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The Medicare Ponzi Scheme
Townhall ^ | 5/20/2009 | John Stossel

Posted on 05/20/2009 9:48:23 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

Isn't it high time America did less for the elderly? A politically incorrect question for sure. But Medicare has an astounding $34-trillion unfunded liability. And because of rising unemployment, its hospital-stay program will go broke two years earlier than previously predicted.

For my recent ABC special "You Can't Even Talk About It", I spoke with residents of La Posada, a development in Florida that made Forbes's list of top 10 "ritzy" retirement communities. These folks are well off. And they get a bonus: You pay for most of their health care under Medicare.

The retirees love it. Everyone likes getting free stuff. And Medicare often makes going to the doctor just about free.

Why is this a good thing?

"What about those young people [who pick up the tab]? What kind of legacy are we leaving for them?" asks Harvard Business School Professor Regina Herzlinger. "We're really stealing from them."

Some high-school students are alarmed about the scam. "20/20" interviewed a group that is willing to help needy seniors -- they volunteer at a food bank -- but they are angry that Medicare forces them to pay for even wealthy seniors.

"This program, Medicare, is essentially ripping my generation off," Zach Hadaway said.

Policy experts say the kids are right.

"The government spends around $6 on seniors for every dollar it spends on children, and yet the poverty rate among children is far higher," said Andrew Biggs of the American Enterprise Institute (www.aei.org).

The federal government stiffs the young in favor of the old.

So I told the La Posada seniors that the kids called them "greedy geezers." They said, "We've paid our dues." Money was taken from every paycheck they earned.

But, in fact, the average Medicare beneficiary today collects two to three times more money than he paid in.

"I would argue that this is not only unfair, it's downright immoral," says billionaire Pete Peterson.

Peterson is a rarity: a senior who decided he cannot in good conscience accept Medicare. He and his foundation (www.pgpf.org) worry about the looming fiscal disaster. When Medicare began in 1965, six working-aged people paid for each Medicare recipient. Now the figure is four. It will get worse as baby boomers like me retire.

Medicare is unsustainable.

"There is $34 trillion sitting off the balance sheet, waiting for future generations to pay," Herzlinger said.

That's how much more Medicare money government has promised than it has budgeted. It's the price of about 30 Iraq Wars.

We locked up Bernie Madoff for running a Ponzi scheme. Medicare is a bigger one. Seniors think the money deducted from their paychecks was stored in a trust fund. But, in fact, it was spent immediately. The "trust fund" is an accounting gimmick.

The giant seniors' lobbying group, AARP (www.aarp.org), rarely talks about Medicare's coming bankruptcy, and it rejects reforms like means-testing or raising the eligibility age, claiming most problems can be solved simply by lowering health-care costs.

"Do things like make better use of health information technology," David Certner, AARP's director of legislative policy, told me.

The Congressional Budget Office says such reforms won't save much money.

"Well, they're going to have to," Certner said.

That sounds like wishful thinking -- not unusual among powerful lobbies that ignore basic economics. When something is free for one group, demand runs wild, pushing up prices for those who must pay for themselves and the subsidized group.

On top of that, the demographic problem Peterson emphasizes won't go away, no matter how cleverly the "fix health care" argument tries to bury it. Fewer workers per retiree means shrinking Medicare tax revenues -- period -- even if health-care costs are flat.

"Ultimately, somebody's going to have to give up some medical treatment they'd been getting," Peterson says.

Our group of seniors had second thoughts after we spoke. "I hear what the kids are saying," a man said, "When they get to be our age, there may not be any Medicare."

"Tell them to change the law," one said. "If the kids can get the votes, then they can get it done."

Fat chance. The elderly vote on Medicare.

Most young people don't even know they're getting ripped off.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: genx; medicare; ponzi

1 posted on 05/20/2009 9:48:24 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Just like the SS ponzi scheme.


2 posted on 05/20/2009 9:48:57 AM PDT by pissant (THE Conservative party: www.falconparty.com)
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To: SeekAndFind

So the Feds steal money from my paycheck and my employer’s pocket. Then, I retire and medical insurance is priced out of sight, so it’s my fault for signing up - and paying, again - for Medicare.

Why don’t we just keep stealing the money and “Soylent Green” everyone over the retirement age? We can start in Congress.


3 posted on 05/20/2009 9:53:28 AM PDT by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners.)
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To: NTHockey

Lyndon Johnson created the mess!


4 posted on 05/20/2009 9:56:43 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: qam1; ItsOurTimeNow; PresbyRev; Fraulein; StoneColdGOP; Clemenza; m18436572; InShanghai; xrp; ...
Xer Ping

Ping list for the discussion of the politics and social (and sometimes nostalgic) aspects that directly effects Generation Reagan / Generation-X (Those born from 1965-1981) including all the spending previous generations are doing that Gen-X and Y will end up paying for.

Freep mail me to be added or dropped. See my home page for details and previous articles.

5 posted on 05/20/2009 9:57:50 AM PDT by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: SeekAndFind
"We're really stealing from them."

THE HAND THAT ROBS THE CRADLE

Great title for a book about it. Percentage greatfully recieved.
6 posted on 05/20/2009 10:00:35 AM PDT by chuck_the_tv_out (click my name)
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To: SeekAndFind

—another one of the ticking time bombs—louder and louder—


7 posted on 05/20/2009 10:00:38 AM PDT by rellimpank (--don't believe anything the MSM tells you about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
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To: rellimpank

Reitrees that have more money than they know what to do with should NOT be on Medicare. If you can retire to a fancy area and live on the golf course, travel around the world, etc., then pay for your own insurance.If, like my own mother, you are a widow or widower and live on social security ONLY, then one indeed has a right to file for Medicare. JMHO


8 posted on 05/20/2009 10:07:53 AM PDT by maeng ( b)
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To: SeekAndFind

HAHAHAHA....got to send this to some geezers I know who voted for Obambi.....HAHAHAHAHA


9 posted on 05/20/2009 10:09:10 AM PDT by goodnesswins (WE have a REPUBLIC.....IF we can KEEP IT!!!)
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To: maeng

-—Karl Marx would put it exactly that way, too—


10 posted on 05/20/2009 10:12:07 AM PDT by rellimpank (--don't believe anything the MSM tells you about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
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To: SeekAndFind

I don’t have any sympathy...it was the dumbles who required everyone to participate in this boondoggle.

Now you get commentary like that Harvard person acting all surprised that it is working as intended.

You idjits wouldn’t let people opt in or opt out. Oh no...can’t have that...the system wouldn’t work if there was a choice, we were told.
Now you want to moan about the cost.

[spit]


11 posted on 05/20/2009 10:16:15 AM PDT by Adder (Proudly ignoring Zero's political stylings since 1-20-09!)
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To: maeng

Exactly. People who can afford to pay for their own insurance should be able to do so.


12 posted on 05/20/2009 10:36:24 AM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: maeng
If you can retire to a fancy area and live on the golf course, travel around the world, etc., then pay for your own insurance.If, like my own mother, you are a widow or widower and live on social security ONLY, then one indeed has a right to file for Medicare.

So, you're saying that state health care - which taxpayers have been forced to pay into for decades of their working lives - should be needs-tested. Thus, someone who had paid into the fund for decades might get NOTHING, if he was relatively affluent (read: had scrimped and saved a large chunk of his disposable income), while someone else who had paid little or nothing into the system, but HAD frittered away their money, and was thus now penniless, WOULD be eligible for benefits, merely because they are now poor.

That does not jibe with my view of self-reliance and economic freedom.

Regards,

13 posted on 05/20/2009 10:51:23 AM PDT by alexander_busek
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To: SeekAndFind

I caught this on Stossel’s 20/20 episode a few weeks back. (Glad I finally got to see a Stossel report. They don’t write up usually if he’ll be featured.)

I’m so sick of the entire communist Ponzi scheme of EVERYthing.


14 posted on 05/20/2009 4:18:24 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: alexander_busek

To be fair, I think the main point was simply that if you had to choose, it’s absurd that well-off people get the benefits of something that’s supposed to be for supporting those in need in their twilight years.

Your (correct) point of view assumes they’re simply getting back what they’re owed from paying in (just like SS, which is logical). But as this story relays, the problem is they’re not simply paying back what is owed. It’s a Ponzi scheme because in reality there was no “savings account” to simply give back to those who paid in; it’s merely paid out randomly (if you will) from current monies from current payers.


15 posted on 05/20/2009 4:25:15 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: maeng
Reitrees that have more money than they know what to do with should NOT be on Medicare. If you can retire to a fancy area and live on the golf course, travel around the world, etc., then pay for your own insurance.If, like my own mother, you are a widow or widower and live on social security ONLY, then one indeed has a right to file for Medicare. JMHO

The problem with means testing isn't at the ends of the spectrum, but in the middle. The very rich don't get hurt too much. And the very poor are better off.

But somewhere in the middle is the guy who now has to pay for both the poor guys medicare and save for his own medical insurance. This guy gets hit hard.

When you do means testing this way, you get absurdly high marginal tax rates at the places where the means testing starts falling off. Make a dollar more, and you get 50 cents less in medicare coverage and you now have a 50% addition to your base tax rate. What will happen is that the guy in the middle will be wise to blow his remaining money on good times, and fall back into SS & medicare once he's poor enough. What a great way to split us into rich and poor classes!

This article fails to note that the only reason most people can take out more than they put into Medicare (or SS) is that those at the top end of the scale put in ever so much more than they take out, not to mention the folks who don't live long enough to take anything out.

It's a simple actuarial fact that most people who take money out of any insurance plan, get to take out more than they take in. Between compound interest and folks not making it to the payout date, the survivors win. With the sliding rate on SS/Medicare, its the poor that win. The rich lose unless they live a very long and un-healthy life.

Yet somehow, with the rich already getting the short end of the stick, you think it's fair to further shaft them.

16 posted on 05/20/2009 4:37:42 PM PDT by slowhandluke (It's hard work to be cynical enough in this age)
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To: the OlLine Rebel
To be fair, I think the main point was simply that if you had to choose, it’s absurd that well-off people get the benefits of something that’s supposed to be for supporting those in need in their twilight years.

Thank you for your reasonable reply.

However, I would say that it is equally absurd that anyone should be forced to pay into a system, and then be disbarred from enjoying its benefits, merely because they have been thrifty throughout their lives.

Only charity should be means-tested.

Regards,

17 posted on 05/21/2009 4:18:41 AM PDT by alexander_busek
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To: alexander_busek

The whole system does not jibe with self-reliance and economic freedom. I had much rather put the money I pay into SS into private accounts that actually draw interest and have a real retirement account. However, the ones in power will never let that happen. So with your idea, we will continue to put everyone that turns 65 on Medicare and go broke where NO ONE will have Medicare within a few years. Then what??


18 posted on 05/21/2009 5:49:54 AM PDT by maeng ( b)
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To: maeng
...where NO ONE will have Medicare within a few years. Then what??


19 posted on 05/21/2009 5:51:44 AM PDT by WVKayaker ( God said, 'Cancel Program GENESIS.' The universe ceased to exist.- Arth. C. Clarke's shortest story)
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To: WVKayaker

Is that supposed to be an answer to a serious problem? Should we just kill off everyone when they turn 60 or 50 or even 40?


20 posted on 05/21/2009 6:05:49 AM PDT by maeng ( b)
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To: maeng
Is that supposed to be an answer to a serious problem? Should we just kill off everyone when they turn 60 or 50 or even 40?

I don't think the choice is in our hands, There are powers higher than us all! Some even believe in God and that He is still in control... I do!

Anybody that relies on government will get what he deserves!

21 posted on 05/21/2009 6:11:00 AM PDT by WVKayaker ( God said, 'Cancel Program GENESIS.' The universe ceased to exist.- Arth. C. Clarke's shortest story)
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To: WVKayaker

Of course God is always in control but we live on this earth and are supposed to make the best choices we can with what we have. We are discussing a man-made (government made) problem and the best way to deal with it.


22 posted on 05/21/2009 6:23:44 AM PDT by maeng ( b)
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To: SeekAndFind
The federal government stiffs the young in favor of the old.

That's because old people are reliable voters.

23 posted on 05/21/2009 6:31:49 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: alexander_busek

I’d be happy to eliminate all this welfare nonsense. Get rid of all the FDR programs and everything that followed.

My answer didn’t mean I approve of any of this principle.


24 posted on 05/21/2009 6:36:11 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: SeekAndFind

One of the problems in the country is that no one will actually be able to push through a bloated, bureaucratic Congress what really needs to be done. There is a great tendancy to try and dress the corpse better, use stronger perfume, and more make-up.

The corpse is dead...no matter what its wearing.

Scrap the whole system....of course that won’t work will it? Once the gov’t has its hand in your paycheck, it’s not about to walk away.

Rather than the gov’t paying for healthcare, why not turn it into a subsidy for those in need to be used to buy their own healthcare?


25 posted on 05/21/2009 6:43:00 AM PDT by delphirogatio (I am the indication, not the confirmation; I'm the inclination, the determination)
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To: maeng
We are discussing a man-made (government made) problem and the best way to deal with it.

These "social programs" should not exist. Period! Medicare is socialist. Social Security is socialist. Energy Departments and EPA's should never have been created. But, they will end soon!

The cookie jar is getting empty and there's not much flour or butter left to make more...


26 posted on 05/21/2009 6:44:51 AM PDT by WVKayaker ( God said, 'Cancel Program GENESIS.' The universe ceased to exist.- Arth. C. Clarke's shortest story)
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To: WVKayaker

I understand what you are stating. But Jesus, while on earth, showed compassion and understanding for the poor and sick. He healed the rich and poor alike. Therefore, I believe (and only my opinion) that we have to try to change our world while still making the best of what we have or what the government throws at us.That does not mean we can’t try to institute reform and do away with useless programs. But let us also use what is there in a wise way.


27 posted on 05/21/2009 6:57:47 AM PDT by maeng ( b)
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To: maeng
... But let us also use what is there in a wise way.

I am involved in local, state,and Federal politics. I also pray daily. Some days require lots of them.

I also like to watch Nascar races, and (as my screen name says) I like to paddle. I walk on the ridges of VA and WV several times a week with Spot, my dog.

It is easy to focus on this crap. It is more difficult to change it. Politics is fine, but prayer invokes more power! In the meantime, support good leaders (like Sarah Palin), or become one. Your mileage may vary.

This letter was sent to Timothy, but applies to all Christians!

Timothy 4

1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

6If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed. 7Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. 8For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

9This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance 10(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

11Command and teach these things. 12Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity. 13Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching. 14Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you.

15Be diligent in these matters; give yourself wholly to them, so that everyone may see your progress. 16Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers. =NIV

28 posted on 05/21/2009 7:21:43 AM PDT by WVKayaker ( God said, 'Cancel Program GENESIS.' The universe ceased to exist.- Arth. C. Clarke's shortest story)
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To: WVKayaker

I so agree! It is very easy to get caught up in the day to day hassle that Washington throws our way. I will never be the leader but I can sure push, pull and support those who can. I too find myself relying much more on prayer these days, since the election. But I believe we must live of this world and make the best of our time here and sometimes that includes the dirty job of politics.


29 posted on 05/21/2009 7:48:34 AM PDT by maeng ( b)
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To: SeekAndFind

Report Fraud to the Office of the Inspector General

Email HHSTips@oig.hhs.gov

Call 1-800-HHS-TIPS (1-800-447-8477).

http://www.hhs.gov/stopmedicarefraud/


30 posted on 05/21/2009 8:16:48 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo
Report Fraud to the Office of the Inspector General


31 posted on 05/21/2009 9:27:45 AM PDT by WVKayaker ( God said, 'Cancel Program GENESIS.' The universe ceased to exist.- Arth. C. Clarke's shortest story)
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To: SeekAndFind

Why is it that Obama endlessly talks about rising costs of healthcare but never talks about doctors having to insure against lawyers?

Hmmmm,maybe we should discuss this.


32 posted on 05/23/2009 12:57:09 PM PDT by ully2 (ully)
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To: SeekAndFind
"The Medicare Ponzi Scheme"

Socialism itself IS a PONZI scheme.

33 posted on 05/24/2009 7:17:34 PM PDT by evad (Obama's Socialism is a giant PONZI scheme)
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