Whaddya mean, 'America is not a Christian nation'?

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | May 16, 2009 | Drew Zahn

[Man50D]

While Barack Obama has repeatedly claimed that the U.S. is "no longer a Christian nation," several members of Congress have taken a stand to boldly disagree.

A bipartisan group of 25 members of the House of Representatives earlier this month submitted H.Res. 397, which calls on Congress to affirm "the rich spiritual and religious history of our nation's founding and subsequent history" and to designate the first week of May as America's Spiritual Heritage Week for "the appreciation of and education on America's history of religious faith."

Rep. Randy Forbes, R-Va., specifically challenged the president's claims that America is not a Christian nation in a news conference announcing the bill immediately following last week's National Day of Prayer observance.

"The overwhelming evidence suggests that this nation was born and birthed with Judeo-Christian principles," Forbes told reporters, "and I would challenge anybody to tell me that point in time when we ceased to be so, because it doesn't exist."

[ROCKLOBSTER]

I would challenge anybody to tell me that point in time when we ceased to be so

Nov 4th 2008.

[Star Traveler]

Forbes told reporters, “and I would challenge anybody to tell me that point in time when we ceased to be so, because it doesn’t exist.”

And you said — Nov 4th 2008.

—

But, I would say that it was from the following Supreme Court decisions and the change that our country made “officially”...

“The Regent’s School Prayer” (Engel v. Vitale, 1962)
“School Prayer” (Murray v. Curlett, 1963)
“School Prayer & Bible Reading” (Abington Township School District v. Schempp, 1963)

and then...

Roe v. Wade in 1973

—

We are *not* a Christian nation and have not been for quite a long time, and it was long, long before Obama ever got here. Obama is the *result* of us not being a Christian nation and *not* the cause of it.

[ChrisInAR]

I believe that the Founding Fathers mentioned their belief in the Lordship of Jesus Christ in the last paragraph of the Constitution, just before they signed the document:

Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth. In Witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names

Does anyone disagree & think I'm nuts for thinking so?

After all, who could they have been referring to when they said "Our Lord"....& from whose birth dats are our years numbered by, pray tell???

[sonofagun]

Ah...the sixties...

What have we wrought?

[Star Traveler]

That was “then” — and this is “now”.

We haven’t been a Christian nation for quite a long time now...

[ROCKLOBSTER]

The whacked out decisions by a liberal Supreme Court do not dictate the demographics of the US.

If only we could see an honest SCOTUS seated which would go back and rip out all the unconstitutional "Constitutional" decisions made by past "enemies domestic."

The Constitution is usually pretty explicit, they don't need to be "interpreting" it, but rather seeking proper and logical application.

[Star Traveler]

While I do believe that the Founding Fathers (in general) believed in the Lordship of Jesus, the Messiah of Israel — at the same time, I do think you’re “nuts for thinking so” (using your phrase) — from this particular example. Even an atheist would use that phrase at that time... LOL...

It was *merely* — a “conventional way of writing” and nothing more (although, in “general” it did develop from recognition of the lordship of Christ, it was *not used* by everyone as a recognition of that lordship).

Pick some better examples...

[ETL]

Barack Obama has repeatedly claimed that the U.S. is "no longer a Christian nation,"

For all you'll ever need or want to know about
Wright's "Black Liberation Theology",
see my FR Home page:
http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/

Hint...

"Their founding document [the Weather Underground's] called for the establishment of a "white fighting force" to be allied with the "Black Liberation Movement" and other "anti-colonial" movements[1] to achieve "the destruction of US imperialism and the achievement of a classless world: world communism."..."-Berger, Dan (2006). Outlaws of America: The Weather Underground and the Politics of Solidarity. AK Press, 95.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_Underground#cite_ref-Berger_0-0

Outlaws of America: The Weather Underground and the Politics of Solidarity (Paperback) by Dan Berger
http://www.amazon.com/Outlaws-America-Underground-Politics-Solidarity/dp/1904859410
_______________________________________________________

From the New York Times, August 24, 2003

"they [the Weather Underground] employed revolutionary jargon, advocated armed struggle and black liberation and began bombing buildings, taking responsibility for at least 20 attacks. Estimates of their number ranged at times from several dozen to several hundred."

Article: Quieter Lives for 60's Militants, but Intensity of Beliefs Hasn't Faded
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F04E4DE1539F937A1575BC0A9659C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

[Star Traveler]

The bottom line *result* in society — is — prayer and Bible reading taken out of school. Unborn babies killed by the millions since then.

That’s ample proof of the nature of our society. That’s all the proof you need.

If people didn’t agree with those decisions, it simply wouldn’t happen.

Hence, the United States is *not a Christian nation* — but merely a nation with “Christians in it”...

[Venturer]

Obama goes today to Notre dame to prove Notre dame is no longer a Christian school.

[Star Traveler]

The bottom line thing to recognize, very simply — is that if the U.S. were a Christian nation — Obama would not have been elected.

Obama (i.e., that he’s “here” and has been elected) is ample proof of the situation which changed “officially” (as I documented in post #3, with those “decisions” and the results from them).

Obama is simply the “outcome” of what happened back then and the “outcome” of the U.S. not being a Christian nation.

[Star Traveler]

Well, the visit of Obama may confirm that, but that also happened long before Obama, too... :-)

[ROCKLOBSTER]

Prayer and the bible cannot be either forced nor prohibited by the schools. I don't care what the USSC says.

A current poll has Americans self-identitying as 51% pro-life.

If people didn’t agree with those decisions, it simply wouldn’t happen.

The tyranny of the minority. Voters don't think deeply and equate the consequences of their choices. It's usually a popularity contest rather than a true battle of ideology...not to mention voter fraud.

I think Americans looked pretty Christian right after the 9/11 attack. It will happen again.

[WesternCulture]

Although I’m Swedish, I love America.

However, I don’t love the US because everything in America is better than in my my country. Actually, Sweden outperforms America in many other fields than ice hockey, car saftey, IT, cheap furniture and gorgeous blonds.

Because of our undeniable competence in the area of business, technology and our Lutheran work ethics, Sweden today has a much stronger economy than the US and (from what I can tell) the average Swedish family enjoys a better standard of living than its American counterpart.

Call us Socialits if you like, at least we’re not the nation that recently has elected a Socialist government, neither do we tax our companies to death (- btw, one reason I love this forum is that most members here can see through the tranquillizing fairytales of Obama, so don’t take it too personally!).

Islam is a problem in Sweden. I won’t deny this. However, Sweden is actually more of a Christian nation than the US is!

ONLY 78.4% of all Americans consider themselves to be Christians.

http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/affiliations-all-traditions.pdf

In Sweden around 75% of the population belongs to the biggest Lutheran church on Earth, Church of Sweden. The rest of the population are Catholics, belong to different “free churches” and a small percentage of our population Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and Jews.

Many Christians of America view us Swedes as Socialist zombies and robots. Yes, few of us go to church every week and sing “hallelujah”. Our church attendence is a catastophe. But does that mean Jesus Christs would deem Sweden of today Hell on Earth? I think not.

When I was a child I once asked my (Lutheran) grandmother the question “Where does one find God?”. Her answer was this: “God is found in the heart of every good person”.

[theBuckwheat]

State Constitution Preambles:

Alabama 1901, Preamble
We the people of the State of Alabama , invoking the favor and guidance of
Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution..

Alaska 1956, Preamble We, the people of Alaska , grateful to God and to
those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land.

Arizona 1911, Preamble We, the people of the State of Arizona , grateful to
Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution....

Arkansas 1874, Preamble We, the people of the State of Arkansas , grateful
to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government...

California 1879, Preamble We, the People of the State of California ,
grateful to Almighty God for our freedom...

Colorado 1876, Preamble We, the people of Colorado , with profound reverence
for the Supreme Ruler of Universe...

Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with
gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy.

Delaware 1897, Preamble Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the
rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of
their consciences...

Florida 1885, Preamble We, the people of the State of Florida , grateful to
Almighty God for our constitutional liberty, establish this Constitution....

Georgia 1777, Preamble We, the people of Georgia , relying upon protection
and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution...

Hawaii 1959, Preamble We , the people of Hawaii , Grateful for Divine
Guidance ... Establish this Constitution.

Idaho 1889, Preamble We, the people of the State of Idaho , grateful to
Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings.

Illinois 1870, Preamble We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to
Almighty God for the civil , political and religious liberty which He hath
so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our
endeavors.

Indiana 1851, Preamble We, the People of the State of Indiana , grateful to
Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to choose our form of
government.

Iowa 1857, Preamble We, the People of the St ate of Iowa , grateful to the
Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence
on Him for a continuation of these blessings, establish this Constitution.

Kansas 1859, Preamble We, the people of Kansas , grateful to Almighty God
for our civil and religious privileges establish this Constitution.

Kentucky 1891, Preamble.. We, the people of the Commonwealth are grateful to
Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties..

Louisiana 1921, Preamble We, the people of the State of Louisiana , grateful
to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy.

Maine 1820, Preamble We the People of Maine acknowledging with grateful
hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us
an opportunity .. And imploring His aid and direction.

Maryland 1776, Preamble We, the people of the state of Maryland , grateful
to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty...

Massachusetts 1780, Preamble We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging
with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe
In the course of His Providence, an opportunity and devoutly imploring His
direction

Michigan 1908, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Michigan ,
grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom, establish this
Constitution.

Minnesota, 1857, Preamble We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful
to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its
blessings:

Mississippi 1890, Preamble We, the people of Mississippi in convention
assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work.

Missouri 1845, Preamble We, the people of Missouri , with profound reverence
for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness .
Establish this Constitution...

Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana , grateful to Almighty God
for the blessings of liberty establish this Constitution ..

Nebraska 1875, Preamble We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our
freedom . Establish this Constitution.

Nevada 1864, Preamble We the people of the State of Nevada , grateful to
Almighty God for our freedom, establish this Constitution...

New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V Every individual has a natural
and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own
conscience.

New Jersey 1844, Preamble We, the people of the State of New Jersey,
grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so
long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.

New Mexico 1911, Preamble We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty
God for the blessings of liberty..

New York 1846, Preamble We, the people of the State of New York , grateful
to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings.

North Carolina 1868, Preamble We the people of the State of North Carolina,
grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil,
political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon
Him for the continuance of those...

North Dakota 1889, Preamble We , the people of North Dakota , grateful to
Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain...
Ohio 1852, Preamble We the people of the state of Ohio , grateful to
Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our
common.

Oklahoma 1907, Preamble Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to
secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty, establish this

Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I Section 2. All men shall be secure in
the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of
their consciences

Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to
Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly
invoking His guidance....

Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island
grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath
so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing....

South Carolina , 1778, Preamble We, the people of he State of South Carolina
grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

South Dakota 1889, Preamble We, the people of South Dakota , grateful to
Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties ...

Tennessee 1796, Art. XI..III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible
right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience...

Texas 1845, Preamble We the People of the Republic of Texas , acknowledging,
with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.
Utah 1896, Preamble Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we
establish this Constitution.

Vermont 1777, Preamble Whereas all government ought to enable the
individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other
blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ..

Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI Religion, or the Duty which we owe our
Creator can be directed only by Reason and that it is the mutual duty of all
to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other

Washington 1889, Preamble We the People of the State of Washington, grateful
to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this
Constitution

West Virginia 1872, Preamble Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the
blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West
Virginia reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God ....

Wisconsin 1848, Preamble We, the people of Wisconsin , grateful to Almighty
God for our freedom, domestic tranquility...

Wyoming 1890, Preamble We, the people of the State of Wyoming , grateful to
God for our civil, political, and religious liberties, establish this
Constitution....

[Iron Munro]

Open Letter To Barack Obama From Ms. Kathleen Lyday,
4th Grade Teacher at Grandview Elementary School, Hillsboro, MO

The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington , DC 20500

Mr. Obama:
I have had it with you and your administration, sir. Your conduct on your recent trip overseas has convinced me that you are not an adequate representative of the United States of America collectively or of me personally.

You are so obsessed with appeasing the Europeans and the Muslim world that you have abdicated the responsibilities of the President of the United States of America. You are responsible to the citizens of the United States. You are not responsible to the peoples of any other country on earth.

I personally resent that you go around the world apologizing for the United States telling Europeans that we are arrogant and do not care about their status in the world. Sir, what do you think the First World War and the Second World War were all about if not the consideration of the peoples of Europe? Are you brain dead? What do you think the Marshall Plan was all about? Do you not understand or know the history of the 20th century?

Where do you get off telling a Muslim country that the United States does not consider itself a Christian country? Have you not read the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution of the United States? This country was founded on Judeo-Christian ethics and the principles governing this country, at least until you came along, come directly from this heritage. Do you not understand this?

Your bowing to the king of Saudi Arabia is an affront to all Americans. Our President does not bow down to anyone, let alone the king of Saudi Arabia. You didn't show Great Britain, our best and one of our oldest allies, the respect they deserve yet you bow down to the king of Saudi Arabia. How dare you, sir! How dare you!

You can't find the time to visit the graves of our greatest generation because you don't want to offend the Germans but make time to visit a mosque in Turkey. You offended our dead and every veteran when you give the Germans more respect than the people who saved the German people from themselves. What's the matter with you? I am convinced that you and the members of your administration have the historical and intellectual depth of a mud puddle and should be ashamed of yourselves, all of you.

You are so self-righteously offended by the big bankers and the American automobile manufacturers yet do nothing about the real thieves in this situation, Mr. Dodd, Mr. Frank, Franklin Raines, Jamie Gorelic,the Fannie Mae bonuses, and the Freddie Mac bonuses. What do you intend to do about them? Anything? I seriously doubt it.

What about the U.S. House members passing out $9.1 million in bonuses to their staff members on top of the $2.5 million in automatic pay raises that lawmakers gave themselves? I understand the average House aide got a 17% bonus. I took a 5% cut in my pay to save jobs with my employer. You haven't said anything about that. Who authorized that? I surely didn't!

Executives at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac will be receiving $210 million in bonuses over an eighteen-month period, that's $45 million more than the AIG bonuses.. In fact, Fannie and Freddie executives have already been awarded $51 million a not a bad take. Who authorized that and why haven't you expressed your outrage at this group who are largely responsible for the economic mess we have right now.

I resent that you take me and my fellow citizens as brain-dead and not caring about what you idiots do. We are watching what you are doing and we are getting increasingly fed up with all of you. I also want you to know that I personally find just about everything you do and say to be offensive to every one of my sensibilities. I promise you that I will work tirelessly to see that you do not get a chance to spend two terms destroying my beautiful country.

Sincerely,
Every real American

P..S. I rarely ask that emails be 'passed around'.............PLEASE SEND THIS TO YOUR EMAIL LIST......it's past time for all Americans to wake up!

Ms Kathleen Lyday
Fourth Grade Teacher
Grandview Elementary School
11470 Hwy. C
Hillsboro, MO 63050

[Star Traveler]

You said — Prayer and the bible cannot be either forced nor prohibited by the schools. I don’t care what the USSC says.

—

Well, sorry to tell you this, but it happened. You may not have seen it happen, but I did. I didn’t know why at the time, but I found out later on, as I grew up. At the time, we had assignments in the Bible, memorization of certain things, reciting it in class, prayer in the classroom, and so on. It abruptly stopped. And it hasn’t started up again since then.

As I said before, the U.S. is *not* a Christian nation, but it does have “Christians in the nation”. There is a difference in those two things.

“As a nation” the U.S. has already made it’s pronouncements and rulings and subsequent laws and regulations from those rulings. And, there are “Christians in the nation” but that doesn’t “make the nation Christian”.

===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====

You then said — A current poll has Americans self-identitying as 51% pro-life.

—

Well, I’ve been around long enough, and as a Christian, to know that “pro-life” is not a condition for salvation (per the Gospel and the Scriptures, as the Apostle Paul tells us), but that being a true Christian does lead to being pro-life.

So, very simply that means that there are many who are pro-life who are not Christian.

I can name three groups who have worked for “conservative values” in politics and who are *not Christian* in any way, shape or form (by the definition of Christians and their fundamental theology, as to what are core Christian teachings).

Those three groups, who have and who do work for conservative values are Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Moonies.

Two of those groups are the *largest two* — cult groups — in the United States — Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. The third one, the Moonies, have sunk hundreds of millions of dollars into “conservative politics” over the years, usually working very quietly “behind the scenes” sinking their money into these same conservative politics. I’ve seen that directly myself.

When you get right down to it. you probably have about 10-20% of the population of the United States as “Christian”. That doesn’t make out too well for being a “Christian nation” — and that’s precisely why the U.S. “officially” went against being a Christian nation, when I said it did.

And Obama’s election can be looked at as the “judgment of God” upon this nation for turning away from being a Christian nation (which it appeared to have been, at one time; but it is no longer so...).

===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====

And lastly you said — I think Americans looked pretty Christian right after the 9/11 attack. It will happen again.

—

No, they looked like scared rabbits. You know..., “No atheists in foxholes” [until you get out of the foxhole... that is... LOL...]

If they were “Christian” they would still be in church and Obama couldn’t have won. It would have been “overwhelming” against Obama, in that case.

You had nothing but “deer in the headlights” at that time... LOL...

You’re living in a dream-world, in your own mind, if you think that the United States is a Christian nation. Even a quote attributed (many times) to Billy Graham makes the case quite well (said a long while back).... (paraphrased somewhat) — that “God would owe Sodom and Gomorrah an apology if He didn’t judge the United States”....

You don’t “judge” a nation that *is* a “Christian Nation”....

Too many people have their heads in the sand, or are caught in a time-warp, back in the 18th Century.... :-)

[AD from SpringBay]

We are an untended vineyard - still growing some grapes, rapidly being overtaken by the wild.

[Bryan24]

Where did the fundamental moral principles that our founders used originate? The answer is ‘The Bible’.

Jefferson spent over half of the Declaration of Independance making arguments to bible believers that we had the RIGHT to throw off the rightful government.

Religious freedom was guaranteed in the First Amendement, not to keep us FROM religion, but to keep religion flourishing.