WHY ARE ORGANISMS DIFFERENT FROM MACHINES?

http://www.people.vcu.edu/~mikuleck/PPRISS3.html ^ | Donald C. Mikulecky

[betty boop]

"[The late] Robert Rosen, a student of Nicholas Rashevsky and a product of the Mathematical Biology program at the University of Chicago started one line of research that grappled with the question [of discriminating organisms from machines] in the late 1950s. It is worth examining the progression, which lead Bob Rosen to realize that he was dealing with a poorly posed question and that when rephrased, the question had an earthshaking answer."

I found Mikulecky's article an absolutely astounding and valuable read — FWIW!

[betty boop]

Question: Do we have a potential "paradigm shift" on our hands here?

What do you think?

[al baby]

I think its to much reading for a Saturday afternoon

[bill1952]

The question is ridiculous.

Why is air different than dirt?
Who is Spain?

[Paladin2]

Organisms are mushy and machines are not.

[LiteKeeper]

read later

[freedumb2003]

Yikes!

This is a heck of a read! Perhaps you can distill the point of the article?

[mysterio]

Machines can't get drunk?

lol

Anyway, I have been thinking about this a lot lately. One could argue that we are bio-mechanical robots. And one could argue that we are not. I'm not diving into that debate, though.

[mc5cents]

Is this sort of like mortal man trying to explain the immortal? Can we ever understand creation? I don’t think so, but then again I could be wrong for I am just a mortal man. :-)

[onedoug]

WHY ARE ORGANISMS DIFFERENT FROM MACHINES?

Because (intelligent) organisms build machines and not the other way around.

[mc5cents]

Why is air different than dirt?

Oh, that one is easy. Answer: Because we say it is. Plus we have lots of "science" that can "prove" it. Got it?

[Psycho_Bunny]

And they aren’t tasty when BBQ’d.

[NeoConfederate]

Does this mean SUV’s have a right to life?

[valkyry1]

WHY ARE ORGANISMS DIFFERENT FROM MACHINES?

What is an organism? Sounds like the question he is really asking is why is life or the life force different from a machine. Its an odd question to me.

[tentmaker]

It may become one of the most important and hotly contested issues of this century.

[MHGinTN]

I would answer the question with a rift on the temporal nature of each ... machines are stuck in linear time whereas organisms (the soul; not the spirit, the soul, as in all living things; we humans have a spirit component, too) exist in planar time and use linear temporal aspects for expression in linear time.

[Paladin2]

They also taste different when mixed in the blender.

[Yardstick]

lol — your comment follows MHGinTN’s perfectly.

[betty boop]

My God, F15Eagle, but that is the very spitting image of me!!! LOL!!!

Seriously, among other things Rosen's work "comforts us" that Cyberdyne's intelligent yet malignant robots can be safely consigned to the realm of science fiction, and need not be entertained as a possibility capable of realization in any real human future.

Unless they find a way (are programmed by their designers) to be originators and willing agents of "formal causes." I don't know how it is even possible for such a thing to be accomplished — but the AI folks around here might have some ideas about that. And if they do, I hope they will weigh in with their insights here, soon.

I further acknowledge this subject matter deals with an entirely open question at this point. But a potentially immensely fruitful one. And I can tell you that there are scientists who appreciate Rosen's insights, and are now following his lead....

For instance, see an article by Kineman, J.J. and Kineman, J.R., "Life and Space-Time Cosmology." It was presented at the Proceedings of the 44thAnnual Meeting of the International Society for the Systems Science. Toronto, Canada. ISSS, in 2000. Unfortunately, it does not seem to be available at their site. (Why it is so difficult to locate on-line is beyond me.) But a friend who attended passed along a copy of the presentation, in Word format. If you'd like to see it, give me a yell via private FReepmail.