Come on now. Does somebody need a hug?
Posted on 04/16/2009 12:43:26 PM PDT by the_Watchman
I told them I was a US citizen. I told them I was on a business trip. I told them I had no drugs or humans in the car. That wasn't enough. They wanted to search the car, and I invoked my 4th am...
(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...
If he was a drug dealer the Border Agent would probably be in solitary confinement by now.
If this story is true (I certainly don’t know that it is), it will be interesting if anything happens to the BP agents, and if so, which side the FR crowd will side with.
I can’t imagine them doing that to a person with Hispanic features.
This guy needs to learn how to pick his battles. Imagine the cry that FReepers would let out if the gov’t decided they weren’t going to search or inspect anyone at the border.
I am curious, too.
There is a clear difference between supporting law enforcement and its functions in a civilized society versus rationalizing even the worst abuses of power by officers of the law.
The first thing he says in his video was that he refused to answer their questions. I wonder which statement is correct.
I heard the description of this episode at the Tea Party in Gilbert AZ yesterday.....I am amazed.
Do you suppose they Border Patrol read the DHS report and were concerned that he might be a right wing extremist?
I’ve lived within 18 miles of the border for most of my life, BP agents rarely get in trouble. We have always called them the Gestapo. I don’t think you have any rights where they are concerned.
I always rate them as to what I think their grade was in A$$HOLE school because I’m pretty sure that is one of their requirements in training.
Another person who, for some reason, keeps thinking that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are still valid.
I take a pretty dim view of beating someone to a pulp just because they thought citizens still had rights in this nation.
I’m sure some court or another has made the Fourth Amendment rights in cases like this, all but null and void. That still doesn’t mean law enforcement should be able to do more damage than was necessary to this person’s vehicle, or inflict pain and physical abuse on this person.
One window should have been broken to gain access. This person should have been removed from the vehicle. If he fought, then he should expect to have some form of injury while being brought under control. There wasn’t any reason whatsoever to drag his head along the windowsill with broken glass. There was no reason to stomp his head into the ground.
Look, law enforcement may not like the fact that citizens mention their rights, but when it gets to the level of teaching the guy a lesson, it’s gone out of control.
These officers should be prosecuted. And the observing highway patrol officer should have refused to detain the person based on the level of damage to the car and the suspect.
There was no probably cause. These guys just decided to F with the pastor.
There are ways to conduct incidents like this, and there are ways not to conduct them. This was over the top.
At those checkpoints the first question is "Are you a U.S. Citizen?" That is the only question I've ever been asked, and I've never been sent to secondary. Anybody here been sent to secondary at one of these checkpoints? I've been secondaried several times at the border.
I haven’t seen the video, and if your description is accurate, it sounds like police overkill.
That said, someone who decides to play martyr at the border is an idiot. Do you think people should be allowed to not cooperate with border security? I don’t.
This guy can have all the 4th amendment rights he wants when he is in the country. At the border he’s just being an ass with no leg to stand on.
Thanks for the clarification. It doesn’t seem to me that being asked for proof of identity while operating a motor vehicle is an outrageous request.
If I lived in a border area and loved my country, I’d think I’d welcome seeing such enforcement.
He never crossed the border. He was IN the US the whole time.
That is the point. He wasn't crossing the border. He was driving inside the state of Arizona. This was an illegal checkpoint with illegal actions on the part of the border patrol.
Are we certain that he is a Reverend? If he had nothing to hide why did he challenge the BP agents with the 4th Amendment. If you are a border checkpoint, car searches are a reasonable request.
Yep, that;s been clarified.
This was an illegal checkpoint with illegal actions on the part of the border patrol.
On what basis do you say the checkpoint was "illegal"?
What does being a Baptist preacher have to do with this story?
Bread delivery man beaten and tazed by Border patrol....
The red flags go up with these stories when it’s made to imply a pastor has been targeted for his faith.
Does that excuse how he was treated? No.
Do you expect kid glove treatment from Border patrol officers that have one of the most frustrating jobs on earth? No.
I wouldn’t mess with those guys. I would get after our elected officials who will not enforce immigration laws.
I agree that the situation would be different at the border, but he was not at the border. He was not “near” the border since he would have had to go through the city of Yuma to get to the border.
Is the Pastor’s church in favor of open borders? Looks like he was setting himself up in order to blast the BP.
These border stops are far inside the nation. They may be as much as 25 to 50 miles from the border. There was no probable cause. They refused to bring the dog back out for the suspect and the state highway patrol officer. That alone should tell you something.
These guys were out of control. Like I said, there are ways to effect arrest that don’t involve having to tazer the suspect or cut them up. These guys wanted to F this guy over so severely, that he would be an object less for any other person passing through the check-point.
I am one vicious son of a gun when it comes to illegal immigration. Don’t think I’m going soft here because I don’t believe in the check-point concept. I just also happen to believe that Citizens have rights. And this guy should not have been given the full court press once the dog passed on the car.
And these officer refusing to bring the dog back out, was an admission that the dog did pass on the vehicle.
You watch how quickly all the videos disappear here. It’s almost certain not one will survive.
“On what basis do you say the checkpoint was “illegal”?”
That’s what I’m trying to figure out. If the area is a known migration trail, it seems that it might be plausible to have a check point there.
Can any FReepers living down near the border shed some light on this?
He wasn't at "the border", you moron.
Learn to read.
SCOTUS has spoken on this issue. The 4th does not apply when crossing an international border into the US.
L
Are you brain damaged? Do you really think that anyone other than DU trolls are going to support or demand that the government disregard the constitution and physically assault citizens?
There shouldn’t be checkpoints inside the border. The Border Patrol is, IMHO, a largely good outfit with a tough job, but they have no business doing these checkpoints inside the borders, merely between two U.S. cities.
AT the border, where these guys are trained to operate, there IS no 4th amendment. There is no requirement for probable cause for a search AT THE BORDER. They’re the wrong people to be doing law enforcement anywhere else.
They should be at the borders where they are badly needed. Maybe a case like this (and this guy has an excellent case) could put a stop to this, if he pursues it.
True... but this guy hadn't crossed the border. Makes a big difference.
Someone crossing an international border into the USA is a valid State REASON for searching.
Is this guy trying to agitate for no border inspections as a sort of Huckabee ‘it would be un-Christian to deny them the full rights and benefits of living in the USA’ ploy?
What an idiotic tool.
“Don't taze me bro!”
What year did you fail the GED?
I'm pretty sure these border agents had a vendetta against him because of this:
Unless you have a different map I think the area north of Yuma is still "in this country".
As others have pointed out, this was not a border crossing.
Sure does. Then the correct response is "Do you have a Warrant, Officer?"
L
I don’t really agree. The borders are sieves at the moment. They need to be able to have checkpoints on this side of the border for that reason.
I don’t excuse the border patrol agents if they physically abused him, but I suspect from this account that he behaved stupidly and angered them for that reason.
If the borders WERE properly guarded, and if there weren’t millions of illegal aliens on the wrong side, many of them gang members and drug smugglers, this sort of thing wouldn’t be necessary. But in the circumstances, I don’t see what other choice there is.
Are you saying that if he's a pastor, he shouldn't be treated like other citizens?
If he had nothing to hide why did he challenge the BP agents with the 4th Amendment.
Maybe for the same reason most people wouldn't let police search their house without a warrant... he was just trying to keep one of the last rights 'we the people' still have.
Here’s a great idea. Cross the border, Load up your truck with paying illegals come back to the US. If you get stopped, invoke the 4th and drive on.
Come on now. Does somebody need a hug?
You learn to read the rest of the thread before posting. I was only going off of what I could read. Some of us can’t get to youtube because of firewalls.
Anyway, my incorrect assumption was already cleared up by other, helpful, posters. And I acknowledged I was in error.
So, I have no need for you or your stupid, pointless post.
I wonder if supporters of the Patriot Act and warrantless searches feel the same way now that Obama is President.
The 4th amendment is a joke. I am taking Criminal Justice and they tell us “If you say they can’t search your car or home, you are assumed guilty. Not technically of course...”
>I haven’t seen the video, and if your description is accurate, it sounds like police overkill.
You should.
>This guy can have all the 4th amendment rights he wants when he is in the country. At the border he’s just being an ass with no leg to stand on.
He WAS in the us, this was NOT a border-crossing.
“One window should have been broken to gain access. This person should have been removed from the vehicle. If he fought, then he should expect to have some form of injury while being brought under control. There wasn’t any reason whatsoever to drag his head along the windowsill with broken glass. There was no reason to stomp his head into the ground.”
BULLSH*T!
You think for no reason whatsoever that a government agency can and should bust into an individual’s property just because they THINK something might be there?
What are you doing here at Free Republic?
Do you suppose they Border Patrol read the DHS report and were concerned that he might be a right wing extremist?
Not all border crossing points are exactly on the border; and people trying to smuggle drugs and people inside the USA often try to avoid the checkpoints ON the border, but are stopped and inspected at other locations that are border crossings, but not ON the border.
I get “inspected” (slightly) every time I drive north of San Diego. I guess they consider anything south of there part of the border “zone”.
Is your contention that there is no compelling State reason for inspections at locations where people are very likely to be crossing from south of the border?
Do you contend that any border checkpoint not directly on the border has no compelling reason for search?
Is this guy agitating for no inspections at border crossing locations?
Or does he just think that he as a US citizen and member of the clergy is somehow immune?
I believe the point to all of this is that the pastor was NOT crossing the border. He was inside the US and was stopped by the border patrol not at the border but well inside the US where he has the right to demand a search warrant from any police officer wishing to search his vehicle without probable cause.
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