Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

We Shouldn't 'Hire American' (Restricting H-1B visas for foreign workers amounts to protectionism)
Forbes ^ | Feb 25,2009 | George A. Pieler

Posted on 02/26/2009 5:43:58 AM PST by SeekAndFind

Can you stimulate the economy by shutting out foreign workers? Sens. Bernie Sanders and Chuck Grassley think so. And for all his anti-protectionist rhetoric, President Obama has shown surprisingly little interest in stopping them.

The stimulus bill the president signed into law restricts the use of bank bailout funds (money banks get from the Financial Stability Plan, formerly known as the Troubled Asset Relief Program) to hire skilled foreign workers under the H-1B visa program.

This slap at open labor markets is downplayed as a dramatic but toothless gesture in favor of "Hire American," nice companion to the "Buy American" provisions of the same bill. Anyone who finds either of these two concepts a good idea in times of crisis has not learned anything from history. This superficially patriotic protectionism is a knee-jerk reaction, the politicians' equivalent of kids scratching a wound when they should really know better.

Even in its present form, this clause can do great damage. In this case, the Sanders-Grassley strictures mean nearly all major U.S. banks and financial institutions--all recipients of bailout cash--have to demonstrate that when they hire foreign worker, they tried to, but couldn't, hire American worker instead.

Aptitude, training and skill level become, at best, secondary concerns, and the door to lawsuits is opened wide. The restrictions don't bar foreign hires (who can legally work in America with H-1B visa), but makes them cost-ineffective in most cases and imposes prohibitive burdens on recruitment of needed talent. Banks are not the only targets: the Big Three automakers, for example, are all on the Financial Stability Plan's dole, too.

The real problem, though, is the underlying principle of the law. The idea that native Americans (or Poles, or Koreans, or Egyptians) deserve special status in hiring is deliberate slap in the face of globalization.

(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cheaplabor; economy; h1b; hireamerican; immigration; jobs; protectionism; visa
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-111 next last
To: Gondring
If you believe that poor management skills and bad ethics are synonymous, then you've got some learnin' to do.

From what I have seen, it is largely both. If you treat your employees and your customers ethically, you stay in business. It's that simple.

And I love how you skeddadle rather than address the large question - by your own admission, poor corporate management is the norm nowadays, and that poor management is driving the free labor process you support so wholeheartedly. Maybe you need to re-examine your premises - that pursuing the cheapest labor is not smart business. And it has a highly negative long-term impact on the economy because it undercuts for the short-and-mid term companies that are trying to be run well - they loose out on price competition, and by the time they are out of business, the other company is hurting as well at that point because of poor quality. So cheap labor took out two companies, not just one.

61 posted on 02/26/2009 6:58:59 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Why is anybody listening to this idiot?

62 posted on 02/26/2009 7:00:04 AM PST by wastedyears (April 21st, 2009 - International Iron Maiden Day)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RKV

DOL believes they are local. Every company that wants to import workers has to first advertise their positions at the prevailing local wage or salary rate. They then have to find creative ways to refuse to hire. Even the judge in “Miracle on 34th street had to conclude Kris was Santa.
Look; it’s tough to move for a job. This makes the supply of labor relatively fixed. It’s tough to hire from far away, easier to move the capital. The trick of business is, what guides the invisible hand of the market if the capitalist has no morals?
What did the silk road have to do with the Norsemen?
Please connect more directly


63 posted on 02/26/2009 7:00:25 AM PST by steve8714 (How do you know your tattoo doesn't read "I love Mangina" in Chinese?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Gondring
Yeah, so much better for them that he kicked them to the street.

So which is it clown? He should be forced to keep them or forced to fire them? Apparently you would be happier if he had kept the company open and running at a loss so he could go beg congress for money.

And let me guess, dumped them out onto others to pay for until they could find another job?

Again, was it his obligation to keep them at a lower wage? The fact that you call it dumping is a real fine indicator of what you think of Americans.

How ethical. Much more ethical than asking them to accept competitive wages.

Certainly far more ethical than importing labor to put Americans out of work.

It is kind of amusing watching you globalist clowns running in circles trying to plug all the new leaks.
64 posted on 02/26/2009 7:00:59 AM PST by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek

I agree that NAFTA was a bad thing, because of the end of national sovereignty and the lack of flexibility.


65 posted on 02/26/2009 7:03:44 AM PST by steve8714 (How do you know your tattoo doesn't read "I love Mangina" in Chinese?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: sausageseller

For the most part you cannot rely on the vital statistics provided by another country, much less their background checks. Case in point; baseball players from Latin America.


66 posted on 02/26/2009 7:06:37 AM PST by steve8714 (They tuuk ahr jahbs!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: steve8714

I know a company that hires 300 H1Bs from South Africa. Nothing in your points or others negative comments have been confirmed in those hires.


67 posted on 02/26/2009 7:15:51 AM PST by sausageseller (http://coolblue.typepad.com/the_cool_blue_blog/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: steve8714

We had plenty of trade prior to NAFTA and we’ll have plenty of trade once it’s gone.

Canada is America’s best friend and our best trading partner but frankly they can take their complaint about our nation of orgin food labeling laws and shove it. There is no good reason to oppose food labeling other than not wanting us to know. If it’s that important to them they’re free to sell to someone else. However I suspect they’ll still sell to us because we’re willing to pay the most.

Prior to NAFTA we complained about the number of products that came from Japan (Myself included), but today I would be thrilled to get that kind of quality again.


68 posted on 02/26/2009 7:22:40 AM PST by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: central_va
“If allowed to live free, there will never be slums of the hard working, never happened or will happen.”

So, so wrong.

How prevailing wages became law:

In that early industrial era, almost all jobs were low paying and worker protections were non-existent. Even worse, though the courts had ruled otherwise, those who sought change using collective action were still often viewed as part of a ”criminal conspiracy.” For workers, conditions couldn’t be worse. While the economy as whole continued to expand, most industries (and their workers) suffered from fairly regular and sometimes extreme business fluctuations – making work relationships tenuous at best and making job security an all but impossible goal to achieve.

In such an economic environment, employers were free to “bargain” with workers – primarily to see which one would work for the lowest wage. With exploitation so pervasive, workers could find themselves working up to twelve or more hours per day and seven days a week for less than subsistence. For workers with families, their economic plight often made it necessary to have more than one income – forcing both parents to work many hours each day for meager pay and often forcing children to work instead of going to school.

However, even before the end of the last century, many Americans began to question why such conditions were afflicting an ever-greater number of workers. More to the point, a growing number came to believe that, having an economic system that favored businesses which paid the least possible wages was clearly incompatible with our country’s founding principles of freedom, equality, justice, and the “pursuit of happiness.” In fact, many reformers went further, charging that it was blatantly hypocritical for America to espouse the benefits of a “free enterprise system” while the reality was increasing impoverishment

69 posted on 02/26/2009 7:23:11 AM PST by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: steve8714
Also Steve I have had H1B hires myself. Never had any problems. They were all from former "eastern block" countries.

None stayed over!

70 posted on 02/26/2009 7:25:23 AM PST by sausageseller (http://coolblue.typepad.com/the_cool_blue_blog/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
I have 3 friends here on H-1B visas. All doing specialized tech work, all graduated from U.S. universities. All 3 are paid well, all 3 treated well by their employers. At least one had multiple job offers/companies pursuing him when he graduated with his masters.

Two want to start their own businesses, in the U.S., within the next several years. Who knows? Maybe they'll start the next Yahoo! or Google.

71 posted on 02/26/2009 7:34:59 AM PST by gdani (I believe in de-evolution)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: King Moonracer

“One H1-B is one too many.”

This is a bit naive in today’s world. I have to deal with H1 and L1 visa issues on daily basis and the truth is much more complicated. First, companies are increasingly global and hiring is on global basis. In other words, team X needs to hire somebody. It advertises the position in Asia, Europe and the US. The position can be filled in any company site worldwide (where the team is operating). Eventually, it decides to hire somebody.

It is now much easier to hire somebody outside of US, rather than to deal with the visa issue in the US. The end result is that positions tend to get filled outside of US. Tax revenue goes to some other country, and the company grows elsewhere (which tend to lead further growth there, as opposed to US). I would say this is bad for US, but hey, that’s just me. Wall Street banks especially can hire people (for the same positions) easily in the UK, US, Singapore and UAE. US is now the last place to hire, unfortunately.

Second, this is only about 64,000 visas, and mostly in specialised areas for people who studied in the US (and who are likely to become citizens). My company hires best talent on global basis. Having to hire second-grade talent because of visa limitations makes no sense, and it just leads to filling the positions elsewhere, where it is legal to hire the best talent possible. Free marker principle has made this country rich. Protectionism and socialism makes this country poor.

Bailout bill specifically supported illegal aliens, but punishes legal immigrants. Crazy.


72 posted on 02/26/2009 7:35:28 AM PST by heiss
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Gondring
And so we should force the commpanies to hire UNQUALIFIED workers instead of qualified foreign ones, right?

The big lie is that they set the "qualification bar" for Americans ridiculously high, and, when no Americans appear who can fly on gossamer wings and leap tall buildings with a single bound, they hire an H1-B who is nothing like the original set of qualifications they demanded.

The whole exercise is an excuse to hire someone for pennies to whom they have no obligations, owe no benefits, etc. They want a cheap, disposable, unqualified foreign worker, not an American who has rights under the law and expects benefits, etc.

73 posted on 02/26/2009 8:04:35 AM PST by Campion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Gondring
TANSTAAFL!

I am sorry I am dense this morning. What does this acronym stand for?
74 posted on 02/26/2009 8:16:07 AM PST by dmartin (Not the 'Change' you were 'Hoping' for?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Gondring
And so we should force the commpanies to hire UNQUALIFIED workers instead of qualified foreign ones, right?

I have been involved in IT for 15 years or so. There is a vast difference between what we would consider a highly skilled and qualified developer and what is coming through the H1-B system. I wish it weren't so as it would make my work much easier but for every skilled and qualified developer I have there are nine others who total experience seems to have been reading a few books and writing a resume.

I will actually wager with anyone that I can train a literate American that has basic computer knowledge to be a Front End Developer (HTML, CSS, XML) in less than four weeks and have them running circles around this 'skilled' talent that we are importing.

One other thing. Is importing cheap labor any different in this case than just offshoring the work?
75 posted on 02/26/2009 8:30:07 AM PST by dmartin (Not the 'Change' you were 'Hoping' for?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
"...have to demonstrate that when they hire foreign worker, they tried to, but couldn't, hire American worker instead"

According to my understanding of the law, every single H1B hire is supposed have been due to the inability to locate a similarly skilled American to fill the position. I know, I know... it doesn't work that way, but I believe technically it is intended to work exactly that way. Seems these days companies (and really individuals who work at those companies) are more than willing to lie, fudge the numbers and re-write job descriptions so specific that only the candidate they want can fill the role.

Something to think about.....

76 posted on 02/26/2009 8:58:50 AM PST by Lloyd227 (Class of 1998 (let's all help the Team McCain spider monkeys decide how to moderate))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lloyd227
According to my understanding of the law, every single H1B hire is supposed have been due to the inability to locate a similarly skilled American to fill the position. I know, I know... it doesn't work that way, but I believe technically it is intended to work exactly that way

But the companies can make it true simply through their advertisement. For instance, I know of a very skilled American software developer who has laid off who has been looking for a job for over 6 months.

Companies would interview look at his resume and demand some of the most outrageous skillset that only one perfect individual could fill.

Did he do Oracle ? Yes he did, but version 9i. Sorry, we need someone with Oracle 11i experience. Did he do UNIX ? Yes but only AIX and Solaris. Sorry, We need LINUX. Does he do Java ? Yes, OK, but we also need him to have C# experience. Did he have MQ series experience ? Yes, he did a project on it 4 years ago. Sorry, not current enough. On and on it went for so many interviews. One thing in common I noticed --- they eventually hired a foreign worker on an H1B visa.
77 posted on 02/26/2009 10:01:25 AM PST by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
"But the companies can make it true simply through their advertisement..."

Agreed, they could....

So why do they not? And it's not always about pay either...

78 posted on 02/26/2009 10:38:59 AM PST by Lloyd227 (Class of 1998 (let's all help the Team McCain spider monkeys decide how to moderate))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 77 | View Replies]

To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus; hedgetrimmer; B4Ranch

“The real problem, though, is the underlying principle of the law. The idea that native Americans (or Poles, or Koreans, or Egyptians) deserve special status in hiring is deliberate slap in the face of globalization.”

....deliberate slap in the face to globalization.....and that’s a bad thing???


79 posted on 02/26/2009 10:45:29 AM PST by AuntB (The right to vote in America: Blacks 1870; Women 1920; Native Americans 1925; Foreigners 2008)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: sausageseller

Anecdotal success does not imply the program has worth. There is no H1B for virtue. If you want to say that many American workers bring doom on themselves because they lack the virtues of modern industrial or admin work, that’s different.
That however is not the point of the program.


80 posted on 02/26/2009 10:58:51 AM PST by steve8714 (They tuuk ahr jahbs!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-111 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson