Shelby discusses stimulus bill, other issues (Questions Obama's Citizenship* (Uh-Oh))

The Cullman Times ^ | February 21, 2009 | Patrick McCreless

[HighlyOpinionated]

WooooooooooHooooooooooooooooo.

The Kenya connection probably wasn’t going to be brought up if BHusseinObama had been a good fiscal manager. But NOW, since he’s tripled the Deficit in just 3 weeks, it may get brought up to remove him from office. It is a ‘final’ resource for Congress if the legislators come to the conclusion that he’s incapable of leading the Country.

Stay tuned, this isn’t over yet.

[HighlyOpinionated]

According to the Associated Press, state officials in Hawaii checked health department records during the campaign and determined there was no doubt Obama was born in Hawaii.

Patently UnTrue. They merely said that there was a birth certificate on file in Hawaii. Doesn't mean that he was born there.

Say something often enough and people will believe it's true.

[Askwhy5times]

I am really starting to like Sen. Shelby. The Intellectual Redneck

[HighlyOpinionated]

Maybe it’s finally dawning on them that there are huge loopholes within the system; both state and federal.

The huge loopholes are in the current President's head and agenda.

[wewereright]

Here’s what I just sent the “intrepid” reporter:

Dear Patrick M.:

You need be careful with this if you are interested in maintaining your journalistic integrity.

The Hawaiian officials never said that Mr. Obama was born in their State. It never happened! They said he had a valid birth certificate. If you would spend some time researching the matter you would discover - as so many others have - that the two conditions can be mutually exclusive. Fact Check has completely ignored the same issues you have in your piece. HI has given out certificates of live birth in the past that they will not even accept as proof under all circumstances. And they have a good reasons for doing so - perhaps you should find out what they are.

Funny now none of you clever reporters have ever come up with his real long form BC, or can prove what hospital he was was born in, or can seem to get your hands on any of his college records!

Articles with flimsy research is one of the reasons for decline of print media. If we have to do our own research to get to the truth why

Another local resident asked Shelby if there was any truth to a rumor that appeared during the presidential campaign concerning Obama’s U.S. citizenship, or lack thereof.

“Well his father was Kenyan and they said he was born in Hawaii, but I haven’t seen any birth certificate,” Shelby said. “You have to be born in America to be president.”

According to the Associated Press, state officials in Hawaii checked health department records during the campaign and determined there was no doubt Obama was born in Hawaii.

The nonpartisan Web site Factcheck.org examined the original document and said it does have a raised seal and the usual evidence of a genuine document. In addition, Factcheck.org reproduced an announcement of Obama’s birth, including his parents’ address in Honolulu, that was published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961.

[sefarkas]

The way I was told is that McCain was born in Panama but not on Panamanion soil as a US naval base is considered to be US soil.

Unfortunately, the hospital McCain was born in was not on the base. Because impeachment is the only way to remove Obama from office at this point, this whole discussion seems pointless. Time to put in some Republican Senators that would have stood up at the time the Electoral College met and forced the issue then and there. Senator Shelby is pandering.

[Myrddin]

Because impeachment is the only way to remove Obama from office at this point, this whole discussion seems pointless.

If he's not eligible to hold he office, there isn't any removing to be done. He was never legally President. Anything he has signed is invalid. The longer this charade continues, the deeper the mire is going to get.

[dascallie]

good job

[cpdiii]

Because impeachment is the only way to remove Obama from office at this point

The democrat controlled house would not impeach nor would the Senate convict if he were impeached. He will leave the White House only if mass civil disobedience occur, as did the peaceful disobedience of the civil rights movement in the sixties. The other way he will leave is if the military leadership is convenienced that he is not a legitimate president. They could refuse his orders. In fact they are sworn to uphold the Constitution of the United States. If it is determined that he is not eligible to be President it is their duty not to support him nor obey his orders. If this occurred massive civil disobedience would follow. Some of it would not be peaceful.

Our great nation is poised on a cusp.

[FFranco]

This should have been addressed a long time ago. It is clear to many that Obama does not meet the minimum Constitutional requirements to serve as President. But it is too late now. If it were to be proved that he was born in Kenya, I believe the only recourse would be impeachment and removal from office. Not likely with a Democrat Congress.

[itsahoot]

I wonder if the Democrats will respond with a personal attack on Senator Shelby

It will be ignored, and quietly fade away.

[Kansas58]

Actually, BOTH of McCain’s parents were old enough to pass on “natural born citizen” status to John McCain, regardless of John McCain’s place of birth.

Obama’s mother was not old enough to do the same.

Also, The Panama Canal Zone was American Territory at the time of McCain’s birth.

[Kansas58]

sefar
you are wrong on the facts
you are wrong on strategy, to a point.

First, McCain's parents were old enough to pass citizenship to John McCain, regardless of McCain's birth place.

Obama’s mother was NOT old enough to pass on citizenship, automatically. She needed to be 19. She was 18. Please study this one some more.

Also, the Electoral College is the Constitutional nexus of State Power and Congressional Power.

Yes, Congress could have moved not to accept electors from any state, but that is not the right policy, in a Dem dominated body like Congress, not on this issue.

If this thing had surfaced, sooner, we could have gotten state election officials to require documentation of “natural born citizen” status. We could have gotten states to deny ballot access, we could have gotten states to deny Electors to Obama, in the first place.

Now, absolutely, we need to focus on Congress and the mid term elections. However, the Party in the White House almost always Loses Seats in a mid-term election.

Part of the reason for this, is that the “loyal opposition” hits the sitting President with everything they've got.

We DO have something here. We are not sure what it is, but -—
Obama promised an “open administration” and “transparency” and all we get is a legal stonewall.

Obama has been proven to be a con artist and a flim flam man, on this issue.

We MUST drive it home to the voters. This issue WILL upset people! Here is a man who lets his BROTHER live in a shack, in Kenya, while he spends hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to avoid a legal request to see a valid birth certificate?

Why?

[nc28205]

>>>Seems to me that was vetted through Congress, can’t say the same for your guy

So if Congress says Obama meets the requirements, then you are ok with it?

[nc28205]

>>>Actually, BOTH of McCain’s parents were old enough to pass on “natural born citizen” status to John McCain, regardless of John McCain’s place of birth.

That depends on what definition of Natural Born one uses. There are those that say that a child born to two citizens is natural born, but there are others that say the definition requires birth on US soil. Based on the qoute, Shelby may be an adherent to that definition.

[nc28205]

See the case of Donofrio v. Wells case, where Donofrio argued that NBC requires meeting both of these two criteria: 1. citizenship must be passed on by the constitutionally pertinent principle of natural law, which assumes that citizenship is inherited from one’s father’s citizenship and, 2. citizenship must be granted by means of being born in the actual territory of the United States.

According to this case, Barack H. Obama II is not qualified, because his father, Barack H. Obama I, was a citizen of the United Kingdom as a Kenyan. John McCain is not qualified, because he was born in Panama or the Panama Canal Zone, which was a protectorate of the United States and has never been a territory of the Untied States, even though his parents were U.S. Citizens.

[Kansas58]

You are wrong sir.
The Constitution uses words.
Words require definition.
Such definition is left, of course, to Congress and the Courts.
It is entirely possible to be a “natural born citizen” and not be born on US soil.
However, to qualify, one must be born with at least one parent who IS a US citizen, and that citizen must be at least 19 years of age, and must have spent considerable time in the United States, prior to the birth of the child.

I refer you to the US Passport Application. This would be form DS-11.
That document clearly lists, on page 2 of the instructions, Section 1. Proof of Citizenship
b. Applicants born outside the US, submit a previous US passport, Certificate(s) of naturalization of your parent(s), your foreign birth certificate, Abroad, or evidence described below
1.)If you claim Citizenship through Naturalization of Parent(S)-———
2.)If you claim Citizenship through birth abroad to One U.S. Citizen Parent: Submit a Consular Report of Birth (Form FS-240), Certificate of Birth (Form DS-1350 or FS-545), oryour foreign birth certificate, proof of citizenship of your parent, your parents marriage certificate and an affidavit showing all of your U.S. Citizen parent’s periods and places of residence/physical presence in the U.S. and abroad before your birth.
3.)If you claim birth abroad through two U.S. Citizen Parents, (Same as above, trust me)
4.)If you claim U.S. Citizenship through Adoption -—

---

Anyway, you get the point.
There are laws which define “Natural Born Citizen” -— and it is accepted that the law in place at the time of birth dictates. The law for children born today is different than the law when Obama was born. The law when Obama was born would require his mother to be 19, if he was not born on American soil. Also, there is some question about Obama’s mother’s location in all of the years prior to Obama’s birth.

BOTH of McCain’s parents were over 19, when he was born. BOTH parents met the residency and location requirements, BOTH were citizens, and McCain was born on what is legally considered US territory, at the time of birth.

[Kansas58]

Again
My authority is the United States Department of State.
The State Department must ask how it is that you claim citizenship.
The State Department has different rules, based on the year that you were born, since Congress can not, by fiat, retroactively alter the law that was in place at the time of anyone's birth.

The Passport form says, clearly, that current law on citizenship, for those born abroad, does not apply to those born prior to 02/27/1983.

The law prior to that date required Obama’s mother to be 19 or older.

Both of McCain's parents were over 19. McCain is a natural born citizen, no matter where on Earth, or the Moon for that matter, he was born!

[nc28205]

Actually, those statutes you state appear to refer to proof of citizenship, not natural born citizenship.

[Las Vegas Ron]

If he's Constitutionally fit, like McCain, then as far as the eleigibility question is concerned, yes.

Otherwise, no, I am not OK with a Marxist for POTUS.

One could make the argument that an individual who holds beliefs that are the antithesis of the Constitution is not fit either, but that's another thread.