Israel fears Jewish attack on ‘Hitler Youth’ Pope

The Times (UK) ^ | May 10, 2009 | Uzi Mahnaimi

[presidio9]

Hey, I have no problem agreeing that Jesus was a Jew, and Paul was a Jew, and Apostles were all Jews. My point was that Christians forget about past sins of those who repent. Catholic would accept Hitler if it were possible for his sick mind to be truely repentent.

But I can’t resist, since you brought it up. In your opinion, are the Jews For Jesus still Jewish? I ask you that because most Jewish authorities seem to deny that they are.

BTW, if you are going to quote the NT on a discussion of Paul you might want to look at the parts he actually wrote (i.e most of it), and get his own opinion instead of cherry picking quotes off of a webpage with an agenda. In case you were wondering, Pete (a Jew) blames the Jews directly in a speech at the beginning of Acts. The Jews were Jesus’ people. They rejected him and sent him to a humiliating death. Anyone who tells you that Christianity does not teach this is trying to be politically correct. Anyone who lashes out against Jews because if it is failing to grasp the rest of the thought, which is that we Christians, as Jesus’ people who have rejected him through sin are no better than the Jews, and equally guilty. And, BTW, the Nazis beef with the Jews was first about Socialist wealth redistribution away from a prosperous minority that couldn’t stick up for itself. It had absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.

And deliberatly refusing to capitalize the word Church is just plain childish.

[Hacksaw]

Yeah, it's open-minded paragons of freedom like you that give the Church of Rome its reputation of sensibility, reason, and the strength of argument as the determiner of intellectual value and ultimate truth. /s

Always amazed by people who expect Catholics to sit back and soak up the insults. BTW, my church is in Pennsylvania, not Rome.

[Blogger]

Depends on the definition. Religiously, they maintain the tradition and ritual of Judaism but with a different/fuller understanding. So, I do not see them as ceasing to be Jewish. They are Messianic Jews.

[Blogger]

Sorry. Didn’t realize this was for my previous response.

[presidio9]

Yeah, it's open-minded paragons of freedom like you that give the Church of Rome its reputation of sensibility, reason, and the strength of argument as the determiner of intellectual value and ultimate truth. /s

Um, you've had an account here for two months. I've been here for ten years. Ask around: I have the reputation of a free spirit here, and I've probably been suspended more than any other FReeper to prove it. What I don't do is biggoted attacks or lies, which is what has been going on here. I don't tolerate that, and I always call the poster out when I see it.

So, if you're going to make a sarcastic accusation that I might have ever posted something close-minded or (I guess) censorous here, I challege you to find it and call my attention to it. You won't, because I don't play that game. And nobody is the "determiner of intellectual value and ultimate truth." The truth is the truth.

Honestly: Where are all of you nutjobs coming from all of a sudden?

[presidio9]

Depends on the definition. Religiously, they maintain the tradition and ritual of Judaism but with a different/fuller understanding. So, I do not see them as ceasing to be Jewish. They are Messianic Jews.

I will prolong my original mistake and agree with you: You are correct, sir.

But of course I wasn't posting to you.

[Seeing More Clearly Now]

Leave it to the anti-Semitic Brits to find a way to put the Jews in a bad light during the popes visit to Israel They scratched their heads on how to cast Jews in a bad light right now. Solution? Blame Jews for doing something that did not happen! The scenario is a hypothetical thought up in someone’s mind!

[presidio9]

I posted that at somepoint on this thread, before the crazy people on FR took the invitation to start posting lies about the Pope and the Catholic Church.

[safisoft]

And, BTW, the Nazis beef with the Jews was first about Socialist wealth redistribution away from a prosperous minority that couldn’t stick up for itself. It had absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.

Sure it was. Here is a clue... it never has anything to do with "Jesus" - it is simply demonic hate for the chosen of the Almighty... its source is as old as the Garden. See ya.

[presidio9]

Sure it was. Here is a clue... it never has anything to do with "Jesus" - it is simply demonic hate for the chosen of the Almighty... its source is as old as the Garden. See ya.

What I posted was "It had absolutely nothing to do with Jesus." Your response makes absolutely no sense. It seems like you are saying that anything bad that happens to Jews is Satan's way of getting back at Him through his chosen people. I can totally respect that belief (but not agree with it, because I believe in free will), but it has nothing to do with the original point that the motives for the Holocaust (in which millions of Catholics died) had nothing to to with Jesus. It just didn't. If you believed it before, you were ignorant. Now you know the truth. If you repeat that sort of thing, you will be lying.

BTW, very few Jews I know today truly believe that a God of love would be continuing to keep a special eye out for them and them alone at the expense of all others that He created. When I hear people talk about that sort of thing, I am pretty sure that they are not worshiping the same God that I am, just like the Allah that compels people to blow strangers up is not Yahweh.

[Seeing More Clearly Now]

Leave it to the systemically anti-Semitic Brits to find a way to put the Jews in a bad light. This time on the pope’s visit to Israel, they scratch their heads on how to cast Jews in a bad light right now, just in case Israel might be put in good light by hosting the pope. Solution? Blame Jews for doing something that did not happen! The scenario is a hypothetical thought up in someone’s mind! The Times of UK invents news and then editorializes about its invention.

[Seeing More Clearly Now]

The Times kill two birds with one stone in saying that party A might do something to party B: the Times article puts both the Jews and the Pope in a bad light over a hypothetical of what some Holocaust survivor Jew could possibly do if he ever thought to do it.

[Seeing More Clearly Now]

Jewish tradition believes in the coming of the Messiah, but is clear that the Messiah has not yet come. Those who believe the messiah has come are called Christians. One can’t be a Jew and a Christian at the same time.

[presidio9]

I agree that Isreal has welcomed and rejoiced over every Papal visit. My orignial reason for posting this was calling attention to yet another example of the press creating the story it wants to read.

[Blogger]

I disagree. As defined by God, they can be.

[Cronos]

When you say things like "The Messiah was Christ" do you realize how silly that sounds

It isn't silly because I'm talking in English, not in Aramaic or Hebrew or Greek. If I was talking a mish-mash of Hebrew and Greek and said "The mashiach was christos" -- that could be considered silly if you knew both languages. However, in english, Messiah means one think and Christ is taken as the term exclusively of Jesus. E.g. the Dims say Obama is the Messiah, not that Obama is the Christ.

So, while I commend you on your knowledge of Greek and Hebrew, I would say that your point taken the meaning of a word in the original language and applying it to English to be quite wrong. There are other examples of words in English derived from other languages that mean something else completely.

[Cronos]

Again, you do not answer my question : "you deny that the Gentiles of today have any hope of salvation because you say that the Messiah has not yet arrived. Correct? "

Do you think that salvation now is only for those descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Do you believe that right now, only those people can go into heaven and the rest of us are not chosen to go into heaven but are condemned to hell?

[Cronos]

Have the Jewish people had friends among men? First, we have but only for a season.

Ok, so finally you say we are not your friends, no one can be friends of the Jews?

There are hundreds of righteous Catholics that went to tremendous personal loss to protect Jews who were being hunted by Nazis, as well as during Stalin's days. We acknowledge their sacrifice and will praise them unceasingly.

But those righteoous people are still not going into heaven because they're not descended from Abraham, as per what you believe? correct?

[Cronos]

BTW, very few Jews I know today truly believe that a God of love would be continuing to keep a special eye out for them and them alone at the expense of all others that He

My point exactly -- safisoft, you'd be in the minority among Jews. Most do not believe like you may do, that we cannot be saved because we are not descendents of Abraham.