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Obama Is Said to Consider Preventive Detention Plan (Flush the Constitution!)
NY Slimes (Page A18!!!) ^ | 5/21/2009 | SHERYL GAY STOLBERG

Posted on 05/21/2009 8:05:48 AM PDT by markomalley

WASHINGTON — President Obama told human rights advocates at the White House on Wednesday that he was mulling the need for a “preventive detention” system that would establish a legal basis for the United States to incarcerate terrorism suspects who are deemed a threat to national security but cannot be tried, two participants in the private session said.

The discussion, in a 90-minute meeting in the Cabinet Room that included Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. and other top administration officials, came on the eve of a much-anticipated speech Mr. Obama is to give Thursday on a number of thorny national security matters, including his promise to close the detention center at the naval base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

Human rights advocates are growing deeply uneasy with Mr. Obama’s stance on these issues, especially his recent move to block the release of photographs showing abuse of detainees, and his announcement that he is willing to try terrorism suspects in military commissions — a concept he criticized bitterly as a presidential candidate.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Government
KEYWORDS: communist; cwii; detention; dictatorship; fascism; fascist; gitmo; henrybowman; lping; nazi; obamaregime; spartansixdelta; totalitarian; unconstitutional
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Last time I heard the term "Preventive Detention" in connection with the Gleichschaltung that allowed absolute control by the Nazis.

Verordnung des Reichspräsidenten zum Schutz von Volk und Staat. Vom 28. Februar 1933

Auf Grund des Artikels 48 Abs. 2 der Reichsverfassung wird zur Abwehr kommunistischer staatsgefährdender Gewaltakte folgendes verordnet:

§ 1

Die Artikel 114, 115, 117, 118, 123, 124 und 153 der Verfassung des Deutschen Reichs werden bis auf weiteres außer Kraft gesetzt. Es sind daher Beschränkungen der persönlichen Freiheit, des Rechts der freien Meinungsäußerung, einschließlich der Pressefreiheit, des Vereins- und Versammlungsrechts, Eingriffe in das Brief-, Post-, Telegraphen- und Fernsprechgeheimnis, Anordnungen von Haussuchungen und von Beschlagnahmen sowie Beschränkungen des Eigentums auch außerhalb der sonst hierfür bestimmten gesetzlichen Grenzen zulässig.

§ 2

Werden in einem Lande die zur Wiederherstellung der öffentlichen Sicherheit und Ordnung nötigen Maßnahmen nicht getroffen, so kann die Reichsregierung insoweit die Befugnisse der obersten Landesbehörde vorübergehend wahrnehmen.

§ 3

Die Behörden der Länder und Gemeinden (Gemeindeverbände) haben den auf Grund des § 2 erlassenen Anordnungen der Reichsregierung im Rahmen ihrer Zuständigkeit Folge zu leisten.

§ 4

Wer den von den obersten Landesbehörden oder den ihnen nachgeordneten Behörden zur Durchführung dieser Verordnung erlassenen Anordnungen oder den von der Reichsregierung gemäß § 2 erlassenen Anordnungen zuwiderhandelt oder wer zu solcher Zuwiderhandlung auffordert oder anreizt, wird, soweit nicht die Tat nach anderen Vorschriften mit einer schwereren Strafe bedroht ist, mit Gefängnis nicht unter einem Monat oder mit Geldstrafe von 150 bis zu 15000 Reichsmark bestraft.

Wer durch Zuwiderhandlung nach Abs. 1 eine gemeine Gefahr für Menschenleben herbeiführt, wird mit Zuchthaus, bei mildernden Umständen mit Gefängnis nicht unter sechs Monaten und, wenn die Zuwiderhandlung den Tod eines Menschen verursacht, mit dem Tode, bei mildernden Umständen mit Zuchthaus nicht unter zwei Jahren bestraft. Daneben kann auf Vermögenseinziehung erkannt werden.

Wer zu einer gemeingefährlichen Zuwiderhandlung (Abs. 2) auffordert oder anreizt, wird mit Zuchthaus, bei mildernden Umständen mit Gefängnis nicht unter drei Monaten bestraft.

The key paragraphs are 1 and 4(2). Sounds exactly what Ø is proposing here!

1 posted on 05/21/2009 8:05:49 AM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley
Es sind daher Beschränkungen der persönlichen Freiheit, des Rechts der freien Meinungsäußerung

Ummmmmm, yeah.

2 posted on 05/21/2009 8:07:16 AM PDT by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: markomalley

If Bush had proposed the same thing, would we be calling him a Nazi? For some of the terrorists at Gitmo, this may be necessary.


3 posted on 05/21/2009 8:07:36 AM PDT by reaganaut1
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To: markomalley

Golly, I guess there is something to those ‘FEMA Camps’.


4 posted on 05/21/2009 8:07:51 AM PDT by BGHater (It's easy to be a Conservative now.)
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To: markomalley

Obama’s 4 years cannot pass fast enough.


5 posted on 05/21/2009 8:08:22 AM PDT by DonaldC
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To: markomalley

I can’t believe he’s standing in FRONT of the Constitution READING this stuff. Geez, why doesn’t he just send an email ... he will read anything the teleprompter tells him. Such a fake ... and with the Constitution right behind him. He should turn around and read it!


6 posted on 05/21/2009 8:08:41 AM PDT by DHC-2 (Flag being flown: Title of Liberty (Reason at http://www.jdlinn.com/liberty))
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To: markomalley

Uhhh... dude, that’s in German.


7 posted on 05/21/2009 8:10:06 AM PDT by ichabod1 (I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet (GOP Poet))
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To: DHC-2

Starting with Bill Ayers?


8 posted on 05/21/2009 8:10:15 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: markomalley

These “human rights” people would be OK with obama doing this to US citizens ... just not terrorist suspects


9 posted on 05/21/2009 8:10:17 AM PDT by silverleaf ("Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal ( Martin Luther King))
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To: markomalley; Jeff Head; Joe Brower
WASHINGTON — President Obama told human rights advocates at the White House on Wednesday that he was mulling the need for a “preventive detention” system that would establish a legal basis for the United States to incarcerate terrorism suspects who are deemed a threat to national security but cannot be tried, two participants in the private session said.

Obama is a Nazi piece of dogsh*t for even considering this. He's not doing it to go after muslim terrorists; he's doing this to go after all of the Right.

CWII BUMP

10 posted on 05/21/2009 8:10:46 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (We either Free America ourselves, or it is midnight for humanity for a thousand years.)
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To: markomalley
a “preventive detention” system that would establish a legal basis for the United States to incarcerate terrorism suspects who are deemed a threat to national security but cannot be tried

Sounds remarkably like Gitmo, except for who might qualify for admittance...

11 posted on 05/21/2009 8:11:02 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: markomalley
Lord, please do not abandon us. Whatever our iniquities, have mercy on your children.
12 posted on 05/21/2009 8:11:03 AM PDT by Jolla
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To: reaganaut1
If Bush had proposed the same thing, would we be calling him a Nazi?

Well, I didn't say it above a whisper (around here), but I was not in favor of establishment of either DHS or the DNI.

The rationale I used was that certain powers are required during wartime, but structural changes are dangerous because of administrations that would come in later and abuse it (I was thinking about Hitlery at the time...Bambi was not even imaginable in my worst nightmare)

Also, IIRC, Bush did what he did with Gitmo exactly because he knew that constitutionally he couldn't do so within CONUS.

But, since Congress and the Press are total Ø lapdogs, this won't ever meet more than Page A-18 coverage.

13 posted on 05/21/2009 8:11:08 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: reaganaut1

Exactly—HolyO channeling Dubya ping!

(Although HolyO’s reasons may be more sinister than liberals ever thought President Bush’s were!)


14 posted on 05/21/2009 8:11:16 AM PDT by pillut48 (CJ in TX --"God help us all, and God help America!!" --my new mantra for the next 4 years)
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To: reaganaut1

What about for anti-abortion activists and gun “enthusiasts”?


15 posted on 05/21/2009 8:11:17 AM PDT by ichabod1 (I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet (GOP Poet))
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To: markomalley

Paragraph 1 translated-
The articles 114, 115, 117, 118, 123, 124 and 153 of the condition of the German Reich are repealed set until further notice. There is from there restrictions of the personal freedom, the right of the free expression of opinion, including freedom of the press, the association and meeting right, interferences in the letter, post office, telegraph and telephone secret, arrangements of house searches and of seizures as well as restrictions of the property also outside of the legal borders otherwise for this determined permissible.

Paragraph 4 translated-
Who contravenes the arrangements issued from the highest Land authorities or to them the subordinate authorities to the execution of this regulation or from the realm government in accordance with § 2 issued arrangements or who requests or stimulates to such offence, as far as the act according to other regulations is not threatened with a heavier punishment, with prison under one month or with fine from 150 to 15000 realm Marks one does not punish.


16 posted on 05/21/2009 8:12:02 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: markomalley
That great liberal hero FDR did the same thing to Americans of Japanese ancestry during World War II.
17 posted on 05/21/2009 8:12:25 AM PDT by GreenHornet
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To: markomalley

I don’t see a large problem with this as long as it applies to non-citizens. All full Constitutional rights MUST apply to citizens, without exception, but I think exactly which apply to non-citizens can be a matter of statute.


18 posted on 05/21/2009 8:12:35 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog ( The Hog of Steel)
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To: reaganaut1

I forgot the part of the Geneva Conventions where it affords protection to terrorists.


19 posted on 05/21/2009 8:12:52 AM PDT by wastedyears (Iron Maiden's gonna get ya, no matter how far!)
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To: markomalley
So, Preventative detention is OK but a Preemptive War is Not?
20 posted on 05/21/2009 8:13:33 AM PDT by Never on my watch (We need people in office who have made their reputation by earning money, not spending it.)
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To: Izzy Dunne
Sounds remarkably like Gitmo, except for who might qualify for admittance...

Except those in Gitmo where caught on the battlefield, thus it is punitive, Bambi is calling for preemptive.

21 posted on 05/21/2009 8:13:42 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: silverleaf

Terrorist suspects = democrat party


22 posted on 05/21/2009 8:14:16 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: markomalley

terrorism suspects = white Christians


23 posted on 05/21/2009 8:15:17 AM PDT by Sig Sauer P220 (The great object is that every man be armed. - Patrick Henry)
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To: markomalley

Human rights activists for abortion....now there’s an oxy moron.


24 posted on 05/21/2009 8:15:31 AM PDT by mikelets456
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To: markomalley

The President has already been shredding the Constitution.

Why stop now?


25 posted on 05/21/2009 8:16:04 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Centurion2000

Yes, that is a huge possibility with these power hungry monsters in the White House!

My worst nightmare is that HolyO starts having conservative talk show hosts rounded up for ‘treason’ for blatantly calling him and his congressional flunkies on their every anti-American actions—seriously, will the rest of America realize the danger we are in when we see Rush Limbaugh marched through town in chains and leg manacles? Or will there be great cheering that the ‘Republican leader’ and Obama naysayer is finally done ‘hogging the airwaves’ with his treasonous, seditious mouth-flapping? :-O

*heavy sigh of sorrow at where my country seems to be heading—WHILE AMERICA SLEEPS*


26 posted on 05/21/2009 8:16:08 AM PDT by pillut48 (CJ in TX --"God help us all, and God help America!!" --my new mantra for the next 4 years)
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To: Centurion2000
He's not doing it to go after muslim terrorists; he's doing this to go after all of the Right.

Yep, that was my first thought. The bastards on the left are "undefining" terrorism so that they can apply the methods used to fight it to their political enemies.

Like you said, we're not gonna take it, and we WILL resist, violently.

27 posted on 05/21/2009 8:16:25 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: bamahead

.


28 posted on 05/21/2009 8:16:30 AM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: mikelets456

Remember that DHS memo Napelitano let out? Returning Vets were on the list.


29 posted on 05/21/2009 8:17:10 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: markomalley

How many “much anticipated” press conferences can this guy have in a week???


30 posted on 05/21/2009 8:17:14 AM PDT by greatplains
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To: ichabod1; Puppage
Uhhh... dude, that’s in German.

Sorry.

Bottom line is that it says that those articles listed in the Constitution may be ignored and explicitly states that habeas corpus is lifted. Freedom of opinion, press, assembly, postal, telegraph, and telephone is suspended and warrants for searches are no longer required. Property may be confiscated as required. (They say that this is required to fight the communists). That paragraph 4(2) says that if there is a threat to human life, a person can be imprisoned for not less than 6 months (i.e., it has to be at least 6 months, but could be longer)...while if a death has occurred, imprisonment for not less than 2 years.

Sorry...

31 posted on 05/21/2009 8:17:20 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: silverleaf

RIght, this stuff isn’t meant for the jihadists but for ‘us’. Recall how the NHS was all about tagging dangerous right wingers, ‘Constitutionalists’ etc as the enemy. Yup, those bitter clingers better watch out b/c 0bama might has to incarcerate them for their own protection.


32 posted on 05/21/2009 8:17:44 AM PDT by 556x45
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To: ichabod1
Using the Constitution as a backdrop, he disgraces it.

Using Catholic Priests and Bishops as a props, he advocates the killing of children.

Using the Military as a backdrop, he slashes the defense budget.

I could go on but it makes me ill.

33 posted on 05/21/2009 8:18:16 AM PDT by Never on my watch (We need people in office who have made their reputation by earning money, not spending it.)
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To: reaganaut1
If Bush had proposed the same thing, would we be calling him a Nazi? For some of the terrorists at Gitmo, this may be necessary.

Keep in mind that DHS just labeled all of us Terrorists because we're anti-tax, Pro-Life, etc, etc,...

34 posted on 05/21/2009 8:18:22 AM PDT by txroadkill (The Internet is all about me)
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To: reaganaut1
If Bush had proposed the same thing, would we be calling him a Nazi? For some of the terrorists at Gitmo, this may be necessary.

Perhaps your interpretation of who is a terrorist differs from The One's interpretaion. Maybe Zero doesn't have the Gitmo detainees in mind.

35 posted on 05/21/2009 8:18:54 AM PDT by badgerlandjim (Hillary Clinton is to politics as Helen Thomas is to beauty.)
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To: markomalley; Allegra; big'ol_freeper; Lil'freeper; TrueKnightGalahad; blackie; Larry Lucido; ...
Re: President Obama told human rights advocates at the White House on Wednesday that he was mulling the need for a “preventive detention” system that would establish a legal basis for the United States to incarcerate terrorism suspects who are deemed a threat to national security but cannot be tried, two participants in the private session said.

Nicht vor sage... Photobucket ich diese gleiche Sache nicht siebzig Jahren.

36 posted on 05/21/2009 8:19:10 AM PDT by Bender2 ("I've got a twisted sense of humor, and everything amuses me." RAH Beyond this Horizon)
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To: Centurion2000
Obama is a Nazi piece of dogsh*t for even considering this. He's not doing it to go after muslim terrorists; he's doing this to go after all of the Right.

That was clear with the DHS warning list, since pulled and being reviewed.

We must learn from the past, or we will repeat it.

See my freep profile for the source of these rules. They probably won't be here long.

LESSON NO. 1: If a bureaucrat, or a soldier sent by a bureaucrat, comes to knock down your door and take you someplace you do not want to go because of who you are or what you think -- kill him. If you can, kill the politician who sent him. You will likely die anyway, and you will be saving someone else the same fate. For it is a universal truth that the intended victims always far outnumber the tyrant's executioners. Any nation which practices this lesson will quickly run out of executioners and tyrants, or they will run out of it.

LESSON NO. 2: If a bureaucrat, or a soldier sent by a bureaucrat, comes to knock down your door and confiscate your firearms -- kill him. The disarmament of law-abiding citizens is the required precursor to genocide.

LESSON NO. 3: If a bureaucrat tells you that he must know if you have a firearm so he can put your name on a list for the common good, or wants to issue you an identity card so that you be more easily identified -- tell him to go to hell. Registration of people and firearms is the required precursor to the tyranny which permits genocide. Bureaucrats cannot send soldiers to doors that are not on their list.

37 posted on 05/21/2009 8:19:49 AM PDT by cayuga (We lost the soapbox to MSM bias, and the ballot box to ACORN. The cartridge box is all we have left.)
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To: markomalley

I’ll have to take you word for that, but “preventive detention” cannot - repeat CANNOT - be a good thing. obama is growing bolder by the day.


38 posted on 05/21/2009 8:21:08 AM PDT by ElayneJ
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To: markomalley

Google translation:

Regulation of the Reich President for the Protection of People and State. From 28 February 1933

On the basis of Article 48 paragraph 2 of the Empire Constitution is to defend against Communist acts of violence staatsgefährdender decreed the following:

§ 1

Articles 114, 115, 117, 118, 123, 124 and 153 of the Constitution of the German Empire will continue to be abrogated. There are therefore certain restrictions on personal freedom, freedom of expression, including freedom of the press, of assembly and association laws, intervention in the mail, postal, telegraph and Fernsprechgeheimnis, orders of Haussuchungen and seizures, and restrictions on property outside otherwise designated statutory limits.

§ 2

If in a country for the restoration of public order and security necessary precautions are not taken, the Reich Government in so far as the powers of the supreme Land authority temporarily exercise.

§ 3

The authorities of the countries and communities (community associations) have on the measures adopted § 2 of the Reich Government in its responsibility to be obeyed.

§ 4

Who by the supreme state authorities or their subordinate authorities to implement this regulation or orders adopted by the imperial government adopted pursuant to Section 2 or who contravenes orders to such infringement or incites asking is, unless the act under other regulations with a more severe punishment is threatened with imprisonment not less than one month or a fine from 150 up to 15000 reichsmark punished.

Who through infringement under para 1 is a common threat to human life brings, with imprisonment, in mitigating circumstances with imprisonment not less than six months and if the infringement of a human death caused by the death, in mitigating circumstances with imprisonment not less than two years. In addition to asset recovery can be detected.

Who gemeingefährlichen to a breach (para. 2) incites or calls, with imprisonment, in mitigating circumstances with imprisonment not less than three months punished.


39 posted on 05/21/2009 8:21:28 AM PDT by Clint Williams (Read Roto-Reuters -- we're the spinmeisters | America -- a great idea, didn't last.)
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To: markomalley

I would have had a serious problem if Bush had proposed this if the suspects were United States citizens or people who had “lawfully” entered the United States. Our constitution prevents the detaining of anyone without a trial. However, the world is not a party to our constitution. They bear none of the responsibilities and do not get many of the protections.

My question is are the target suspects the administration has in mind conservatives who have a weapon and ammunition cache which the libs consider a potential threat to their totalitarian regime. They could never put a US citizen on trial for possessing weapons but they could detain him as a suspected terrorist. These people are getting really dangerous.


40 posted on 05/21/2009 8:22:53 AM PDT by Truth is a Weapon (Truth, it hurts soooo good!)
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To: markomalley

No mention on whether or not this would apply to U.S. CITIZENS is there? “PREVENTATIVE DETENTENTION”, eh?

This wouldn’t have anything to do with that HS memo about “Domestic Terrorism Watch List” would it? NAH, couldn’t be, right? And, I’m SURE Obama isn’t going to use a law like this against his own (former) supporters, especially those on the left who are now probably itching to start a protest against SOMETHING, right?

You know, I watched PBS two nights ago about the Kennedys (half interesting - half barf alert! LOL).

This really reminds me of when Bobby Kennedy confronted that sheriff about arresting people BEFORE a crime was committed because the sheriff just “KNEW” they were going to do something wrong...

The Communists really did infiltrate that party but good, didn’t they? And, NOW the liberals have, instead of a Communist “prodigy” like they wanted, a MUSLIM FASCIST DICTATOR with a Messiah complex and they fell for it all hook, line, and sinker - they must be so proud of themselves right now...

You know, if it didn’t mean dark times ahead for ALL citizens I might be tempted to laugh...


41 posted on 05/21/2009 8:23:09 AM PDT by LibertyRocks ( http://LibertyRocks.wordpress.com ~ ANTI-OBAMA STUFF : http://cafepress.com/NO_ObamaBiden08)
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To: 556x45

I believe he is mulling this in response to the unrepentant jihadis but once it become “legal” it could then be applied to anyone deemed a “terrorist”

such as people “refusing to cooperate” with quarantine orders during a flu epidemic or other disaster. Mass scope would preclude the ability to hold speedy trials


42 posted on 05/21/2009 8:23:13 AM PDT by silverleaf ("Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal ( Martin Luther King))
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To: Centurion2000

nah, I think this is what it says it is... today. The part where it morphs into a tool for him to, in a Lincolnesque way, jail his opposition comes later.


43 posted on 05/21/2009 8:23:27 AM PDT by ichabod1 (I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet (GOP Poet))
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To: markomalley
Isn't “preventive detention” exactly what the Burmese generals are doing with Aung San Suu Kyi? You can't do that in the USA. As much as I dislike Islam, I am not willing to go there. People picked up on the battlefield during a war are an entirely different matter. They must be shown, however, to be enemy combatants.
44 posted on 05/21/2009 8:23:59 AM PDT by JimSEA
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To: ElayneJ
I’ll have to take you word for that, but “preventive detention” cannot - repeat CANNOT - be a good thing.

But we do it already.

Think convicted sex offenders deemed too dangerous to be released AFTER their sentences are done. The precedent is established. Have a nice future.

America -- a great idea, didn't last.

45 posted on 05/21/2009 8:24:07 AM PDT by Clint Williams (Read Roto-Reuters -- we're the spinmeisters | America -- a great idea, didn't last.)
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To: Clint Williams

I’m sure liberals will call “Godwin!!” with the Nazi references here, but considering how much HolyO has been emboldened (read: sockpuppet controller George Soros, fellow sockpuppets in power Rahmbo and Axetogrindrod) it isn’t too far to imagine becoming a reality!! :-(

Oh, America! Sometimes I weep for you the way Jesus wept for Jerusalem!! :*( :*(


46 posted on 05/21/2009 8:24:22 AM PDT by pillut48 (CJ in TX --"God help us all, and God help America!!" --my new mantra for the next 4 years)
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To: markomalley

Tick.....tock.....


47 posted on 05/21/2009 8:24:33 AM PDT by ButThreeLeftsDo (FR. ....Monthly Donors Wanted.)
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To: markomalley

The good thing about this is that we’ll all eventually be able to put a face to a screen name.


48 posted on 05/21/2009 8:25:18 AM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: markomalley

“terrorism suspects”=domestic terrorists
“domestic terrorists”=right wing extremists
“right wing extremists”=anyone who disagrees with their agenda: IOW, you and me

Islam is the religion of peace. 0 bows to them.


49 posted on 05/21/2009 8:26:17 AM PDT by tumblindice (Americas Founding Fathers, all armed conservatives)
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To: markomalley

I don’t recall this site being a hotbed of enthusiasm for DHS. We all knew what it would be like, and it was a PC pile of cr@p right from the word go, with that Tom Ridge who looks like he’s deaf, to Count Chocula himself, Michael Cherktoff.


50 posted on 05/21/2009 8:26:49 AM PDT by ichabod1 (I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet (GOP Poet))
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