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Obama Open to Prosecution of Officials Who Cleared Interrogation Tactics
Foxnews.com ^ | 04/21/09 | uncredited

Posted on 04/21/2009 10:32:08 AM PDT by Big_Monkey

President Obama left open the door Tuesday for charges to be brought against Bush administration lawyers who justified harsh interrogation techniques, though he continued to argue that CIA agents who used those tactics should not be prosecuted.

The president showed wiggle room on the issue as he faces calls from Democratic lawmakers and organizations like the American Civil Liberties Union to support such charges. Asked about the possibility of prosecution related to the interrogation program, the president deferred to Attorney General Eric Holder.

"With respect to those who formulate those legal decisions, I would say that that is going to be more of a decision for the attorney general within the parameters of various laws," Obama said. "And I don't want to prejudge that. ... There are a host of very complicated issues involved there."

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bho44; bhodoj; bush; cia; interrogation; obama; prosecution; terrorism
Here it comes - the start of a two or three year criminal investigation into all things Bush.
1 posted on 04/21/2009 10:32:08 AM PDT by Big_Monkey
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To: Big_Monkey; Owl_Eagle; Sam's Army; Darksheare; pissant; najida; r-q-tek86; blackie; ...

PING!!!!


2 posted on 04/21/2009 10:37:08 AM PDT by Jersey Republican Biker Chick (You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.)
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To: Big_Monkey

i dont get how rendering a legal decision can be a crime. isnt that what lawyers do?

this sounds like barack waffling, nothing gonna happen. we arent that nuts. yet.


3 posted on 04/21/2009 10:37:09 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: Big_Monkey
0bama starts to build Jamie Gorelick Wall II.

Another stupid move that endangers Americans.

4 posted on 04/21/2009 10:41:45 AM PDT by TYVets
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To: Big_Monkey

This is an extremely treacherous road that Obama is traveling. Exposing national intelligence does not seem like something a president has ever done.

Notice the “treated like a Rock Star” statements that the media used in reference to Obama’s appearance at the CIA? Look closely at the crowd. It looked like a bunch of secretaries, low level employees, and general Obama supporters.

Please...treated like a rock star? Can you imagine the seething anger the agents must feel right now?


5 posted on 04/21/2009 10:43:18 AM PDT by Matt Hatter
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To: TYVets

Banana Republic. Prosecute and persecute your political enemies. If Zero tries to prosecute members of our armed forces and the Bush adminstration it could lead to the revolution that none of us want.


6 posted on 04/21/2009 10:44:39 AM PDT by Oldexpat
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To: Big_Monkey

I don’t know how you prosecute a lawyer for what at worst would have been bad judgement. But it might be fun to prosecute OJ’s lawyers.


7 posted on 04/21/2009 10:46:10 AM PDT by SJackson (Barack Obama went to Harvard and became an educated fool. Rep. Bobby Rush)
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To: Oldexpat
Revolution? There's one underway right now. A revolution from above.
8 posted on 04/21/2009 10:50:09 AM PDT by RobbyS (ECCE homouestions there was a LONG pause before)
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To: TYVets

Politically...if you were a democratic representative or senator in the south...you’d really start to count up how much support you have in 2010’s elections at this point. If the Bush prosecutions go forward...your support starts to erode. This is problem number one.

Second, four months ago...there was a small discussion over powers that Bush has after he leaves office. If anyone tried to frame any member of the upper level of the Bush administration...then Bush could come out and say it was fully approved by him...thus forcing the attorney general to consider just how far he was really willing to play this game. The legal discussion then went to say that he had the power as president to assume responsibility, and that the AG could not touch Bush (even today). This would take an impeachment process to take on a ex-president...as was laid out in this discussion. There isn’t anything written into the constitution over this...but whatever happens on your watch...is your presidential action...and not that of the current president to toss into court over.

Third and final...there is this huge 400-lb guerrilla sitting there. If you start a process like this...and any 9-11 event occurs, then the public starts to question your wit and ability to corner the terrorists. If Obama feels charmed presently and confident of no 9-11 crisis period...he might go for the option. But he’s totally finished as an effective leader if another 9-11 occurs during this chase-down of Bush.


9 posted on 04/21/2009 10:53:34 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: Big_Monkey

Release ALL of the related documents, you POS. INCLUDING the lives saved by use of these techniques.


10 posted on 04/21/2009 10:55:45 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: Big_Monkey
The Damage Has Already Been Done.

Just as our operatives in the CIA have been intimidated by the inexcusable threats of the Obama administration, subsequently withdrawn, to prosecute CIA operatives, so now everyone who sets his hand to put pen to paper to render a legal opinion or simply a policy memorandum will hesitate to touch the pen to paper.

The liberals always loved to talk about the "chilling effect" upon free speech of a policy they do not like. Now they have become masters of the art. The Democrats have always tended to criminalize policy differences. Now Obama has one more tool to keep his administration under control.

There is literally nothing this man has done in office which is incongruent with a radical Marxist seeking due aggrandize personal power and irretrievably break our democracy.


11 posted on 04/21/2009 10:56:12 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: SJackson
"don’t know how you prosecute a lawyer for what at worst would have been bad judgement.

When you think of it, it really stunning and sobering that this is even being entertained. As you point out, these are bar-certified, well respected attorneys that did what they were charged with doing; rendering legal opinions.

I'm stunned. I can't recall anything similar in the history of the republic.

12 posted on 04/21/2009 10:58:59 AM PDT by Big_Monkey
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To: pepsionice

When there is a 9-11 type crisis, it will be pinned on ‘right wing extremists.’


13 posted on 04/21/2009 11:04:59 AM PDT by MantillaMilitant
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To: Big_Monkey
"open to..." in Obama-speak means nothing is really going to happen, but it's necessary to placate the liberal nut "base". In other words, push the can down the road until it's forgotten or needed to be reminded to flame the fires again when the polls tank even more.

Really acting on this "threat" would be idiotic for many reasons, not the least of them would be the legal nightmare it will cause them and the fact that it could eventually backfire be used against him and "his people" - same reasons that Clinton was "generally for" International Court, but in reality he was not because it could endanger himself and his gang.

So, all talk for the crazed base, but no action should be expected outcome. Or, as they say in Texas, All hat, no cattle.

14 posted on 04/21/2009 11:05:14 AM PDT by CutePuppy (If you don't ask the right questions you may not get the right answers)
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To: Big_Monkey

They are playing with fire.

This reckless abuse of power needs to be stopped by 10 of millions of patriots making it clear that this game is over.

They can lockup 10’s of thousands of us, but millions of very pissed of Americans can make them a deal that they can not refuse. The Tea Party’s are a very good step and I hope they work, yet I am doubtful that it will be enough to turn these arrogant traitors around.


15 posted on 04/21/2009 11:07:35 AM PDT by Gator113 (I'm a PROUD RIGHT WING EXTREMIST.... Obama has failed, IMPEACH Obama NOW....)
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To: Oldexpat
Banana Republic. Prosecute and persecute your political enemies.

Actually, this is typical of all collectivists worldwide, throughout history.

I assert that the left at this time is trying to corner everyone that disagrees with them with the intent of forcing some action that justifies interning them or murdering them.

16 posted on 04/21/2009 11:08:55 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: nathanbedford

“The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism.” Karl Marx


17 posted on 04/21/2009 11:10:03 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: Gator113

That’s exactly what they want to happen - to justify the murder of their political enemies under color of and legitimized by defending the duly elected government.


18 posted on 04/21/2009 11:11:03 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: MantillaMilitant

That could very well be the beginning of the end of this craziness.


19 posted on 04/21/2009 11:11:03 AM PDT by Gator113 (I'm a PROUD RIGHT WING EXTREMIST.... Obama has failed, IMPEACH Obama NOW....)
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To: beebuster2000
I don't think he has quite decided to go ahead and try to indict Cheney, Gonzales and others, but I think he would like to in order to please his hard core base. Whether it goes forward or not apparently depends on obama finding 2 or 3 RINO's to provide the dim attack dogs with cover for a "bi-partisan" commission. It shouldn't be too hard to find them. The only thing that would stop it would be if obama feared of political backlash, and he knows the press would cover him and support him as a brave hero.

Frankly, it might be good if he went full bore on this. There has to come a time when a clear line has to be drawn in the sand and people have to decide which side they are on. I say let's get it on.

20 posted on 04/21/2009 11:12:20 AM PDT by San Jacinto (gorebull warming -- the Socialists' Shortcut.)
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To: MrB

True. If they beg for it long enough, they are going to get exactly the response they deserve.

It would be a lose, lose... but this theft of a Nation has got to stop.


21 posted on 04/21/2009 11:15:03 AM PDT by Gator113 (I'm a PROUD RIGHT WING EXTREMIST.... Obama has failed, IMPEACH Obama NOW....)
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To: Big_Monkey
You've been a bad boy Bush...how dare you start policies that I will continue and enlarge....

22 posted on 04/21/2009 11:28:44 AM PDT by Lucky9teen (Redneck Radicalized Right-Wing Extremist Recruiter - see Constitution for details!)
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To: Big_Monkey

Remember: Do something good for America and you’re an enemy of the piss ant of the United States for life.


23 posted on 04/21/2009 11:48:00 AM PDT by albie
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To: Big_Monkey; Alamo-Girl; joanie-f; hosepipe
Here it comes - the start of a two or three year criminal investigation into all things Bush.

Yep. A Great Big, Fat Distraction to keep us from noticing what Zero and his pals are really, actually doing policy-wise (i.e., gutting the Constitution at every turn and doing everything in their power to break the back of the American middle class). Plus it's a nice way to further divide Americans and increase the general "noise level" of society.

The same reasoning that yields the insight, "Never let a good crisis go to waste," also justifies the manufacture of "artificial crises" whenever they are politically useful.

You'll recall that Zero ran on the promise of bringing a divided nation "together." After a while, one begins to realize that whatever it is that Zero says, its opposite is the actual truth about his intent. He is not a "uniter"; he is a divider: His political philosophy, methods, and tactics depend on agitating states of "us" vs. "them." In other words, on the principle of "divide and conquer."

24 posted on 04/21/2009 11:49:52 AM PDT by betty boop (All truthful knowledge begins and ends in experience. — Albert Einstein)
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To: Oldexpat
If Zero tries to prosecute members of our armed forces and the Bush adminstration it could lead to the revolution that none of us want.

I want it.

There is no way that Zer0 or the demoRAT socialists & media shills will ever go peacefully. They will need to be dragged kicking & screaming out.
.

25 posted on 04/21/2009 12:49:31 PM PDT by rcrngroup
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To: Big_Monkey

Let the show trials begin...


26 posted on 04/21/2009 1:28:14 PM PDT by americanophile
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To: betty boop
America has been and is NOT NOW prepared for having a virtual traitor as President.. We dodged a bullet with Clinton but having done nothing(republicans) about that.. O'bama may be too late.. I'm not sure that Bush Jr also.. is not part of the cabal array against us..

The President, Congress, most of the various Medias, Academia, Hollywood, the democrats, and much of the republican party are Socialists or Dupes(drones)..

They will not go away easily and without force.. violent force.. Marching protesters might have worked 20 years ago.. but not now.. And I hope I'm wrong but it appears Fox News(O'Really,Hannity,Beck) is just relieveing seething pressure.. from the unwashed masses.. so THAT it does NOT EXPLODE...

The malafactors have thought this "Coup" out quite deeply..
If the Sheeple don't STAMPEDE(get violent) nothing will really happen..

27 posted on 04/21/2009 2:22:59 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: betty boop

“... As Thomas Jefferson said, “Great innovations should not be forced on slender majorities.”...”

And this is what Obama and the radical left is doing with
this administration, we see it happening, and refuse to
accept it.


28 posted on 04/21/2009 2:27:36 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Big_Monkey

This just proves that when Obama released those memos it was nothing more than a political move to damage the Bush administration, nothing more!

To hell with whether it damages the country!

It sounds like Rahm Emanuel is running the country instead of “KING OBAMA”!


29 posted on 04/21/2009 2:31:29 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: kcvl

So what happened to all the “...it does no good to revisit the crimes of the past; we must move forward,” stuff he was spouting on his Apology and Appeasement Tour.


30 posted on 04/21/2009 2:40:07 PM PDT by HusbandMan
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To: betty boop
So very true. Thank you for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ!
31 posted on 04/21/2009 9:13:09 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: tet68; Alamo-Girl; wagglebee; hosepipe
And this is what Obama and the radical left is doing with this administration, we see it happening, and refuse to accept it.

At bottom, I think what we "refuse to accept" is the deliberate, fully conscious gutting of the Constitution — the foundation of our rule of law, and the means whereby the sovereign people delegated authority to the federal government to carry out a very limited set of responsibilities on our behalf. Nowadays, however, 90 percent of what the federal government is doing is being done without any constitutional warrant or authority whatsoever. And so the question becomes: Which is the "nullity" — the federal government as presently constituted, or the Constitution itself?

My own view is that the president is clearly acting in violation of his Oath of Office — to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States and, by implication, the People of the United States. He is, therefore, acting wholly without constitutional authority and thereby is actively violating the will of the people so eloquently expressed in the Preamble of that document.

The Framers had a word for a president (or congressman or senator or any other public official) who would do such a thing: usurper.

In short, this is an unconstitutional president who is clearly eligible for impeachment on the basis of a litany of specific unconstitutional acts.

Not that Congress can be expected to act in this regard. For Congress is presently just as unconstitutional as the president, in the degree to which it acts without clear constitutional authority. Which is most of the time nowadays. There are very few, if any, Congress critturs who have not themselves willfully and knowingly breached their own oaths of office.

What would the Framers say about a situation like this? They would likely say that if the federal government is acting outside the scope of its constitutionally delegated powers, it is usurping the God-given rights of the People. It is acting as a tyrant. To the extent that it ignores the Constitution — which is the foundation, not only of our rule of law but also of the very framework of our government, and the only basis of the legitimate authority of our public officials — then we are technically in a state of anarchy — of "no government." That being the case, any and all unconstitutional edicts and regulations are "nullities" having no force of law; they simply are not binding on citizens.

The Framers would have concluded that, under such circumstances, only the sovereign People themselves can restore a just public order. We'd once again be fully justified in saying, "...when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce [the people] under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security...." [emphasis added]

Well, that pretty much looks like our present situation to me. The big, so far unanswered question is: What will the People do about it?

Then there is yet another nagging question: Do the People feel they have any responsibility in this regard? How that question is answered likely will determine whether we Americans and our posterity are to live as free men or as slaves.

32 posted on 04/22/2009 2:10:26 PM PDT by betty boop (All truthful knowledge begins and ends in experience. — Albert Einstein)
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To: betty boop
[ Well, that pretty much looks like our present situation to me. The big, so far unanswered question is: What will the People do about it? ]

True.. The people have the government they want and deserve NOW...
It takes only a few to revolt.. as it did the first time..

33 posted on 04/22/2009 2:59:04 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: joanie-f
joanie, I meant to ping you to Post #32. Thought you might find it of interest.
34 posted on 04/22/2009 4:00:22 PM PDT by betty boop (All truthful knowledge begins and ends in experience. — Albert Einstein)
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To: hosepipe; tet68; Alamo-Girl; joanie-f
It takes only a few to revolt.. as it did the first time..

It's a weird situation, dear brother in Christ. Probably no more than 10 percent of the population (and quite possibly much less) is devoted to the destruction of our system of liberty under law, with equal justice for all — such destruction being the greatest hope of progressivists of every stripe second only to the murder of God. Probably somewhere between 20–30 percent of the population would be adamantly opposed to such intents and purposes. The "in-between" 60 percent or so are totally clueless.

And yet that 10 percent has its fingers all over the buttons of state power, and is doing everything it can to marginalize and destroy the dissenting 20–30 percent, in part by manipulating the clueless 60 percent into believing that the 20–30 contingent are "right-wing radical fascists" who are trying to destroy the American polity. Thus the clueless stay clueless.

Still, remembering the situation of the first American Revolution, it was instigated, motivated, and ultimately carried to success because something like 25 percent of the colonial population had the temerity to insist that Americans, born free, refuse to live under tyranny.

I suspect these were better men than we typically have nowadays. An American future of liberty under law may very well depend on my being wrong about this.

35 posted on 04/22/2009 4:22:55 PM PDT by betty boop (All truthful knowledge begins and ends in experience. — Albert Einstein)
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; tet68
Virtually everything that has occurred over the past few years has occurred via an inconceivably wicked playbook. Trouble is, most of us are too imbued with a conscience to anticipate each move, until it’s upon us. Once we are witness to successive acts in their drama, we slap our collective foreheads and proclaim, ‘Of course! Why didn’t I see that one coming?’

Major parts of the fascists’ playbook that are already being realized:

We’re into the ‘create a diversionary demon’ (a sub-heading of several of the above) stage now, so beautifully described by betty (once again following Saul Alinsky's credo that, in order to seize increasing power, one must 'frame a villain'):

What makes this tactic even more surreal is the fact that they are programming us (well not actually us, but the tens of millions of useful idiots among whom we live) to believe that we must punish those of our leaders who have caused undue physical and emotional pain to our enemies.

And who are these enemies that we must protect (by handcuffing our own protectors)? They’re people whose principal membership includes those who relish gassing their own countrymen, and decapitating (sometimes via sawing), burning alive, and disemboweling those who don’t believe as they do.

And to think that, a mere decade ago, we thought the Wag the Dog diversion was ludicrous!

Betty’s simple, yet profound, question needs to ring in our hearts every minute of every day, until the answer becomes apparent:

I know how I believe that question will be answered. And I pray, daily and fervently, that I am wrong.

~ joanie

36 posted on 04/22/2009 4:34:46 PM PDT by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: betty boop
[ I suspect these were better men than we typically have nowadays. ]

Most were I suspect.. but maybe 25% of them have some honor..
With the right gumption 25% might do it again..

37 posted on 04/22/2009 6:48:28 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: joanie-f
IF the sheeple STAMPEDE the wolves will scatter..
I'm for stampedeing the sheep..
38 posted on 04/22/2009 6:51:34 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: betty boop
Thank you so very much for your outstanding essay-post, dearest sister in Christ!

Truly, few of the elected officials seem to take their responsibilities seriously - much less as sacred duties.

And the average voter is probably preoccupied with his personal life, complacent where he can be and ignorant of the ramifications of things happening in government now.

I don't know what the wake-up call will be, but there must be one before the voters will demand a roll back of these usurpations of power.

39 posted on 04/22/2009 9:06:59 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: joanie-f
What makes this tactic even more surreal is the fact that they are programming us (well not actually us, but the tens of millions of useful idiots among whom we live) to believe that we must punish those of our leaders who have caused undue physical and emotional pain to our enemies.

And who are these enemies that we must protect (by handcuffing our own protectors)? They’re people whose principal membership includes those who relish gassing their own countrymen, and decapitating (sometimes via sawing), burning alive, and disemboweling those who don’t believe as they do.

Indeed. Thank you for sharing your insights, dear joanie-f.

40 posted on 04/22/2009 9:11:40 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: joanie-f
Hi Joanie.
The persecution of a previous opposition administration
IS a tactic of the left, when in power use it to destroy
your political enemies. The liberals are using the playbook
bequeathed to them from their communist instructors.
In defeat, make accusations of unfairness. In victory,
crush your opponents. There is NO “bipartisanship” on
the part of the left, it's just a tactic to be used to
maneuver opponents.

Obama and his minions are tearing at the very fabric of
our polity, using all the tools the left can bring to bear,
Class warfare, collectivization of special interests,
recruitment of the young into political ranks in the name of national service, the use of the media as cheerleaders
of various schemes designed to subtly undermine those values and conducts that America has held from it's
inception , but now disused and untaught to succeeding
generations, even vilified, in those selfsame “Public”
schools we all are forced to pay for.

Obama knows that his time is limited, his door of opportunity did not open wide, hence his push to
create uncertainty among the electorate to keep
any opposition from forming.

Make no mistake, Obama is in charge of all that happens.
He floats a trial balloon, and if the reaction is negative
he denies it, all the while his cohort is pushing forward
with his agenda. It's a good way to keep the wool pulled
over the eyes of the supporters who are now becoming uncomfortable with the choice they made.

We are dealing with a determined and skilled leftist holding the highest office in our land, a situation unthinkable just a few years ago.

Just a few thoughts on the current scene.
Tet.

41 posted on 04/23/2009 12:15:11 AM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Big_Monkey

Bump to the top.


42 posted on 04/23/2009 5:48:44 AM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: joanie-f; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; tet68
I know how I believe that question will be answered. And I pray, daily and fervently, that I am wrong.

Don't worry yourself joanie. Something is going to happen that ought to convince everyone but the brain dead that Zero's been running his administration like a Mafia don executing a classic Chicago-style pay-to-play operation. The corruption reeks; there's very likely criminality through and through. Perhaps it will wake up the folks. Watch Bill O'Reilly tonight if you can. He's got one tidbit he's about to pop....

As for me, I pray for God's continued blessings on America. May His Will be done. If the only way or best way (under the circumstances) America can continue as "the shining city on a hill" dedicated to liberty and justice, is to first undergo divine chastisement, then may God's Will be done. And May His strength be with us who love Him and our country.

Rather than worry, it's better to find constructive things to do. Like write op-eds; talk to your family and friends, calmly and gently with the ones who disagree with you; get involved with a political campaign — the Congressional elections next year will be here before you know it. And help to swell the numbers at upcoming tea parties!!!! Speak truth to power!!!

It might not seem like much. Indeed, it isn't, given what we need. But it's a start. And if the Spirit be with us, perhaps we can get up a real head of steam and begin to make a long-overdue difference in the way Washington is run.

One thing seems clear to me. Zero and Congress cannot continue to ignore the voice of the people. This voice is coming mainly out of Main Street, middle-class America — and it's vast. The dissent does not seem to be a party phenomenon. At least it didn't appear so at the Boston Tea Party. There were a decent number of Democrats there. But I didn't notice any "counter-protest" activity.

He can't shut us up; and I don't see how he can get away with censoring or criminalizing free speech in a peaceable setting, though he may find it in his interest to do that. He could unleash "thugs" I suppose.... That could be interesting!

BTW, I do not believe that Zero has any scruples about hurting people. And that's a cheery thought, isn't it?

Meanwhile, Keep praying!

Thank you for your excellent analysis, joanie-f!

43 posted on 04/23/2009 3:58:35 PM PDT by betty boop (All truthful knowledge begins and ends in experience. — Albert Einstein)
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To: betty boop
As for me, I pray for God's continued blessings on America. May His Will be done. If the only way or best way (under the circumstances) America can continue as "the shining city on a hill" dedicated to liberty and justice, is to first undergo divine chastisement, then may God's Will be done. And May His strength be with us who love Him and our country.

Amen.

Thank you so very much for your outstanding essay-post, dearest sister in Christ!

44 posted on 04/23/2009 9:00:01 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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