Posted on 04/16/2009 12:43:26 PM PDT by the_Watchman
I told them I was a US citizen. I told them I was on a business trip. I told them I had no drugs or humans in the car. That wasn't enough. They wanted to search the car, and I invoked my 4th am...
(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...
Don’t need PC to do a stop at checkpoint. Mere suspicion only.
Not all border crossing zones are exactly on the border. Vehicles and people go “off road” to avoid them, get on US streets, get on US highways, and then HOPEFULLY run into a border control check point because the patrol knows this is a border crossing zone where any vehicle passing by is somewhat likely to have crossed from south of the border and may well be smuggling drugs or people.
Do you think there is no REASON for there to be border check points at border crossing zones, thus that the search would have been “Unreasonable”?
Americans do not have the right to not be searched. Americans have the right to not be searched in an unreasonable fashion and without a reason.
The border patrols request was not unreasonable, and the purpose of their search most assuredly had both a reason and a compelling State interest behind it.
And by the way, based on some of the sermon clips I’ve heard ... if I had to attend his church, I’d probably gouge my eardrums out. Hate to use this word, but very “extreme.”
Still irrelevant to this encounter with the BP, though.
>>and I invoked my 4th am...
>
>SCOTUS has spoken on this issue. The 4th does not apply when crossing an international border into the US.
He was NOT crossing any international border.
Whether you or I like it or not, the courts have given the border patrol the right to inspect vehicles. In certain instances, like this one, I don’t like it, but that is what we’re dealing with.
All I am saying, is that these men could have effected what they needed to do, without doing anything like what they wound up doing.
Just because this man refused to obey them, that did not give them a right to abuse him. And that is clearly what they did. Even the state trooper should have allowed the suspect to go to the restroom. If for no other reason, he should have done it to keep his vehicle clean.
If I adopt your view on this completely, we would have no recourse other than to allow vehicles to enter this nation uninspected. That would be a total disaster IMO.
We have to have some reasonable means of stopping the flow of illegals. And using dogs to sniff out drugs or illegals should suffice. And if the dogs don’t hit, the officer should let the vehicle go.
There has to be more reason than what was shown here. IMO these officers should face charges.
Look, if you have a better policy that you think should be adopted, I’d like to hear it. Perhaps it’s a stance I could support that is better than my own.
>We have a fourth amendment right against UNREASONABLE search and seizure of our persons papers and effects.
>
>Someone crossing an international border into the USA is a valid State REASON for searching.
This was not on an international border.
>Is this guy trying to agitate for no border inspections as a sort of Huckabee ‘it would be un-Christian to deny them the full rights and benefits of living in the USA’ ploy?
No, watch the video.
>What an idiotic tool.
Did you watch the video?
>Here’s a great idea. Cross the border, Load up your truck with paying illegals come back to the US. If you get stopped, invoke the 4th and drive on.
He was not crossing an international US border.
What the_Watchman was trying to tell you, is that this pastor was 25 to 50 miles inside the United States when the border patrol officers effected this stop.
Checkpoints in the U.S. are frequently far inside the nation, so as to catch anyone who may have walked across the border, and met someone to transport them.
Do you contend that the State has no reason for inspecting vehicles at a border crossing zone where there is a high likelihood that it might have not only crossed over the border, but avoided checkpoints when it did so?
Thus my question is rather simple.
Do you feel that an inspection of a vehicle likely to have crossed over the border at a border crossing ZONE is an unconstitutional abridgment of our fourth amendment rights against UNREASONABLE search and seizure?
>The Border Patrol is out of control. They are victimizing regular Americans and letting the illegals alone.
Little did we realize that the true nature of the Border Patrol was not to keep foreigners out, but to keep citizens in Amerika... [/doom]
Then the correct response is "Please show me your Warrant, Officer."
L
Okay, I can agree to that. I do not agree that this type of behavior is necessary if you’re going to check a car out. Stepping on someone’s head when they are on the ground is the act of a d—kless coward. If four or more people couldn’t get this pastor under control without that type of behavior, they should find something they’re a little more adept at.
It was on I-8 an east west interstate that runs from SD east, north of Yuma. It wasn’t a border crossing.
RTFA!!!!!!!!!!! Or the 50 or so posts above, he was not entering the country from Mexico. He was on US soil the entire time he traveled from San Diego to Phoenix on an AMERICAN INTERSTATE HIGHWAY!!!!!!! In a supposed FREE REPUBLIC.
Yeah, but it's mostly people who think we should give up our rights to the government. I used to think that way myself, then I grew up.
YOU UNDOUBTEDLY HAVE NEVER BEEN SINGLED OUT BY THE MAN.
>Do you feel that an inspection of a vehicle likely to have crossed over the border at a border crossing ZONE is an unconstitutional abridgment of our fourth amendment rights against UNREASONABLE search and seizure?
That a person should be held to be guilty, or put under suspension of being guilty (probable cause), for being in a particular area is not conducive to either the wording or the rights acknowledged by the Fourth Amendment.
To put it another way, is it reasonable to detain/search/arrest you for simply going out to your vehicle and starting it because you could use it to commit vehicular homicide? (Maybe you weren’t even GOING anywhere, but wanted to listen to the radio.)
The principle of UNREASONABLE is the same.
>>He was NOT crossing any international border.
>
>Then the correct response is “Please show me your Warrant, Officer.”
Ah, so make a request/demand rather than a question.
{”Do you have a warrant?”}
“The Border Patrol is out of control. They are victimizing regular Americans and letting the illegals alone.”
That way they get to look like they are doing something without actually doing something.
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