptions, this is the story of my life.


9 posted on 02/20/2009 7:13:01 PM PST by Kimberly GG (Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda been HUNTER.)
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To: elcid1970

When they make owning a gun a crime will you turn yours in?


10 posted on 02/20/2009 7:13:10 PM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: elcid1970

No victim, no crime. Does “The Emperor Wears No Clothes” convey a message of fraud or what.

This story is linked at JackHerer.com and people that somehow think that we are on the right path really need to read the online edition of “The Emperor Wears No Clothes.”

Hemp/cannabis prohibition is so wrong, they won’t let anyone get on television and call it a fraud and demand a cost-benefit analysis of a prohibition policy that does not even prohibit- thank goodness.

You may know law, but you surely do not know justice. The harms of cannabis come from the laws with a big part of that being letting the greatest medicinal plant in the history of man do its job.

Cannabis prohibition is a crime against humanity and mass murder and you either understand it or you don’t. Be sure and watch Run From The Cure at JackHerer.com. He also has a YouTube channel, JackHererTV, that has some eyewitness testimony.

As Jack Herer says using the extensive Jamaican studies, if you use hemp everyday morning, noon, and night you will live two years longer and live a healthier and happy life with that.

“If and when impediments to medical marijuana use are removed and the American people begin to avail themselves of it en masse, the pharmaceutical manufacturers will lose a third or more of their sales.”== Fred Gardner at http://counterpunch.org/gardner02042009.html

Free Pot.
Legalize it already.


11 posted on 02/20/2009 7:15:44 PM PST by poodle
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To: elcid1970

“Tomorrow morning, more than likely I will have to stand observed and pee in the bottle to prove my innocence of not having used an illegal drug.”

Just think - once upon a time you would have been a free man in a free country.

What a sorry pass we have come to.


12 posted on 02/20/2009 7:17:17 PM PST by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism.)
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To: elcid1970

I won’t flame you, I’ll just say....but for the Grace of God go you...


13 posted on 02/20/2009 7:20:30 PM PST by Kimberly GG (Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda been HUNTER.)
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To: Gondring

Banning medical marijuana is ridiculous.


14 posted on 02/20/2009 7:22:00 PM PST by mysterio
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To: WheresMyBailout

Too much $$$ being made on the marijuana drug trade.


15 posted on 02/20/2009 7:22:25 PM PST by Kimberly GG (Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda been HUNTER.)
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To: Gondring
You can't get more natural than pot. You can get coca and opium in prescriptions, why not reefer?
16 posted on 02/20/2009 7:27:45 PM PST by BallyBill (Serial Hit-N-Run poster)
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To: Gondring

Some people really want to know who to listen too on medical pot. Dr. Lester Grinspoon was is the grandfather of cannabis researchers and he has two websites of interest. One is http://rxmarijuana.com/ where after you enter you can type in your ailment to get testimony of people that have used cannabis for their ailment. The other is the uses website at http://marijuana-uses.com/

Dr. Grinspoon has a wonderful blog entry at his uses page that is very well stated and it goes hand in hand with an hour long interview of telling his story of researching cannabis as medicine. It really is wonderful. It is too wonderful for television, that is for sure.

Grinspoon podcast from June of 2008 = http://rabble.ca/podcasts/shows/living-purpose/episode-127-lester-grinspoon-md

Granny Storm Crow Master List is something that might interest the hard core. It collect research by disease- http://medicalmarijuanapatient.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65


17 posted on 02/20/2009 7:41:08 PM PST by poodle
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To: elcid1970
OK, it’s time for all the usual FReeper libertarians to come out of the woodwork for medical marijuana, which if I am not mistaken is SMOKED, with all the attendant hazards to one’s lungs.

So is tobacco.

All together now, “There is no pain reliever EVER produced by medical and pharmaceutical science that is as effective as smoking marijuana!” Go ahead, proclaim it to the heavens.

Americans should not have the federal government, in contravention of both the state government and the doctor, intervene in their medical decisions.

I’m in the Reserves. Tomorrow morning, more than likely I will have to stand observed and pee in the bottle to prove my innocence of not having used an illegal drug.

Many private sector employers also have drug tests.

Therefore I really have no pity for marijuana smokers of any stripe. Oh, I forgot to add, I’m in the JAG Corps and I process the paperwork to separate those who “popped hot”.

I have no objection to marijuana smokers facing a dishonorable discharge. You seem to be muddling up the issue of recreational drug use and medical marijuana use.

So flame away.

No flames here, just discussion.
18 posted on 02/20/2009 7:50:14 PM PST by WheresMyBailout
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To: WheresMyBailout

Because marijuana is a political drug, just like aids is a political disease.

No doubt the “medical” part of medical marijuana is abused by some, but if it produces relief in those suffering the effects of chemo and cancer, what kind of person would withhold it?


19 posted on 02/20/2009 7:55:27 PM PST by Phillipian
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To: elcid1970
"So flame away".

What's to flame? You made absolutely NO ARGUMENT TO SUPPORT THE CONTINUED BAN!

Just who's the dunce here?

20 posted on 02/20/2009 8:23:24 PM PST by Mariner
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To: Gondring
There's no such thing as "medical" marijuana. It's like saying there's "medical" beer. Sure it will make you feel good and deaden your pain, but the side effects far outweigh the benefits, it any.

Nope. The whole concept of "medical" marijuana only exists because the people that are hooked on getting stoned want to be able to do it without getting punished. Their addiction is such that they will risk their families, their freedom and their finances to keep smoking dope.

21 posted on 02/20/2009 8:31:25 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: Gondring

Legalize pot and then tax the finished products that are manufactured with it.


22 posted on 02/20/2009 8:52:00 PM PST by acliffhang3r
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To: elcid1970

Do you know why cannabis was made illegal? If you’re in the JAG Corps you are an intelligent individual - educate yourself:

Racism (number one reason)
Fear
Protection of Corporate Profits (certainly you jest)
Yellow Journalism (what, here in America)
Ignorant, Incompetent, and/or Corrupt Legislators (no way)
Personal Career Advancement and Greed

http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/12/22/whyIsMarijuanaIllegal.html

Check out the link and after reading the truth, go have yourself a beer.


23 posted on 02/20/2009 9:25:59 PM PST by USAF70 (America is not 'governed' by the President or Congress. America is governed by the U.S.Constitution.)
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To: DouglasKC

Then what is the International Association for Cannabis as Medicine doing- http://www.cannabis-med.org/english/nav/home-bulletin.htm

And how about all these organizations and websites- http://www.cannabis-med.org/science/links-pat.htm

and what about all this talk at Medpot.net- http://medpot.net/forums//index.php?s=8adb362d36492e97f2940be663235a3e&showforum=13

Just what do you think they are doing? Have you ever heard of Sativex?


24 posted on 02/20/2009 9:57:36 PM PST by poodle
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To: DouglasKC
Sure it will make you feel good and deaden your pain, but the side effects far outweigh the benefits, it any.

Tell that to my friend who couldn't walk at times without it.

The whole concept of "medical" marijuana only exists because the people that are hooked on getting stoned want to be able to do it without getting punished. Their addiction is such that they will risk their families, their freedom and their finances to keep smoking dope.

If she was so "addicted" to it, then why did she use it only about once a year, when her symptoms got bad?

Sorry, but regardless of whether or not there are fakers out there, the truth is that there are people for whom it is a Godsend.

25 posted on 02/20/2009 10:40:23 PM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Gondring
Bump to read and comment on later. Just remember that the War On Drugs is really the war on We The People.
26 posted on 02/20/2009 10:50:58 PM PST by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Phillipian

Oxycontin is abused by people all the time as well. I don’t hear a lot of calls to ban it. All things considered I would guess Oxycontin could probably be worse for you than marijuana.


27 posted on 02/21/2009 12:02:10 AM PST by Mr. Blonde (You ever thought about being weird for a living?)
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To: Gondring
Sure it will make you feel good and deaden your pain, but the side effects far outweigh the benefits, it any.
Tell that to my friend who couldn't walk at times without it.

Are you saying she's able to walk but it's too painful to do so without smoking pot? Or that she's not able to walk but pot miraculously cures her and allows her to walk?

The whole concept of "medical" marijuana only exists because the people that are hooked on getting stoned want to be able to do it without getting punished. Their addiction is such that they will risk their families, their freedom and their finances to keep smoking dope.
If she was so "addicted" to it, then why did she use it only about once a year, when her symptoms got bad?

Beats me. I don't have near enough information about your "friend" to make an educated guess about her motivations for smoking pot.

Sorry, but regardless of whether or not there are fakers out there, the truth is that there are people for whom it is a Godsend.

I'm sure there are people that believe that. Pot is pretty seductive. Those who smoke it think all kinds of things. They think it makes them think clearly. They think it makes food taste better. They think it makes them more spiritual. They think it makes them love more. It's a miracle I tell ya.

28 posted on 02/21/2009 4:28:16 AM PST by DouglasKC
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To: poodle
Then what is the International Association for Cannabis as Medicine doing- http://www.cannabis-med.org/english/nav/home-bulletin.htm

Apparently collecting money from gullible people. I can become a member of the International Association for Cannabis as Medicine by coughing up some Euros. And I'm not even a doctor!

And how about all these organizations and websites- http://www.cannabis-med.org/science/links-pat.htm and what about all this talk at Medpot.net- http://medpot.net/forums//index.php?s=8adb362d36492e97f2940be663235a3e&showforum=13

Most, if not all, of these types of organizations are funded by radical leftists such as George Soros. You should be asking yourself why are all these leftists are so eager to get pot legalized?

Just what do you think they are doing? Have you ever heard of Sativex?

I gotta give the drug companies credit on this one. They're going to make a lot of money on people who want to spray pot in their mouths in Canada. Luckily our politicians have seen the wisdom in keeping this farce out of the US. But hey, give Obama a couple months. He's never seen a leftist cause that he won't embrace.

29 posted on 02/21/2009 4:40:40 AM PST by DouglasKC
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To: Mr. Blonde

Never tried either one, but what you say makes sense.


30 posted on 02/21/2009 5:16:23 AM PST by Phillipian
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To: Gondring
If we legalize cannabis, we need to regulate it like we regulate alcoholic beverages and tobacco. This has a couple of advantages:

1. Cannabis will be of consistent quality, with standardized THC levels per gram.
2. We weed out (pun intended!) all the cannabis dealers who put in potential dangerous additives into the cannabis.
3. It would tremendously cut down on a lot of illegal criminal activity.

In short, it would be like ending the Prohibition, especially given the problems with poor quality and sometimes poisonous alcoholic drinks of that period!

31 posted on 02/21/2009 5:30:52 AM PST by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
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To: DouglasKC
Or that she's not able to walk but pot miraculously cures her and allows her to walk?

From what I understand, the muscles won't relax (whether spasms or just tightened up, I don't know exactly) and allow her to walk. Since pharmaceutical muscle relaxants don't work (or knock her out rather than allow her to walk), I guess you could call it miraculous, but that's just a semantic point.

Beats me. I don't have near enough information about your "friend" to make an educated guess about her motivations for smoking pot.

Yet you presumed to, in your previous post.

Pot is pretty seductive. Those who smoke it think all kinds of things.

I wouldn't know; I've never tried to stuff.

But that does not precludes competence in commenting on the topic.

32 posted on 02/21/2009 5:31:35 AM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Gondring
From what I understand, the muscles won't relax (whether spasms or just tightened up, I don't know exactly) and allow her to walk. Since pharmaceutical muscle relaxants don't work (or knock her out rather than allow her to walk), I guess you could call it miraculous, but that's just a semantic point.

And has she had scientific testing to determine whether this is a placebo effect? That's what it sounds like to me. People hear about this "miracle" marijuana, smoke it, get high and all of sudden anything is possible.

Beats me. I don't have near enough information about your "friend" to make an educated guess about her motivations for smoking pot. Yet you presumed to, in your previous post.

Sorry, I should have expanded my definition of proponents of medical marijuana.

1. Those who like to smoke pot and want to do so legally.
2. Leftists who want to legalize pot to hasten the demise of a faith based, capitalistic society.
3. Those who have been duped by the first two groups.

I wouldn't know; I've never tried to stuff. But that does not precludes competence in commenting on the topic.

I guess not. But keep in mind that it's not harmless and it's not the miracle cure the left tries to convince us it is.

33 posted on 02/21/2009 5:47:27 AM PST by DouglasKC
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To: USAF70

To refresh, I’m the JAG guy (not an attorney) who does admin separation boards for those who “pop hot”.

The responses are not as angry as I expected. But I would submit that there are long term consequences of marijuana use that have not been discussed on this thread.

Some out there view decriminalization as some moral crusade.

No one has speculated as to why medical marijuana is always smoked. Can’t THC be synthesized and given in doses like any other medication? Or is it just more fun to smoke it?

Me, I quit smoking cigarettes because of what tobacco does to the lungs. If tobacco smoke is harmful, marijuana smoke must be as well.

And I really can’t fathom why racism is a factor in keeping marijuana illegal. My mental picture of a typical pot smoker is a spoiled white college kid.

Anyway, I have intruded upon the libertarian devotional thread. I apologize, take my leave, and will go pour myself some whiskey as soon as the sun goes down.

;^)


34 posted on 02/21/2009 6:57:51 AM PST by elcid1970 ("O Muslim! My cartridges are lubricated with pig grease!")
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To: Abathar; Abcdefg; Abram; Abundy; akatel; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; Alexander Rubin; Allerious; ...



Libertarian ping! Click here to get added or here to be removed or post a message here!
35 posted on 02/21/2009 7:14:05 AM PST by bamahead (Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master. -- Sallust)
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To: DouglasKC

You are a fine example of the reasoning of people that support the fraud of pot prohibition. That is some really far out conspiracy theory. Can I ask you a direct question? Have you ever visited JackHerer.com or even heard of his book “The Emperor Wears No Clothes?

For people that really have intellectual curiousity on cannabis/hemp/marijuana/Sacred Grass, reading that online edition is is an act of responsible citizenship in opposition to the ignorance that lets the absurdity of pot prohibition stand: http://jackherer.com/chapters.html

Cannabis prohibition violates fundamental conservative values as William Buckley often wrote at the National Review and there is no conservative principle that calls for fraud and a propaganda ministry in the ONDCP that is required by law to lie: http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2007/10/09/theDrugCzarIsRequiredByLaw.html

Alcohol prohibition was a sincere policy that came out of trying to minimize the harms that came with alcohol after the distilled spirits became popular after the Revolution. It took a hundred years for supporters to get their shot and not to long to find out that that there was no way to prohibit what the public wanted and all prohibition was doing was adding violence, crime, and corruption of government to the harms of alcohol use, plus the federal government lost a big part of its revenue.

The thing about hemp prohibition was that there was no outcry for it or even any problem, especially that hemp crop on the farmers field. It has always been a fraud and the fraud since the beginning is well told in “The History of the Non-Medical Use of Drugs in the United States”: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/History/whiteb1.htm


36 posted on 02/21/2009 7:43:41 AM PST by poodle
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To: Kimberly GG
Too much $$$ being made on the marijuana drug trade.

On both sides of the badge...

37 posted on 02/21/2009 7:58:03 AM PST by cryptical (The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.)
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To: DouglasKC
And has she had scientific testing to determine whether this is a placebo effect? That's what it sounds like to me.

Nope, but does that really matter? Setting aside the "seems like it" (baseless speculation) comment, it works, and she's a very bright woman who doesn't seem to have received any detrimental effects, hasn't gone on to other drugs, rarely uses it, isn't causing others harm, etc.

People hear about this "miracle" marijuana, smoke it, get high and all of sudden anything is possible.

I'm guessing that she first tried marijuana recreationally, but discovered it helped her medically.

As for the rest of your post, I still see nothing backing up your contention.

38 posted on 02/21/2009 8:15:17 AM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: poodle
You are a fine example of the reasoning of people that support the fraud of pot prohibition

Thank you and I mean that.

Can I ask you a direct question? Have you ever visited JackHerer.com or even heard of his book “The Emperor Wears No Clothes?

I did just visit jackherer.com and I feel like I went back to the 70's. Even worse, it's irresponsible idiots like Jack Herer who propagate drug use among children. From his website:

Gee...that's pretty funny to have a character from a children's book smoking dope. Oh wait, it's better. Here's an excerpt from a cute little poem that goes with the image:

I offer buds and hash for free, There is no benefit to me. Someone said that that you were sick, green buds and hash might do the trick. If you find you're getting thinner, With no appetite for dinner, Or you suffer from sclerosis, Epilepsy or neuroses, For almost all the ills that ail ya, buds and hash will never fail ya. Have glaucoma? PMS? Green buds and hash have much success. For protection against strokes, Its best to have some potent tokes. If your muscles are not dandy, Try some green bud infused candy. For migraines, spasms, even cancer, Green buds and hash provide the answer. If you are not feeling right, Then have green buds and hash tonight.

Wow...apparently pot can cure nearly anything. Oh, and in case you missed it "If your muscles are not dandy, Try some green bud infused candy." Let's brainwash some more kids into a life of drug abuse.

There is so much pro-drug propaganda on that website that it's ridiculous. Do you think Jack would be all for manufacturing things out of hemp if they bred THC free hemp? Somehow I don't think so.

39 posted on 02/21/2009 8:32:04 AM PST by DouglasKC
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To: Gondring
And has she had scientific testing to determine whether this is a placebo effect? That's what it sounds like to me.
Nope, but does that really matter? Setting aside the "seems like it" (baseless speculation) comment, it works, and she's a very bright woman who doesn't seem to have received any detrimental effects, hasn't gone on to other drugs, rarely uses it, isn't causing others harm, etc.

Well if it doesn't matter then why don't we get a bunch of propagandists to make some kind of super secret sugar pill and push the notion that it will cure everything "medical" marijuana does?

As for not causing others harm is she doing it legally or illegally?

I'm guessing that she first tried marijuana recreationally, but discovered it helped her medically.

No it didn't. She THINKS it helps her. There's a big difference between that and actual medicinal effects.

As for the rest of your post, I still see nothing backing up your contention.

What part?

40 posted on 02/21/2009 8:36:39 AM PST by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC

You are a work of art alright. Too bad you did not have a chance to straighten out Buckley. You are a big help to my cause. Please tell us more.

I sure wish you did not believe 1 + 1 = 2. It might give us a clue into how you come up with what you have said.

How about comparing Ambien to the theoretical Free Cannabis we would have if prohibition did not bastardize everything down to the definition of liberty. Are you going to say cannabis won’t help you sleep? Can you admit it is non-toxic ? Even if both equal in safety, which anyone should know that is far from the truth, how would you say something that cost a bunch of money is better than something that is free? Maybe you can tell us how much that Ambien cost and give us the warning label and some horror stories.

Please respond. You are a real trip.


16. Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest
therapeutically active substances known to man. — DEA Administrative Law Judge Francis Young at http://tinyurl.com/cem8y3


41 posted on 02/21/2009 9:11:23 AM PST by poodle
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To: poodle
You are a work of art alright. Too bad you did not have a chance to straighten out Buckley. You are a big help to my cause. Please tell us more.

Buckley, like many well meaning conservatives, was duped by leftist propaganda that used words like "freedom" and "states rights" and "liberty" to push drug legalization. It's standard leftist rhetoric to get sinful activities legalized. It works every time it's tried in an immoral or amoral or when government is controlled by immoral or amoral people. Look at abortion and pornography for the playbook here.

Any honest libertarian would have to support the legality of these issues. Do you?

How about comparing Ambien to the theoretical Free Cannabis we would have if prohibition did not bastardize everything down to the definition of liberty. Are you going to say cannabis won’t help you sleep?

Drinking 6 beers will make you sleep but that doesn't mean it's good medicine. Try again.

Can you admit it is non-toxic

No because it's not. Your bodies reaction to it, the "high" means that your body is trying to cope with a poison, a toxin, that has been introduced to it.

16. Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. — DEA Administrative Law Judge Francis Young at http://tinyurl.com/cem8y3

Oh good. Since you want to quote a DEA lawyer I'll quote the DEA website:

Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers do, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illnesses, a heightened risk of lung infections, and a greater tendency toward obstructed airways. Cancer of the respiratory tract and lungs may also be promoted by marijuana smoke. Marijuana has the potential to promote cancer of the lungs and other parts of the respiratory tract because marijuana smoke contains 50 percent to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke.(8) Marijuana's damage to short-term memory seems to occur because THC alters the way in which information is processed by the hippocampus, a brain area responsible for memory formation. In one study, researchers compared marijuana smoking and nonsmoking 12th-graders' scores on standardized tests of verbal and mathematical skills. Although all of the students had scored equally well in 4th grade, those who were heavy marijuana smokers, i.e., those who used marijuana seven or more times per week, scored significantly lower in 12th grade than nonsmokers. Another study of 129 college students found that among heavy users of marijuana critical skills related to attention, memory, and learning were significantly impaired, even after they had not used the drug for at least 24 hours.(9)

For those of you interested in more harmful effects of pot you can find it here.

Look fast though. The toker in chief is going to have his minions pushing "medical" marijuana harder than ever and it's only a matter of time until all government agencies lose their teeth.

42 posted on 02/21/2009 9:23:21 AM PST by DouglasKC
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To: elcid1970

Cannabis is not always smoked and a big part of the reason it is comes from prohibition itself. Because paraphernalia is illegal the use of vaporizers is driven from practice. Now plenty of people do use vaporizers that use it medically and one thing it does besides removing the harshness of delivery is that it saves lots of money.

Even in “Run From The Cure” Rick Simpson talks about combustion as a destroyer of the cannabis medicine. In Holland they sell plenty of magic food products in the coffee shops and cannabutter is an everyday solution to an injestion method. When it is legal, it will be seeped in alcohol and drank like. Sativex is a cannabis tincture that is concentrated so that alcohol does not really enter the delivery method equation. Muslims are not to drink alcohol, but this is meant to overcome regard it as consumption of alcohol.

Anyone in the black market is not going to want recreational users using vaporizers either. There is a real sadness that extends beyond reducing coughs, which is helped by weak pot dominating supply, and that is what it has done to tobacco users.

Tobacco could be vaporized too. It would mean a cheaper habit and a much better delivery method, but it would also be the first break in a well established habit that people ritual through in their consumption. One of the great gifts the cannabis community has to the world is a delivery device that would be of great benefit to tobacco users and their families.

If anyone ever does do a cost-benefit analysis of cannabis prohbition, this is one great cost that is imposed on us with this fraud.

If you read JackHerer or watch his YouTube channel, you will hear him say that consuming cannabis morning, noon, and night will let you live two years longer. What people are trying to tell you is that they find cannabis use beneficial.

But to say that the greatest medicinal plant on the face of the earth that has been used before recorded history has no place in health, is way, way, way absurd even if you do not see it.

But keep talking. You are a demonstation in what a lifetime of propaganda can do to the human mind. But whatever you do, don’t read anything with a desire to really know. Keep slugging away.

Why can’t we have this conversation on television? Well, if it made television hemp would be legal and we would see government as criminal enterprise, as in you cannot put the word sweet on Stevia. You know about the corruption behind prohibiting Stevia too don’t you?

And if you do not see cannabis as the greatest medicinal plant on earth, just what is your champion plant?


43 posted on 02/21/2009 9:34:20 AM PST by poodle
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To: DouglasKC

Propaganda.

There has never been a case of lung cancer attributed to cannabis use.

If you want to talk harm, it is simple. The harms come from the laws. That is what everybody is trying to get through to the television minds and authority worshipers. Go down to the courthouse or jail and ask someone how the law messed up their life. Everyone that buys cannabis gets robbed because of government policy which is the greatest of tyrannies no matter that some are blind to the fact.

Tell us the harms that come from the laws all the way to the prison slavery and the corruption of our police and “justice” system. Where is that link if you want to talk about harm.

I agree. Pot can cause slavery and that slavery is some bad, bad shite.


44 posted on 02/21/2009 9:41:22 AM PST by poodle
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To: DouglasKC

You do not know the definition of toxic. Are you being paid to put this up or do you really believe this stuff?

Cannab is toxic? Just how wrong can you get? Where is the first body that resulted from cannabis toxicity? How do you get off saying something is toxic when it has not produced on death?

I wish you devoted your energy to reducing the harms of sugar consumption. That sugar is the biggest substance abuse problem we have.


45 posted on 02/21/2009 9:56:23 AM PST by poodle
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To: Gondring

The Canadian Senate Select Committee was the last big governmental study on cannabis in the tradition of the Indian Hemp Commission and the Schaffer Commission. It called for legalization of cannabis for people over 16.

The Senators in Canada are appointed for a lifetime so they do not have to worry about re-election. This is a must read for anyone that is serious about developing an accurate view of cannabis. It called for legalization for Canadians over 16: http://tinyurl.com/1d16

There is a little summary of it here- http://hempcity.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=575


46 posted on 02/21/2009 10:14:25 AM PST by poodle
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To: poodle
Propaganda. There has never been a case of lung cancer attributed to cannabis use.

Only a propagandist would believe that holding burning smoke in your lungs as long as you can would not be harmful.

The NIDA (National Institute on Drug Abuse) shows several references for cancer claims. Read about

If you want to talk harm, it is simple. The harms come from the laws. That is what everybody is trying to get through to the television minds and authority worshipers. Go down to the courthouse or jail and ask someone how the law messed up their life. Everyone that buys cannabis gets robbed because of government policy which is the greatest of tyrannies no matter that some are blind to the fact.

Well yes, generally if one breaks the laws of the city, state or country in which they live their lives are going to be "messed up". That's a no-brainer. The fact that pot smokers will insist on breaking the law to support their habit is a clear indicator that it's not as harmless as many insist.

47 posted on 02/21/2009 10:19:13 AM PST by DouglasKC
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To: poodle
Sorry, my link to the NIDA website didn't work.

This NIDA articlefootnotes several links to research that apply to marijuana and its relation to cancer.

48 posted on 02/21/2009 10:24:17 AM PST by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC

So a little harm is to wipe out great benefit and inflict unbelievable harm with the tyranny of unjust laws.

So why isn’t tobacco use a life sentence. Like if you are a prohibitionist why don’t you have priorities.

You are really helping the cause of Free Cannabis. Just keep talking.

When Dr. Grinspoon set out to research cannabis as a young doctor at Harvard, he wanted to give the stoners at Harvard the low down on how big and bad cannabis was. He found out it was not big and bad at all but a great medicine. You really should break down and listen to a medical researcher on cannabis and this link is for you: http://rabble.ca/podcasts/shows/living-purpose/episode-127-lester-grinspoon-md

I hate to tell you this but you are arguing absurdities. You are a riot.


49 posted on 02/21/2009 10:30:58 AM PST by poodle
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To: poodle
Cannab is toxic? Just how wrong can you get? Where is the first body that resulted from cannabis toxicity? How do you get off saying something is toxic when it has not produced on death?

What do you think the "high" is? It's the result of your brain trying to cope with a poison that's been introduced. That's not to mention the physical effects of pots toxicity. Toxic doesn't always equate with death. It's a term that can be applied to any poison introduced to your body.

I wish you devoted your energy to reducing the harms of sugar consumption. That sugar is the biggest substance abuse problem we have.

You know, this is what really irks me about these pro-pot threads. Kids read this and they think "Gee..adults are saying that sugar is worse than pot. I guess I'll try smoking pot!"

To me this is the height of irresponsibility. Please consider your words and your sources more carefully.

50 posted on 02/21/2009 10:40:20 AM PST by DouglasKC
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