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Posted on 05/28/2009 12:13:14 PM PDT by pepperdog
Pastor David Jones and his wife Mary have been told that they cannot invite friends to their San Diego, Calif. home for a bible study....
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Funny...I'm willing to bet that this is some power-mad narcissist, since this is the kind of thing they do to bully people into doing things their way. This is probably the first time someone stood up and gave the County a black eye! And a Pastor no less. They expect Christians as a whole to "turn the other cheek".
>If they clog up the street, if they bring into the neighborhood a bunch of spoiled, unruly brats, if they throw their trash on the ground, if they make a racket. All of those things would be rude.
They would be rude, true. And the perpetrator would be able to be fined for littering, were that the case. A perpetrator could be fined, or perhaps have a civil-suit filled against him, were he to constantly “make a racket”.
These have NOTHING to do with religion, or or being required to get a permit to gather together for a bible study, which IS one of the reported items. A requirement to get a permit or license to participate/hold religious gatherings is, quite blatantly, contra-constitutional; that is the point.
There may be grounds for criminal or civil suits, true... but it is NOT from religious gathering. Period.
I remember that one!
I thought it was funny when that was reveled.
...awww... I was hoping for a legal smackdown on the city.
City-thugs... I mean government can be WAAAY out of line.
>Are you saying I cannot put my pig farm next to your house on your residential street? What kind of conservative are you anyway? What the heck. People telling other people what to do on their own land. (sarc)
Wait... are you saying you raise Congressmen for a living?
;)
>and what I stated was hand printed on that paper - cease/desist religious assembly.
And it is THAT which is so grievous.
>I do try to avoid arguments with other Christian denominations here since they almost never convince the opponent and do always entertain our mutual godless enemies. When we have won them over, we will have earned the moral right to argue with each other in public.
The essential-beliefs vs core-beliefs vs perceived-essential-beliefs dilemma. All too often we have our core-beliefs, which are founded on perceived-core-beliefs, yet do not mach what, in reality, are essential-beliefs.
Pastor David Jones has been hosting weekly Bible studies at his Bonita home during the past five years. About 15 people attend the meetings, he told 10News.
Jones said a visitor to a neighbor's house called the County after a Bible study member hit the visitor’s car while leaving. Shortly after, a county code enforcement officer gave him a citation that said he needed a permit to host the weekly Bible study meetings, he said.
Jones and his attorneys said he shouldn't have to get a permit for what he does inside his house. “We think it is clearly permissible. We think this is a violation of our constitutional rights,” Jones told 10News.
...
This is absurd!
You should NOT need a permit to have people over to your house for ANY reason.\
Fifteen people isn't a big deal and it has been going on for five years. If the fender bender is the issue, run it through the insurance company or settle it privately. Or the next time you have a PARTY, which is typically MORE THAN 15 PEOPLE, be prepared to PAY FOR A PERMIT!
It all depends on the demographics of the neighborhood. When a neighborhood becomes mostly retired people, it can get pretty nasty. I know from experience. We had a neighbor who lived in another section of the community, in a condo, and complained regularly because the real estate agent had rented one of the condos to a young divorcee with three young children. So, the young family moved to a single family house on the golf course. The nasty old man moved also, right across the golf course from her and started complaining all over again.
>This is probably the first time someone stood up and gave the County a black eye! And a Pastor no less. They expect Christians as a whole to “turn the other cheek”.
Please excuse the coarseness of the language I am about to use, but I think it best expresses the situation.
It seems to me that too many people, Christian & non-Christian, take “turn the other cheek” to mean ‘take it in the ass’.
Where in the Bible does it say to give up one’s own dignity? It does not; in fact, it could be argued that the reasoning for capital punishment on murder argues completely AGAINST giving-up/depriving-of dignity: because man was made in God’s image.
Also, ‘meek’ does not mean ‘weak’ as so many people seem to think. Jesus was meek; yet He had the Power and the Authority to call down legions of angles and decimate ANYBODY or any organization He wished... He did not because He is the Master of self-control. That is a far better definition of meekness, “power under control”. Another example would be Clark Kent / Superman.
You posted what I was thinking..and they sure do. When we rise up for righteousness sake, it blows their reality to smithereens, then the Accuser comes along calling us the "hypocrites."
It would be funny if it was so infuriating. We need to read the Bible more often. It says to put on the whole Armor of God, and stand up and fight.
This is how they do it folks. They don’t outlaw the freedom to practice religion, they simply outlaw the ability for more than one person to get together at any one time due to trumped up rules like “unlawful use of land.”
This is what liberals do folks. If we do not fight them here and now, we will be living in George Orwell’s world of 1984 before we know it.
JoMa
If this story doesn’t get people who identify themselves as strictly “conservative” to start thinking libertarian I don’t know what will.
The citation and cease and desist order "were directed solely towards the Joneses' religious activity," the letter said. "Specifically, the Joneses were not asked to stop hosting any kind of assembly generally, they were ordered to stop 'religious assembly.' Indeed, if the county was not targeting religious activity per se, it would presumably have to forbid any and all secular events where friends and neighbors are invited to a resident's home on a regular basis, including, but not limited to in-home poker games, book club meetings, Monday night football parties, girl and boy scout meetings, Tupperware parties, Bunco nights, bridge clubs, etc."
In fact, this should be pursued in the courts and precedent established for future such cases, as I have seen reports similar to this a number of times over the years.
Strange, I thought San diego and area was quite conservative!
He’s a very good choice. Dean’s a great guy in and out of the courtroom.
Drango, I appreciate being included in that ping.
The legal workup on that seemed very nice. They covered all the bases. I would be interested in being kept up to date on the response from the County of San Diego.
I don’t see that they have much of a choice other than to back off, rescind the demand that the Joneses cease their meetings or obtain a MUP.
I continue to believe that the county official was not sufficiently qualified to be conducting the code enforcement she was tasked with. Specifically, Code Enforcement Officer Cherie Cham chose to pick the wrong code to facilitate a remedy to a complaint that more than likely involved excessive (in the mind of the complainant) parking in a residential zone.
The legal arguments completely destroy the county’s ability to enforce Cham’s selected County Code. She’s going to cost the county a pastle of money, if her demands remain firm on behalf of the County.
I’ll bet Cham had no idea what a wasps nest of problems she was messing with, when she tried to get a resolution to the complaint using a religious meeting test.
Whether she intended to or simply wound up shattering the Joneses First Amendment rights related to religious gatherings by ignorance, she did in fact do that.
I have no doubt the Joneses will prevail here. I am glad to see they have promised to have their guests park on their property. Thus they will win the legal victory, and have a very good chance of winning the P.R. victory in the neighborhood as well.
Good deal.
What kind of a pinhead goes into someone else’s neighborhood to visit, and files a legal complaint against his friends or family’s neighbors?
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