After the Great Recession (Obama on rationing health care)

New York Times ^ | April 28, 2009 | David Leonhardt

[reaganaut1]

...

I actually think that the tougher issue around medical care — it’s a related one — is what you do around things like end-of-life care —

Yes, where it’s $20,000 for an extra week of life.

THE PRESIDENT: Exactly. And I just recently went through this. I mean, I’ve told this story, maybe not publicly, but when my grandmother got very ill during the campaign, she got cancer; it was determined to be terminal. And about two or three weeks after her diagnosis she fell, broke her hip. It was determined that she might have had a mild stroke, which is what had precipitated the fall.

So now she’s in the hospital, and the doctor says, Look, you’ve got about — maybe you have three months, maybe you have six months, maybe you have nine months to live. Because of the weakness of your heart, if you have an operation on your hip there are certain risks that — you know, your heart can’t take it. On the other hand, if you just sit there with your hip like this, you’re just going to waste away and your quality of life will be terrible.

And she elected to get the hip replacement and was fine for about two weeks after the hip replacement, and then suddenly just — you know, things fell apart.

I don’t know how much that hip replacement cost. I would have paid out of pocket for that hip replacement just because she’s my grandmother. Whether, sort of in the aggregate, society making those decisions to give my grandmother, or everybody else’s aging grandparents or parents, a hip replacement when they’re terminally ill is a sustainable model, is a very difficult question.

[reaganaut1]

This is a part of a wide-ranging interview of Obama by Leonhardt, an economics reporter for the Times.

I do think rationing is necessary in a taxpayer-funded health care program such as Medicare, both because the country cannot afford unlimited health care and because seniors don't have a moral right to unlimited care at someone else's expense. I wish Obama would not raise taxes through the roof and suffocate the economy with regulations so that more people could afford to pay for their own care, including things the government might not deem necessary.

[sickoflibs]

Health care is one hell of a complicated mess created because it’s already considered a right, meaning dependency on employer’s health insurance and government and laws already mandate services keeping it expensive.

[texrepub76]

Just read Daschle’s books. The plan is outlined in there with the exception of including the additional “12 million” illegal aliens that will be recipients once National Health Care is implemented.

[ontap]

Health care is a mess because of government intervention(Medicare) and trial lawyers!

[silverleaf]

the case of zerO’s grandmother grows ever more curious

For a lady who had all those procedures and treatments, she sure spent a lot of time isolated in her apartment and she sure got no visits from him until she was “terminal”

He doesnt know how much her hip replacement cost? Who was minding her affairs?

[pieceofthepuzzle]

“Whether, sort of in the aggregate, society making those decisions to give my grandmother, or everybody else’s aging grandparents or parents, a hip replacement when they’re terminally ill is a sustainable model, is a very difficult question.”

Yes, and these are the kinds of questions encountered all the time as a physician. Precisely because of this complexity, and the fact that each person is an individual and deserves to be treated as such, the government should not be managing health care.

[guns_for_liberty]

I had a friend who was a secretary in a lawyer’s office, and part of her job was to put together the medical expenses his clients had sustained. She said that in two and a half years that she did the job, she never had a single client who knew what their medical expenses were—most had no idea.

Until people start thinking about medical bills the way they think about all other bills, there’s going to be a continuing crisis.

[okie01]

He doesnt know how much her hip replacement cost? Who was minding her affairs?

Medicare, probably -- which would've paid for the bulk of the hip replacement, while a Part B supplementary insurer would've paid for the rest.

Statements from either -- reporting how much was billed and how much was paid -- are essentially impenetrable.

In short, "I don't know how much it cost" is an acceptable answer.

Medicare is a government program, after all...

[YankeeReb]

It is very difficult to imagine the country making those decisions just through the normal political channels. And that’s part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance. It’s not determinative, but I think has to be able to give you some guidance. And that’s part of what I suspect you’ll see emerging out of the various health care conversations that are taking place on the Hill right now.

That's it right there, a rationing board. If Urkel ever gets this thing off the ground it's going to be a nightmare. If you're a congresscritter or a high ranking GS you'll probably be safe because we'll have a two tier system (like any good people's republic) one for the higher ups where no expense is spared and the other for the rest of us. Once your usefulness to the state is done it's no longer cost effective to treat you and you're out of luck. Maybe it won't happen right away, or even in the first decade after implementation but mathematically you can't guarantee EVERYONE in the country (plus illegals) without rationing.

I had personal experience with this when my kids were little and I was out of work. For about 18 months I was on the state medical program. It was awful, 6 month waits for a dental checkup, and then another 18 months for the cleaning. Long waits at the clinic where nobody spoke English, it was like dealing with the DMV. Sorry about the rant but 0bama-care will be the end of this country as we know it.

[silverleaf]

when you settle someone’s estate, or help an elderly person make decision about care- you know- or find out - their medical bills!

if Dunhamn ever lef her apartment for chemo, or an operation, or spent time in physical therapy after hip replacement it sure wasn’t obvious

[Sender]

ObamaCare will have prognoses and treatment decisions made by financial people, with a token doctor. There will be computer programs making go/nogo decisions on surgery and treatments. Maybe they will call the system TurboMed. Oh, your grandmother is 85 years old? Well there is really no use to go through the rest of the questions then.

[combat_boots]

Is there even any record of transport or pharmacy visits & refills or elder care company records? Blood draws & chemo/infusions? Social worker visits? Home nursing companies? Hospital records? Pictures of her in later life? Records of meals or grocery or clothing purchases? Any purchase of any kind? Any record of any friend visitng her or having lunch with her in later life? Phone records? Taxes on property or rent or mortgage holdings?

For a decade or more, there is nothing and no funeral, and only ashes scattered?

This and her reported death on the eve of the election make me wonder about a whole host of things.

[Waco]

So, leave it alone nit wit, you’ve not got socialized medicine yet and yer already yapping about rationing it.

[TigersEye]

Whether, sort of in the aggregate, society making those decisions to give my grandmother, or everybody else’s aging grandparents or parents, a hip replacement when they’re terminally ill is a sustainable model, is a very difficult question.

Unbelievable. But, actually not unbelievable.

I accompanied my mother to her doctor a couple of days ago for a routine check on her meds and such. Before he came in she asked me if she should ask him about nationalized health care. I said "sure, if you want to." She did. He began to tell us how outcomes in Canada and Britain and other countries were better than in the U.S. He specifically cited hip replacements and used the WHO as his statistical reference. He told us that U.S. health care came in after Slovakia. "And that's not good."

He went on to say "sure, we have good care in this town (small Rcky Mtn tourist town) but there aren't enough doctors in Denver or out in the small towns on the plains."

I am sure I have read hard statistics, on hip replacements, comparing Canada, Britain and the U.S., right here on FR, and that the U.S. had significantly better outcomes. I also pointed out to my Mom that those countries might have better statistics since they exclude anyone (as 0bambi is suggesting should be done) who has any significant risk of a poor outcome. I also wondered how nationalized health care would "encourage" doctors to go live out in some small plains town or Denver when obviously they prefer to live in scenic resort towns in the mountains given the choice.

I said nothing to him while I was there. It would have been very pointed and probably foul if I had. But I told Mom he's an idiot and I'm going to encourage her to find a new doc. That was about the fourth visit to him I have been to with her and one persistent theme of his is "I think this would be best from my POV" after sloughing off our concerns.

Pardon the rant but I thought I would put it out there that there are some really stupid 0bot doctors out there. I can't believe he thinks nationalized care would be good for him much less his patients.

[freethinkingman]

yea, just insert “socialist” where he say “democratic” and you begin to get the picture. I also like how he uses “democratic” as a verb.

[silverleaf]

Maybe they should declassify the death certificate as well as the birth certificate