WHY ARE ORGANISMS DIFFERENT FROM MACHINES?

http://www.people.vcu.edu/~mikuleck/PPRISS3.html ^ | Donald C. Mikulecky

[TChris]

What do a fish and a laser beam have in common?

[RobRoy]

C. S. Lewis said, “You do not have a sould. You are a soul. You have a body.”

I see my body, LITERALLY as a biological machine I occupy for a few decades on this planet. At the termination (death) of this organism, I go on to eternity.

This biological machine is a pretty cool design though. It can create other tools and levers (computers, guns, baseball bats, airplanes, jetskis) to both create more and just have a jolly good time while I occupy it. And it is self repairing and self replicating.

Pretty cool design actually.

[MHGinTN]

The Kineman paper betty boop linked to asserts that matter has emerge from life. John's Gospel starts with the assertion that 'by were all things made, and without Him was nothing made' ... 'And the Word was with God and was God' ... 'In the beginning was the Word' ... [ 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. John 1, KJV]

[hosepipe]

[ John's Gospel starts with the assertion that 'by him were all things made, and without Him was nothing made' ... 'And the Word was with God and was God' ... 'In the beginning was the Word' ]

And that impacts what I said how?..
By the way, what is a word?.. A symbol?.. An idea?.. A person?..

[MHGinTN]

He became a person and dwelt among us. The Word became flesh. I Am spoke, and worlds lept into existence.

[hosepipe]

[ He became a person and dwelt among us. The Word became flesh. I Am spoke, and worlds lept into existence. ]

I have no problem with that..
So then; "the Word" lived before he became flesh?..

[aruanan]

So then; "the Word" lived before he became flesh?..

Well, according to someone who knew him:

"Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him."

[hosepipe]

[ He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him." ]

I see.. he made the planet far before any flesh came into existence.. including his own.. I'm down with that..

[aruanan]

I see.. he made the planet far before any flesh came into existence.. including his own.. I'm down with that..

Funny, isn't it, how metaphysically retarded modern day man has become?

[Alamo-Girl]

Even if there were any basis for the belief in pre-mortal existence, it would be irrelevant.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. - John 3:5-7

And again,

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. – John 1:12-13

No matter how one envisions its origin, the life/soul/spirit of a man is doomed unless he is born again in the Spirit.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. – Romans 8:9

And once he has been reborn in God, he is alive already with Christ in God and his previous life is dead.

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. - Colossians 3:3

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20

It's not about us, where we came from, how we were made - it is about God. We cannot die, not because of who we are, but because of Who He IS.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand. I and [my] Father are one. - John 10:27-30

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39

God's Name is I AM.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you oh so very much for your outstanding essay post, dearest sister in Christ!

This needs to be emphasized:

In saying this, Descartes is not declaring man or his reason to be "king"; but only that the fact that he thinks is the only "objective" proof he has of his own real existence. It's a terribly profound statement. But to me, certainly not the most profound thing that Descartes ever said. That would be his decisive argument that the idea of God is the prior condition in the human mind for the mere possibility of any other idea, even that of the ego itself.

[hosepipe]

[ My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand. I and [my] Father are one. - John 10:27-30 ]

Amen.. Including Adam and Eve.. Moses.. All the Prophets.. even the Apostles.. All men, faithful or not, rightfully belong to God.. Unless you mean only "christians" belong to Jesus.. Surely you don't mean that do you?.. God is rightful owner of this entire planet.. and everything on it..

The Father does not own some things and Jesus owns other things.. for they are both ONE.. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one with each other.. as far as I can determine..

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for sharing your insights and for keeping me in the loop in this fascinating sidebar, dearest sister in Christ!

I'd like to bring three observations into the discussion.

The first is that man cannot close the time gap between his physically sensing a thing and his cognition of having sensed it.

The second concerns volumetric time and the term "eternal now." In Zen Buddhism the terms means living in the moment - which New Agers take up as something akin to "if it feels good, do it." In Jewish mysticism, eternal now means that all of time (past, present, future) is "present" to God. Also in Jewish mysticism as well as Christian belief, eternal now is the awareness of timelessness while yet in the flesh, i.e. the intersection of time and timelessness.

The third is that "timelessness" is more appropriate when meditating on God's Name I AM. Time, whether linear or volumetric - and with or without limitation (eternity) is still part of the creation and not a property of the Creator.

[hosepipe]

[ Funny, isn't it, how metaphysically retarded modern day man has become? ]

I don't know what that meant.. but it sounded important..

[Alamo-Girl]

Interesting that you should bring up Moses et al who walked the earth before God was enfleshed as Jesus Christ our Lord considering we are having another sidebar on time.

Only observers "in" time - sensing linear time, an arrow of time - would have a sense of a difference between the before and after Christ's being enfleshed.

God's Name is I AM.

Time is part of the creation, not a property of the Creator.

Thus, Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8) - and He is always the Lamb of God and the Lion of the Tribe of Judah (Revelation 5). Likewise, we are chosen from the foundation of the world - just like Moses, Abraham, David, etc.

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. - Ephesians 1:4-6

We are time-bound. God is not.

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. - Exodus 3:14

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. - John 8:58

As soon then as he had said unto them, I am [he], they went backward, and fell to the ground. - John 18:6

[hosepipe]

[ As soon then as he had said unto them, I am [he], they went backward, and fell to the ground. - John 18:6 ]

To have been a fly on the wall.. LoL...
Spiritual pratfalls...

[logos]

“The second concerns volumetric time and the term ‘eternal now.’ “

Such an interesting reality, the eternal now. It is the only reality we have from one moment to the next, the only time our actions have meaning. We cannot change in any way a past moment; it’s done, forever history. While our actions can have an impact on the moment(s) to come, we cannot safely predict that impact because we cannot see the future. True, most often our immediate future is as we expect it to be, but not because of anything we guaranteed. “Now” is all we have, truly. We have it from one moment to the next, but it’s like a river flowing by, constantly changing yet always looking the same. Sadly, most of the time we’re either dwelling on the past or trying to foresee the future and consequently, totally missing the “now”. Our lives literally pass us by why we’re looking the other way.

And of course, my “now” is different from your “now”, and God deals with me in my “now” and with you in your “now”, etc, etc.

[Alamo-Girl]

Indeed. LOLOL!

[Alamo-Girl]

What beautiful insights, dear brother in Christ! Thank you so much for sharing them.