Skip to comments.Obama Is Said to Consider Preventive Detention Plan (Flush the Constitution!)
Posted on 05/21/2009 8:05:48 AM PDT by markomalley
WASHINGTON President Obama told human rights advocates at the White House on Wednesday that he was mulling the need for a preventive detention system that would establish a legal basis for the United States to incarcerate terrorism suspects who are deemed a threat to national security but cannot be tried, two participants in the private session said.
The discussion, in a 90-minute meeting in the Cabinet Room that included Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. and other top administration officials, came on the eve of a much-anticipated speech Mr. Obama is to give Thursday on a number of thorny national security matters, including his promise to close the detention center at the naval base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.
Human rights advocates are growing deeply uneasy with Mr. Obamas stance on these issues, especially his recent move to block the release of photographs showing abuse of detainees, and his announcement that he is willing to try terrorism suspects in military commissions a concept he criticized bitterly as a presidential candidate.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Verordnung des Reichspräsidenten zum Schutz von Volk und Staat. Vom 28. Februar 1933
Auf Grund des Artikels 48 Abs. 2 der Reichsverfassung wird zur Abwehr kommunistischer staatsgefährdender Gewaltakte folgendes verordnet:
Die Artikel 114, 115, 117, 118, 123, 124 und 153 der Verfassung des Deutschen Reichs werden bis auf weiteres außer Kraft gesetzt. Es sind daher Beschränkungen der persönlichen Freiheit, des Rechts der freien Meinungsäußerung, einschließlich der Pressefreiheit, des Vereins- und Versammlungsrechts, Eingriffe in das Brief-, Post-, Telegraphen- und Fernsprechgeheimnis, Anordnungen von Haussuchungen und von Beschlagnahmen sowie Beschränkungen des Eigentums auch außerhalb der sonst hierfür bestimmten gesetzlichen Grenzen zulässig.
Werden in einem Lande die zur Wiederherstellung der öffentlichen Sicherheit und Ordnung nötigen Maßnahmen nicht getroffen, so kann die Reichsregierung insoweit die Befugnisse der obersten Landesbehörde vorübergehend wahrnehmen.
Die Behörden der Länder und Gemeinden (Gemeindeverbände) haben den auf Grund des § 2 erlassenen Anordnungen der Reichsregierung im Rahmen ihrer Zuständigkeit Folge zu leisten.
Wer den von den obersten Landesbehörden oder den ihnen nachgeordneten Behörden zur Durchführung dieser Verordnung erlassenen Anordnungen oder den von der Reichsregierung gemäß § 2 erlassenen Anordnungen zuwiderhandelt oder wer zu solcher Zuwiderhandlung auffordert oder anreizt, wird, soweit nicht die Tat nach anderen Vorschriften mit einer schwereren Strafe bedroht ist, mit Gefängnis nicht unter einem Monat oder mit Geldstrafe von 150 bis zu 15000 Reichsmark bestraft.
Wer durch Zuwiderhandlung nach Abs. 1 eine gemeine Gefahr für Menschenleben herbeiführt, wird mit Zuchthaus, bei mildernden Umständen mit Gefängnis nicht unter sechs Monaten und, wenn die Zuwiderhandlung den Tod eines Menschen verursacht, mit dem Tode, bei mildernden Umständen mit Zuchthaus nicht unter zwei Jahren bestraft. Daneben kann auf Vermögenseinziehung erkannt werden.
Wer zu einer gemeingefährlichen Zuwiderhandlung (Abs. 2) auffordert oder anreizt, wird mit Zuchthaus, bei mildernden Umständen mit Gefängnis nicht unter drei Monaten bestraft.
The key paragraphs are 1 and 4(2). Sounds exactly what Ø is proposing here!
If Bush had proposed the same thing, would we be calling him a Nazi? For some of the terrorists at Gitmo, this may be necessary.
Golly, I guess there is something to those ‘FEMA Camps’.
Obama’s 4 years cannot pass fast enough.
I can’t believe he’s standing in FRONT of the Constitution READING this stuff. Geez, why doesn’t he just send an email ... he will read anything the teleprompter tells him. Such a fake ... and with the Constitution right behind him. He should turn around and read it!
Uhhh... dude, that’s in German.
Starting with Bill Ayers?
These “human rights” people would be OK with obama doing this to US citizens ... just not terrorist suspects
Obama is a Nazi piece of dogsh*t for even considering this. He's not doing it to go after muslim terrorists; he's doing this to go after all of the Right.
Sounds remarkably like Gitmo, except for who might qualify for admittance...
Well, I didn't say it above a whisper (around here), but I was not in favor of establishment of either DHS or the DNI.
The rationale I used was that certain powers are required during wartime, but structural changes are dangerous because of administrations that would come in later and abuse it (I was thinking about Hitlery at the time...Bambi was not even imaginable in my worst nightmare)
Also, IIRC, Bush did what he did with Gitmo exactly because he knew that constitutionally he couldn't do so within CONUS.
But, since Congress and the Press are total Ø lapdogs, this won't ever meet more than Page A-18 coverage.
Exactly—HolyO channeling Dubya ping!
(Although HolyO’s reasons may be more sinister than liberals ever thought President Bush’s were!)
What about for anti-abortion activists and gun “enthusiasts”?
Paragraph 1 translated-
The articles 114, 115, 117, 118, 123, 124 and 153 of the condition of the German Reich are repealed set until further notice. There is from there restrictions of the personal freedom, the right of the free expression of opinion, including freedom of the press, the association and meeting right, interferences in the letter, post office, telegraph and telephone secret, arrangements of house searches and of seizures as well as restrictions of the property also outside of the legal borders otherwise for this determined permissible.
Paragraph 4 translated-
Who contravenes the arrangements issued from the highest Land authorities or to them the subordinate authorities to the execution of this regulation or from the realm government in accordance with § 2 issued arrangements or who requests or stimulates to such offence, as far as the act according to other regulations is not threatened with a heavier punishment, with prison under one month or with fine from 150 to 15000 realm Marks one does not punish.
I don’t see a large problem with this as long as it applies to non-citizens. All full Constitutional rights MUST apply to citizens, without exception, but I think exactly which apply to non-citizens can be a matter of statute.
I forgot the part of the Geneva Conventions where it affords protection to terrorists.
Except those in Gitmo where caught on the battlefield, thus it is punitive, Bambi is calling for preemptive.
Terrorist suspects = democrat party
terrorism suspects = white Christians
Human rights activists for abortion....now there’s an oxy moron.
The President has already been shredding the Constitution.
Why stop now?
Yes, that is a huge possibility with these power hungry monsters in the White House!
My worst nightmare is that HolyO starts having conservative talk show hosts rounded up for ‘treason’ for blatantly calling him and his congressional flunkies on their every anti-American actions—seriously, will the rest of America realize the danger we are in when we see Rush Limbaugh marched through town in chains and leg manacles? Or will there be great cheering that the ‘Republican leader’ and Obama naysayer is finally done ‘hogging the airwaves’ with his treasonous, seditious mouth-flapping? :-O
*heavy sigh of sorrow at where my country seems to be heading—WHILE AMERICA SLEEPS*
Yep, that was my first thought. The bastards on the left are "undefining" terrorism so that they can apply the methods used to fight it to their political enemies.
Like you said, we're not gonna take it, and we WILL resist, violently.
Remember that DHS memo Napelitano let out? Returning Vets were on the list.
How many “much anticipated” press conferences can this guy have in a week???
Bottom line is that it says that those articles listed in the Constitution may be ignored and explicitly states that habeas corpus is lifted. Freedom of opinion, press, assembly, postal, telegraph, and telephone is suspended and warrants for searches are no longer required. Property may be confiscated as required. (They say that this is required to fight the communists). That paragraph 4(2) says that if there is a threat to human life, a person can be imprisoned for not less than 6 months (i.e., it has to be at least 6 months, but could be longer)...while if a death has occurred, imprisonment for not less than 2 years.
RIght, this stuff isn’t meant for the jihadists but for ‘us’. Recall how the NHS was all about tagging dangerous right wingers, ‘Constitutionalists’ etc as the enemy. Yup, those bitter clingers better watch out b/c 0bama might has to incarcerate them for their own protection.
Using Catholic Priests and Bishops as a props, he advocates the killing of children.
Using the Military as a backdrop, he slashes the defense budget.
I could go on but it makes me ill.
Keep in mind that DHS just labeled all of us Terrorists because we're anti-tax, Pro-Life, etc, etc,...
Perhaps your interpretation of who is a terrorist differs from The One's interpretaion. Maybe Zero doesn't have the Gitmo detainees in mind.
That was clear with the DHS warning list, since pulled and being reviewed.
We must learn from the past, or we will repeat it.
See my freep profile for the source of these rules. They probably won't be here long.
LESSON NO. 1: If a bureaucrat, or a soldier sent by a bureaucrat, comes to knock down your door and take you someplace you do not want to go because of who you are or what you think -- kill him. If you can, kill the politician who sent him. You will likely die anyway, and you will be saving someone else the same fate. For it is a universal truth that the intended victims always far outnumber the tyrant's executioners. Any nation which practices this lesson will quickly run out of executioners and tyrants, or they will run out of it.
LESSON NO. 2: If a bureaucrat, or a soldier sent by a bureaucrat, comes to knock down your door and confiscate your firearms -- kill him. The disarmament of law-abiding citizens is the required precursor to genocide.
LESSON NO. 3: If a bureaucrat tells you that he must know if you have a firearm so he can put your name on a list for the common good, or wants to issue you an identity card so that you be more easily identified -- tell him to go to hell. Registration of people and firearms is the required precursor to the tyranny which permits genocide. Bureaucrats cannot send soldiers to doors that are not on their list.
I’ll have to take you word for that, but “preventive detention” cannot - repeat CANNOT - be a good thing. obama is growing bolder by the day.
Regulation of the Reich President for the Protection of People and State. From 28 February 1933
On the basis of Article 48 paragraph 2 of the Empire Constitution is to defend against Communist acts of violence staatsgefährdender decreed the following:
Articles 114, 115, 117, 118, 123, 124 and 153 of the Constitution of the German Empire will continue to be abrogated. There are therefore certain restrictions on personal freedom, freedom of expression, including freedom of the press, of assembly and association laws, intervention in the mail, postal, telegraph and Fernsprechgeheimnis, orders of Haussuchungen and seizures, and restrictions on property outside otherwise designated statutory limits.
If in a country for the restoration of public order and security necessary precautions are not taken, the Reich Government in so far as the powers of the supreme Land authority temporarily exercise.
The authorities of the countries and communities (community associations) have on the measures adopted § 2 of the Reich Government in its responsibility to be obeyed.
Who by the supreme state authorities or their subordinate authorities to implement this regulation or orders adopted by the imperial government adopted pursuant to Section 2 or who contravenes orders to such infringement or incites asking is, unless the act under other regulations with a more severe punishment is threatened with imprisonment not less than one month or a fine from 150 up to 15000 reichsmark punished.
Who through infringement under para 1 is a common threat to human life brings, with imprisonment, in mitigating circumstances with imprisonment not less than six months and if the infringement of a human death caused by the death, in mitigating circumstances with imprisonment not less than two years. In addition to asset recovery can be detected.
Who gemeingefährlichen to a breach (para. 2) incites or calls, with imprisonment, in mitigating circumstances with imprisonment not less than three months punished.
I would have had a serious problem if Bush had proposed this if the suspects were United States citizens or people who had “lawfully” entered the United States. Our constitution prevents the detaining of anyone without a trial. However, the world is not a party to our constitution. They bear none of the responsibilities and do not get many of the protections.
My question is are the target suspects the administration has in mind conservatives who have a weapon and ammunition cache which the libs consider a potential threat to their totalitarian regime. They could never put a US citizen on trial for possessing weapons but they could detain him as a suspected terrorist. These people are getting really dangerous.
No mention on whether or not this would apply to U.S. CITIZENS is there? “PREVENTATIVE DETENTENTION”, eh?
This wouldn’t have anything to do with that HS memo about “Domestic Terrorism Watch List” would it? NAH, couldn’t be, right? And, I’m SURE Obama isn’t going to use a law like this against his own (former) supporters, especially those on the left who are now probably itching to start a protest against SOMETHING, right?
You know, I watched PBS two nights ago about the Kennedys (half interesting - half barf alert! LOL).
This really reminds me of when Bobby Kennedy confronted that sheriff about arresting people BEFORE a crime was committed because the sheriff just “KNEW” they were going to do something wrong...
The Communists really did infiltrate that party but good, didn’t they? And, NOW the liberals have, instead of a Communist “prodigy” like they wanted, a MUSLIM FASCIST DICTATOR with a Messiah complex and they fell for it all hook, line, and sinker - they must be so proud of themselves right now...
You know, if it didn’t mean dark times ahead for ALL citizens I might be tempted to laugh...
I believe he is mulling this in response to the unrepentant jihadis but once it become “legal” it could then be applied to anyone deemed a “terrorist”
such as people “refusing to cooperate” with quarantine orders during a flu epidemic or other disaster. Mass scope would preclude the ability to hold speedy trials
nah, I think this is what it says it is... today. The part where it morphs into a tool for him to, in a Lincolnesque way, jail his opposition comes later.
But we do it already.
Think convicted sex offenders deemed too dangerous to be released AFTER their sentences are done. The precedent is established. Have a nice future.
America -- a great idea, didn't last.
I’m sure liberals will call “Godwin!!” with the Nazi references here, but considering how much HolyO has been emboldened (read: sockpuppet controller George Soros, fellow sockpuppets in power Rahmbo and Axetogrindrod) it isn’t too far to imagine becoming a reality!! :-(
Oh, America! Sometimes I weep for you the way Jesus wept for Jerusalem!! :*( :*(
The good thing about this is that we’ll all eventually be able to put a face to a screen name.
“terrorism suspects”=domestic terrorists
“domestic terrorists”=right wing extremists
“right wing extremists”=anyone who disagrees with their agenda: IOW, you and me
Islam is the religion of peace. 0 bows to them.
I don’t recall this site being a hotbed of enthusiasm for DHS. We all knew what it would be like, and it was a PC pile of cr@p right from the word go, with that Tom Ridge who looks like he’s deaf, to Count Chocula himself, Michael Cherktoff.