Missionary's arrest sparks discussion, fear

Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 4/24/2009 | Sheena Mcfarland

[greyfoxx39]

We’ve had illegals harbored by churches and illegals given aid by church groups - I’ve never heard, though, of churches wherein illegal aliens carry out church business under church protection/sanction.

I agree. The bald statement of the lengths gone to in order to circumvent the law is eyebrow raising, to say the least.

The "Theocracy of Utah" is a US state in name only. It is not unusual to see laws bent and stretched to the benefit of the LDS church there. It is common practice for the legislators and LDS leaders to meet and discuss impending legislation. From the LDS church-owned Deseret news, LDS Church leaders have told legislative bosses that the "element of humanity" should be re-introduced to the state's immigration debates.

Before each general session, GOP and Democratic leaders in the House and Senate sit down separately with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints special affairs committee, a group made up of church general authorities, church public relations officials and their lobbyists, to discuss any items on the minds of both legislators and church leaders.

House Minority Whip David Litvack, D-Salt Lake, said the Democrats' meeting with church officials brought up several issues, but the immigration discussion was the most touching for him personally.

"I interpreted what was said as this: 'Take a step back, be calm, and above all remember that we are dealing with human beings here,"' said Litvack, who is Jewish and has himself called for cooler heads in dealing with the often emotional issue of illegal immigration. House Majority Leader Dave Clark, R-Santa Clara, a member of the LDS Church himself, said immigration issues did not take up much time in the Republicans' meeting with church leaders. "But they did say we all need to approach this subject with compassion."

When asked about the legislative meetings, church spokesman Rob Howe said, "We communicated our policy ... The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has taken no position regarding currently proposed immigration legislation."

Link

[greyfoxx39]

Again, if a potential missionary was guilty of ANY OTHER CRIME then they would not be considered “worthy” to serve.

Since missionaries have to be interviewed by their bishop before entering the temple before their mission, one wonders how THIS question from the bishop's interview is answered: 9 "Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?"

Temple Recommend Questions

[reaganaut]

Since missionaries have to be interviewed by their bishop before entering the temple before their mission, one wonders how THIS question from the bishop’s interview is answered: 9 “Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?”

- - - - - - - - - - -

Answer: “The Government doesn’t count.” I mean, really, the LDS have gone outside the US government before when it benefits their cause.

[reaganaut]

“I interpreted what was said as this: ‘Take a step back, be calm, and above all remember that we are dealing with human beings here,”’

- - - - - - - - - - -
Translation: “They make more money here and therefore pay us more in tithing then they would if we sent them home.”

[MHGinTN]

“You, OTOH, seemed to be consumed by an emotion (I noticed all the caps & bold print) that I cannot fathom.” Bwahahahahaha, you’re a Maroon, GET IT?

[1COUNTER-MORTER-68]

Dont they interview these “missionaries”

Arent they vetted and checked out thoroughly ???

Dont they make sure they have the proper documentation, ANY TIME during that TWO YEARS ???

I thought they “raised the bar “”

I thought that “god” called out sent out the missionaries ???

Is it the mormon god’s fault ???

Didnt he have discernment and KNOW that this guy was an illegal alien ???
~~~
Magick Drawers ???...;0)

[aMorePerfectUnion]

magic drawers placemarker

[Elsie]

GROAN!

[Elsie]

Mormons are not polygamists

TRUE Mormons are!!

The NON SLC bunch - (Not the one's who were AFRAID of the United States Government) - actually believe and FOLLOW D&C 132 - MORMON Scripture that has NEVER been rescinded by GOD.

[Elsie]

Believe as you will, as will I - it is America after all.

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KJV

 Galatians 1:6-9

 6.  I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
 7.  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
 8.  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 9.  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 

 

 

 

ANYBODY???

 

Like this fine looking fellow???

 

 

 

 

 

2 Corinthians 11:12-15

 12.  But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
 13.  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
 14.  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
 15.  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

 

Like THESE guys??

 

 

 

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19

 

 

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

 

 

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Ephesians 2:1-2 

1.  And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

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1 Corinthians 4:17
  For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

 

1 Corinthians 11:2
   Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15
   Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

 

2 Timothy 1:13
   Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

 

2 Timothy 3:14-15
 14.  But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
 15.  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[Elsie]

 

Zakeet is simply a Mormon Hater

That is a lie.

 

Indeed We ANTI's are MormonISM haters...

 

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NIV Acts 6:3-5
 3.  Brothers, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them
 4.  and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word."
 5.  This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism.

 

NIV Acts 11:19-26
 19.  Now those who had been scattered by the persecution in connection with Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, telling the message only to Jews.
 20.  Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus.
 21.  The Lord's hand was with them, and a great number of people believed and turned to the Lord.
 22.  News of this reached the ears of the church at Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas to Antioch.
 23.  When he arrived and saw the evidence of the grace of God, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all their hearts.
 24.  He was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and faith, and a great number of people were brought to the Lord.
 25.  Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul,
 26.  and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

 

NIV Acts 13:12
   When the proconsul saw what had happened, he believed, for he was amazed at the teaching about the Lord.

 

NIV Acts 17:16-19
 16.  While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols.
 17.  So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?"

 

NIV Acts 18:11
   So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.

 

NIV Romans 6:17
   But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted.

 

NIV Romans 12:6-7
 6.  We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his  faith.
 7.  If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach;

 

 

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Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

 

 

Romans 6:17
   But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted.

 

 Romans 15:4
   For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

 Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

 

 

1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

 

1 Corinthians 11:1-2
 1.  Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.

 

 

2 Corinthians 11:12
  And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. 

 

 

Ephesians 4:14
   Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 3:6
   In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

 

 1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

 

 1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

 

 1 Timothy 4:11-13
 11.  Command and teach these things.
 12.  Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity.
 13.  Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching.

 

 

 2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

 

 

2 Timothy 2:2
  And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others.

 

2 Timothy 3:10-11
 10.  You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance,
 11.  persecutions, sufferings--what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them.

 

 

Hebrews 13:8-9
 8.  Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
 9.  Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value to those who eat them.

 

 

2 John 1:10
   If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

 

 

Jude 1:3

  Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

 

---

Titus 2:1
  You must  teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

Zakeet is simply a Mormon Hater

That is a lie.

 

[reaganaut]

Mormons are not polygamists

TRUE Mormons are!!

The NON SLC bunch - (Not the one’s who were AFRAID of the United States Government) - actually believe and FOLLOW D&C 132 - MORMON Scripture that has NEVER been rescinded by GOD.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - —

I posted this on an another thread but it applies here as well:

The LDS, considers itself to be a RESTORED Church. It says that the Church founded my Joseph Smith is a COMPLETE restoration of the church Jesus Christ founded while on earth.

Polygamy was given to JS by God in a revelation. To allow/promote reform/removal of those things means the LDS is NO LONGER a RESTORED church, it is a REFORMED church and thus NOT the church given to Joseph Smith. It has apostatized from itself.

[Elsie]

I mean, really, the LDS have gone outside the US government before when it benefits their cause.

And they snivel away; saying "Yessa Massa" when they are threatened with losing their STUFF...

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1890: Manifesto (a statement denouncing polygamy)

"Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

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The Mormon church Organization; based in Salt Lake City, does not practice Polygamy any more.

They decided to stop the practice for fear of losing all their worldly goods.

It was banned in 1890!.

  

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    OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

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President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.

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EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us.

(Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)

 

 

 

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it.

 

(From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)

 

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What kind of  'Leadership' is THIS???

 

compared to...

 

 

 

 

Hebrews 11:35-40
 35.  Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
 36.  Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
 37.  They were stoned ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated--
 38.  the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. 
 

 

or compared to...

 

Acts 4:19.  But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God.

 

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So much for an 'Everlasting Covenant' that thundered out of Heaven!!!

 

Well; it DID last about 47 years!

[Colofornian]

Thirdly the Bible says that “God is no respecter of persons.” Thus His church must treat all alike, whether citizen or not.

(Wow! By this standard next time you see a man leave a bank with a gun & money that's just had a die explode upon it, be sure you think back to this line of yours: ...the Bible says that “God is no respecter of persons” -- Thus His church must treat all alike, whether citizen or not -- and by this token, ya gotta offer the guy a hitchhiker ride if that's something you'd normally do minus the gun & $. We wouldn't wancha practicing "favoritism" or somethin' like that.)

[Colofornian]

The Mormon Church is comprised of volunteers.

Yeah, "volunteers" like bishops who in the early 90s were getting over $40,000 in "stipends" for expenses, etc. (That was 1990s era).

Nearly every member has a “calling”

(Well, what title do you give to the proxy baptized? "Necro Salvation Specialists?")

[svcw]

When you say “calling” what do you mean?

[reaganaut]

(Well, what title do you give to the proxy baptized? “Necro Salvation Specialists?”)
- - - - - - - - - - - - -

They are called teenagers.

Once again teenagers get the jobs no one else really wants.

On more than one occasion, when I was at BYU, I heard a newly endowed or soon to be endowed LDS member state that they were grateful because now they could do endowments for the dead rather than the baptisms.

[Colofornian]

I thought that “god” called out sent out the missionaries ??? Is it the mormon god’s fault ???

A good read, TN. If you look @ the many D&C passages, Smith claimed that the Mormon god was setting apart many missionaries for thus & thus service...even David W. Patten.

Joseph prophesied -- "Verily thus saith the Lord" (D&C 114:1) that David W. Patten would "perform a mission unto me ["me"=the Mormon god] next spring in company with others, even twelve including himself, to testify of my name and bear glad tidings unto all the world." (D&C 114:1)

As it turned out, David W. Patten died, and never made the mission in company with 11 others.

The Mormon god didn't know this in advance?

Deut. 18 says if a prophet declares something to occur -- and it doesn't happen -- that prophet is a false one. Joseph Smith prophesied falsely about Patten -- and make that "god" out to be a sovereign fool -- less than omniscient.

[Tainan]

I really do not appreciate your referencing my post, #15, in the manner of a "hate" or "Mormon hater" comment. It is a false accusation and it insinuates an intolerance on my part for the religious choices of others. This is a falsehood. I suggest that you look further for evidence of "Hate" to support your conclusions. I have no doubt that it would be an easy search. However you will waste your time and energies by looking into my positions.

Also, re-read the comment and notice the time frame I spoke of - the mid-80s. If things are different now, I neither know or really even care. It was true at that time. I witnessed it and spoke with a number of illegals who had "joined" the Mormon/LDS church expressly because it allowed them easy access to the USA and work. Perhaps their acceptance of the Mormon/LDS tenets of faith were sincere. I do not know and will not presume to know what was/is in the soul and conscience of another. I only know what I was told, at that time, by those who I spoke with.

This was my first, and I think will be my only, post on any of the Mormon/LDS threads. I did so only as I had a comment that was, IMO, directly relevant to the thread pattern. I have no ill will to those who chose to follow the Mormon/LDS beliefs.

[ejonesie22]

Hum...

Good and very damaging point...