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How Europe Escaped Speaking Arabic
AEI Online ^ | December 11, 2008 | Michael Novak

Posted on 04/18/2009 5:41:01 PM PDT by Conservative Coulter Fan

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1 posted on 04/18/2009 5:41:01 PM PDT by Conservative Coulter Fan
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

ping for later reading..


2 posted on 04/18/2009 5:46:07 PM PDT by GSP.FAN
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Good Post! The way the Western World deals with Islam these days brings to mind Cleopatra and the asp.


3 posted on 04/18/2009 5:47:06 PM PDT by VR-21 (Think it's time we stop, Hey what's that sound.....)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan
" From there, it took Spain another 750 years--until 1492--to drive Islamic armies back into North Africa, "

Today, Mohammedans consider Spain theirs just much as Mexicans look at western U.S.A. as theirs.

Looks like the Mexicans are doing a little better at taking back their territory in America than the Islams in Spain.

yitbos

4 posted on 04/18/2009 5:54:00 PM PDT by bruinbirdman ("Those who control language control minds.")
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Islam and Sharia Law is the Mark of the Beast.


5 posted on 04/18/2009 5:56:14 PM PDT by autumnraine (Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose- Kris Kristoferrson)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

bookmark for later.
Print this one out and it’s an ink cartridge.


6 posted on 04/18/2009 5:59:43 PM PDT by IrishCatholic (No local Communist or Socialist Party Chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing!)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan
http://www.freedomszone.com/archives/Battle%20of%20Tours.png

Battle of Tours (a picture is worth a thousand words)

 

On October 10, 732 Muslim forces under Abd-al-Rahman advanced north from al-Andalus (Spain) and were defeated by Charles Martel (grandfather of Charlemagne) at the Battle of Tours. Most (not all) historians agree that the significance of the battle for Western history cannot be diminished:

A victorious line of march had been prolonged above a thousand miles from the rock of Gibraltar to the banks of the Loire; the repetition of an equal space would have carried the Saracens to the confines of Poland and the Highlands of Scotland; the Rhine is not more impassable than the Nile or Euphrates, and the Arabian fleet might have sailed without a naval combat into the mouth of the Thames. Perhaps the interpretation of the Koran would now be taught in the schools of Oxford, and her pulpits might demonstrate to a circumcised people the sanctity and truth of the revelation of Mahomet.--Gibbon
Read the rest here.

 

 

 

7 posted on 04/18/2009 6:04:54 PM PDT by dennisw (Your action becomes your habit. Your habit becomes your character, that becomes your destiny)
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To: GSP.FAN
In any case, Islam began making war on the Christian world from the very first moments of its birth.

If an angel of light (satan) was to plot the destruction of his nemesis (jesus), he would need to garner a following on earth that is ready, willing, and able to destroy all traces and references to the existence of christ.

The destruction of the truth of christ's divinity is all that is needed to destroy christ's church.

8 posted on 04/18/2009 6:05:31 PM PDT by x_plus_one ("Salvation comes about though change in individual lives, not through the ending of unjust society")
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Great article and subject: http://www.thetrumpet.com/?q=4526.2791.0.0

Brad McDonald wrote:

Today, the history of the Battle of Tours-Poitiers has, for the most part, been buried under masses of revisionist, politically correct, multicultural gibberish. Muslim imperialism is a taboo subject ignored by nearly everybody for fear of being ostracized, prosecuted, stabbed or bombed—or worse, igniting a global wave of riots on the Muslim street. This spirit of appeasement and non-judgmentalism, and willing ignorance of history, is preventing Westerners from analyzing the true nature of the crisis posed by Muslim ambition.

Too few are prepared to consider the fundamental forces at play in the Muslim-related crises occurring in Europe, such as last week’s brutal riots in Paris; or the Danish cartoon crisis; or the multiple terrorist plots that have been foiled across Europe; or the emergence of sharia suburbs in European cities; or the anti-European, anti-Christian vitriol spewing from the mouths of Muslim preachers in Europe, even the moderate ones; or the network of Islamic radicals stretching from Bosnia to Britain, Spain to Germany; or the rapid construction of hundreds of minarets across the European skyline, indicative of a swelling Muslim tide.

Troubles plague the relationship between European Muslims and their host nations, but few Europeans comprehend the magnitude of the crisis because they fail to look to history. This is alarming because the forces that made the Battle of Tours-Poitiers inevitable have been resurrected. The major difference is that today those forces run deeper and more intensely than they did in a.d. 732!


9 posted on 04/18/2009 6:09:42 PM PDT by keving (We get the government we vote for)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan
The one Turkish commander at Lepanto who performed well and got some of his ships away safely, Uluj Ali, was a former galley slave, an Italian who had been captured by Turkish pirates and had later become a renegade. After the battle he was made commander of the entire Ottoman navy and was renamed Kilic Ali.

King John Sobieski saved Vienna from being captured in 1683. In return, the Austrians later took part in two of the three partitions of Poland.

10 posted on 04/18/2009 6:10:11 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Fascinating reading.

Muslim bloodlust, duplicity, and love of torture of enemies is nothing new. The savagery of the Muslim hordes, as well as what was required to repel them, is a history lost to most today.

In the days of messengers and notes, it is a thing to behold how armies and navies could be raised, transported and deployed by various nation-states against a common enemy.

The Muslim enenmy has a different face, but the heart remains the same: death to Christians and Jews, and conquest of their lands and wealth for Allah.

Throughout history, Muslims have only understood and respected only one thing: overwhelming brute force applied in their direction.

After 1400 years, the West should have this message engraved in its heart. The aim of the Muslims has not changed.

Ann Coulter was right: we need to invade their lands, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.

But no leader in the West has the will to do so.


11 posted on 04/18/2009 6:10:55 PM PDT by exit82 (The Obama Cabinet: There was more brainpower on Gilligan's Island.)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Good find. Thank you.


12 posted on 04/18/2009 6:12:06 PM PDT by BfloGuy (It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we can expect . . .)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan
It had been a marvel in 732 that a mere one hundred years earlier, Mohammed had launched his army from Medina, to conquer in rapid fire so many of the most glorious capital cities of Christianity--Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Hippo, Tunis, Carthage, and then all of Spain.

Not "all" of Spain.

The old Celtic region of Asturias, in the cold, wet and green land to the north of the Cantabrian Mountains was the last region to fall to the Romans during the reign of Augustus while the rest of Spain to the south had come under Roman control at the end of the Second Punic War. Asturias was never conquered by the Muslims who left it as not being worth the bother after their defeat at Covadonga by Pelagius of Asturias (Pelayo).

From Asturias, the remaining Christians then quickly reconquered Galicia and then the reconquest spread south over the next 700 years. Thus, the old Asturian saying:

"Asturias es España y lo demás tierra reconquistada." (Asturias is Spain. Everything else is merely reconquered territory.)


13 posted on 04/18/2009 6:12:16 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Don’t forget the unsuccessful Arab sieges of Constantinople in AD 683 and 717 that were probably just as decisive as the Battle of Tours, if not more so, in keeping the Arabs out of Europe.


14 posted on 04/18/2009 6:14:49 PM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan
How Europe Escaped Speaking Arabic ............ for a few hundred years
15 posted on 04/18/2009 6:16:48 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

***..and even more scarce was the will to fight for survival.***

Sounds like Europe today.


16 posted on 04/18/2009 6:18:04 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (14. Guns only have two enemies: rust and politicians.)
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To: dennisw

Just wait until these effers get their hands on nukes. Then the real intimidation and war of nerves will begin. By effers I mean Iran and the fundamentalists in Pakistan

Islam has been in eclipse for hundreds of years due to European military superiority due to superior European science and learning and technology. Unfortunately nukes will equalize the situation/ Pakistan has 100 nukes and if/when the crazies take over will they sell them to freelance Jihadist terrorists?


17 posted on 04/18/2009 6:18:23 PM PDT by dennisw (Your action becomes your habit. Your habit becomes your character, that becomes your destiny)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan
For Islam, to lose a territory once Muslim is to incur a religious obligation to wrest it back

It impresses me how this over-riding historical fact obviously applies to the issue of Israel, and how everyone studiously ignores it in their ludicrous "peace process" and the incessant drivel about a "two state" solution. Moslems would do to Spain what they do to Israel, if they could.

18 posted on 04/18/2009 6:18:35 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Yes. If anything, divisions in the West at the time of the Battle of Vienna were even worse than this article indicates. It was left to the Poles to save Vienna, because the Emperor was off to the West, fighting against an invasion by the King of France. And the various Protestant countries such as England considered that this whole affair was none of their business.


19 posted on 04/18/2009 6:19:07 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: exit82
Throughout history, Muslims have only understood and respected only one thing: overwhelming brute force applied in their direction.

Exactly it's the only thing that clamps down on their hyper aggressive ADD
This wolf pack religion only respects the alpha dog

20 posted on 04/18/2009 6:22:07 PM PDT by dennisw (Your action becomes your habit. Your habit becomes your character, that becomes your destiny)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan; All
For Christians who think that the future of the world favors movement in their direction, a study of the latent dynamism of Islam is not a little unsettling.

I'm actually not worried about Islam taking the West over.

Islam is chiefly a danger for two reasons:

1) It DOES have many members who have a penchant for committing acts of violence against "infidels", and who therefore constitute a physical threat to those around them.

2) Islam has a way of pushing the limits with decadent Westerners such that I fear that, especially in Europe, eventually something will snap - and that snap will occur when the Europeans go nuts and start rounding up Muslims and putting them in concentration camps. It's not as if Europe is without precedent in that regard.

I do not believe that Islam is an actual existential threat to the West, however. I do not fear that Islam is just one step away from conquering us (though not for the lack of trying). Far from viewing Islam as a dynamic, forward-moving ideology, I view Islam as regressive, static, and shrinking. Islam has been on the recession for centuries. The West still - to this day - continues to possess increasingly more real power - in military, cultural, and economic term - than the Muslim world does.

Islam has lost, since it's apex, the Iberian peninsula, much of the Asian steppe, most of the Balkans, 90% of the Indian subcontinent, Sicily and Malta, half of Cyprus, Israel, and is losing adherents to Christianity at an ever-accelerating rate in Africa.

Islam is not an existential threat to us. It is merely an annoyance, a cornered, degraded civilisation with a penchant for lashing out in violent, yet ultimately ineffectual, ways.

21 posted on 04/18/2009 6:23:37 PM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Third Parties are for the weak, fearful, and ineffectual among us.)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Every year, on the anniversary of the Battle of Vienna, I e-mail people to remind them of the significance of the day — and why it’s important for them to remember this particular piece of history.


22 posted on 04/18/2009 6:23:55 PM PDT by NewJerseyJoe (Rat mantra: "Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!")
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To: hinckley buzzard
For Islam, to lose a territory once Muslim is to incur a religious obligation to wrest it back

It impresses me how this over-riding historical fact obviously applies to the issue of Israel, and how everyone studiously ignores it in their ludicrous "peace process"

Since when do our idiot politicians study history? They are too busy in the DC social whirl which is intoxicating and inflates their egos

Yes the Muslims are obsessed with re-conquering all territory lost such as Spain and Israel but Jihad means Jihad doesn't end until the whole world is Muslim. This is the Muslim version of peace

23 posted on 04/18/2009 6:27:58 PM PDT by dennisw (Your action becomes your habit. Your habit becomes your character, that becomes your destiny)
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To: NewJerseyJoe

Don’t forget Vlad Dracul:

http://www.eskimo.com/~mwirkk/castle/vlad/vladhist.html

http://www.draculas.info/vlad_iii_dracula/


24 posted on 04/18/2009 6:31:56 PM PDT by combat_boots (God, guns and babies--Veterans, Constitution and legal immigration. The true Americans.)
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To: combat_boots

From one of the articles:

“Death by impalement was slow and painful. Victims sometimes endured for hours or days. Dracula often had the stakes arranged in various geometric patterns. The most common pattern was a ring of concentric circles in the outskirts of a city that was his target. The height of the spear indicated the rank of the victim. The decaying corpses were often left up for months. It was once reported that an invading Turkish army turned back in fright when it encountered thousands of rotting corpses impaled on the banks of the Danube. In 1461 Mohammed II, the conqueror of Constantinople, a man not noted for his squeamishness, returned to Constantinople after being sickened by the sight of twenty thousand impaled corpses outside of Dracula’s capital of Tirgoviste.”

http://www.dogpile.com/dogpile/ws/results/Web/vlad%20dracul%20ottoman/1/417/TopNavigation/Relevance/iq=true/zoom=off/_iceUrlFlag=7?_IceUrl=true


25 posted on 04/18/2009 6:40:25 PM PDT by combat_boots (God, guns and babies--Veterans, Constitution and legal immigration. The true Americans.)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

I guess those people that jumped flaming out of the WTC were just ‘annoyed’ at this little irritation.


26 posted on 04/18/2009 6:44:04 PM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: dennisw

Most informative article. Is the actress Leelee Sobieski a descendant of the King of Poland, I wonder.


27 posted on 04/18/2009 6:46:04 PM PDT by Ciexyz (I heard Joe the Plumber speak 03-30-2009.)
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To: Polybius
You have your history slightly in error. King San Cho Noe I arrived from Cornwall with his knights and baggage and conquered Asturias and Galicia and set up three kingdoms ~ Castile, Leon and Carvajal.

The idea is they would be organized such that one kingdom was kept in reserve as a place of safety while the other two pushed into Moslem (and other Christian) lands in a hammer and tong rhythm.

Turned out they didn't really need to keep a kingdom in reserve. Carvajal was discarded as a kingdom in the first generation after the initial landing.

BTW, took King San Cho Noe I (King Sancho I) just a few weeks to totally bowl over the locals in Galicia, et al. They simply didn't have the technology to fight anyone.

Carvajal lived on as an order in France to which a French Knight who'd fought the Moors would be appointed by the King of France. It's symbol is a large red bull with big horns (or so I've had 'splained to me).

28 posted on 04/18/2009 6:52:47 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Ciexyz

She has stated that her “...great great granduncle” was John III Sobieski,[9] an elected king of Poland who saved Europe with the Polish army in 1683 to lift the siege of Vienna from Ottoman Turks. No proof of her claim has ever been presented.

From Wikipedia


29 posted on 04/18/2009 6:54:09 PM PDT by dennisw (Your action becomes your habit. Your habit becomes your character, that becomes your destiny)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Over the past 400 years Islam has lost more than half the territory it held as late as 1600.

The Romanovs definitely did some damage eh!

BTW, most posters on this thread have such a Western European bias they appear to have no idea what was going on in what became Russia!

30 posted on 04/18/2009 6:56:18 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

bookmarked


31 posted on 04/18/2009 6:56:49 PM PDT by Charlespg
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To: muawiyah

You mean the Tatars (Tamerlane), Azerbaijan, the various ‘stans’ on the outskits of Russian borders, etc? Uzbek, Kazakh, Turkmen...

http://www.euroheritage.net/tatarcrimeahistory.shtml

http://www.azerb.com/az-hist.html

http://www.galenfrysinger.com/merv.htm


32 posted on 04/18/2009 7:07:19 PM PDT by combat_boots (God, guns and babies--Veterans, Constitution and legal immigration. The true Americans.)
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To: muawiyah

And yes, the Romanovs did quite a bit....


33 posted on 04/18/2009 7:08:27 PM PDT by combat_boots (God, guns and babies--Veterans, Constitution and legal immigration. The true Americans.)
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To: combat_boots
Kazan ~ one of the more prosperous parts of Russia these days was just another Islamic backwater a mere 350 years ago.

Then it was cleared of its people.

Unlike the Chechnyans, they didn't come back!

34 posted on 04/18/2009 7:18:52 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

BFL


35 posted on 04/18/2009 7:22:07 PM PDT by Skooz (Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us)
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To: Tolsti2
I guess those people that jumped flaming out of the WTC were just ‘annoyed’ at this little irritation.

Don't be an emotionalistic, unthinking animal, okay?

9-11 didn't deliver the United States to Islam. 9-11 just pissed us off so that we smacked a good part of Islam around like it was a red-headed stepchild.

Like I said, Islam is not an existential threat. It's an annoyance which is ultimately, despite its best efforts, unable to do anything more than prick us here or there. Islam will not, and cannot, conquer us.

36 posted on 04/18/2009 7:26:11 PM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Third Parties are for the weak, fearful, and ineffectual among us.)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

They haven’t escaped yet!


37 posted on 04/18/2009 7:37:28 PM PDT by calex59
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To: muawiyah
BTW, most posters on this thread have such a Western European bias they appear to have no idea what was going on in what became Russia!

Or China...

Battle of Talas

38 posted on 04/18/2009 7:38:47 PM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin is a smart missile aimed at the heart of the left!)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Thread of the day!


39 posted on 04/18/2009 7:41:20 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Don't spread my wealth, spread my work ethic!)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

It’s not all our fault though. The climate disaster that precipitated the Dark Ages in 535 AD created enough of a problem in China that civil government was effectively nonexistent for the next 300 years. Accordingly, whatever was going on in the Chinese West was not recorded all that well, nor did it “make the news”, that sort of thing simply not existing.


40 posted on 04/18/2009 7:44:12 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Fiji Hill

I’d argue more so. Not to minimize the importance of Tours, but the threat from the East was much more dire. If Constantinople had fallen, Eastern and much of Central Europe would’ve lain wide open for muslim conquest. Furthermore, it’d do away with the only significant Christian naval presence in the Mediterranean.

However, I see both as very important bookend victories which limited muslim gains in Europe and dashed their aura of invincibility.


41 posted on 04/18/2009 7:48:58 PM PDT by Constantine XI Palaeologus ("Vicisti, Galilaee")
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan; nickcarraway; Lady In Blue; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; Catholicguy; ...
**The Greatest Sea Battle in History: Lepanto, October 1571**

How Europe Escaped Speaking Arabic
The Battle of Lepanto
Civilization in the Balance: The Battle of Lepanto and Election ‘08

LEPANTO
A Call To Prayer: This Lepanto Moment [Repost]
Lepanto, 1571: The Battle That Saved Europe
Celebrating the Battle of Lepanto
Clash of civilizations: Battle of Lepanto revisited

Lepanto, Bertone e Battesimo, Oh My!
Lepanto Sunday
Our Lady of the Rosary of La Naval (A Mini-Lepanto in the Philippines)
Swiss Guards at the Battle of Lepanto, 7 October 1571
Battle of Lepanto

LEPANTO, 7 OCTOBER 1571: The Defense of Europe
Battle of Lepanto
Remember Lepanto!
The Battle of Lepanto
On This Day In History, The Battle of Lepanto
The Battle of Lepanto

Chesterton's Lepanto
The Miracle At Lepanto...
Lepanto
The Naval Battle of Lepanto
The Battle of Lepanto

42 posted on 04/18/2009 7:49:46 PM PDT by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

While I believe that communism is a more serious threat than islam is to the U.S., I wouldn’t downplay the importance of Europe’s growing mohammedan population. Coupled with Europe’s dwindling population and the moral ambivalence of her populace, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to see Europe succumbing to islam within the next 100 or so years.

Man, now I’m depressed... :(


43 posted on 04/18/2009 8:02:16 PM PDT by Constantine XI Palaeologus ("Vicisti, Galilaee")
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To: Salvation; Conservative Coulter Fan

global jihad bump


44 posted on 04/18/2009 8:17:13 PM PDT by Dajjal (Obama is an Ericksonian NLP hypnotist.)
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To: Salvation; Jim Robinson

Thanks very much for the ping, Salvation. Thanks for the post, Conservative Coulter Fan. BUMP for morning read.

/FR...but its value/life/freedom goes on and I am thankful for it.


45 posted on 04/18/2009 8:18:14 PM PDT by PGalt
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan
Outstanding post.

Once again Santayana's warning is very relevant.

It doesn't look as though the civilized world is paying attention.

46 posted on 04/18/2009 8:20:35 PM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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To: muawiyah
Good point. There is some evidence that it might have been "proto-Krakatoa" that exploded that year.

The Dark Ages May Have Really Been Dimmer

47 posted on 04/18/2009 8:22:33 PM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin is a smart missile aimed at the heart of the left!)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
"Islam is not an existential threat to us. It is merely an annoyance, a cornered, degraded civilization with a penchant for lashing out in violent, yet ultimately ineffectual, ways. "

George Patton wrote a poem just for people just like you.

48 posted on 04/18/2009 8:27:35 PM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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To: Conservative Coulter Fan

Note


49 posted on 04/18/2009 8:30:29 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (Keelhaul Congress! It's the sensible solution to restore Command to the People.)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
“Islam is not an existential threat to us. It is merely an annoyance”

OK, you say that they have lost territory, but with asymmetrical war and Weapons of Mass destruction, it doesn't take a large number of men to wipe us out.

Just one nuke in a dozen of our major cities. They don't need huge armies. Right?

50 posted on 04/18/2009 8:36:58 PM PDT by garjog (Used to be liberals were just people to disagree with. Now they are a threat to our existence.)
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