Posted on 06/07/2009 9:45:48 AM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies
The Kenyan doesn't have the first intention of making it (or anything else) ''better''. He intends to see goobermint control of absolutely as many portions of your life as he can, period.
If you think otherwise, you're in for a very rude awakening, boyo. Visit the UK sometime, take a spin through the ''care'' provided by the vaunted ''National Plan''. Tell me then what you think of nationalised health care...if you survive.
I think defending the current healthcare system is a bad idea. I HATE my insurance company. I’ve always paid my premiums, I’m super healthy and they still try to screw me at every turn. Other people — including lots of conservatives — suffer under the current system.
I think offering a coherent, alternative plan would be a better approach. Where is the Republican plan?
With all due respect, Is health care a guaranteed right or a privilege?
I think that may determine how you define “results.” We don’t ration health care like other socialized systems do. The government is not dictating which procedures I can receive—I am in conjunction with my choice of insurance options. You put out a lot of statistics, yet I am not sure they tell the whole story.
So you define more results to spend less and cover more—we spend more because we are spending a lot more on technology than socialist systems. Technloogy that is available to the 85% as opposed to fewer under rationed systems. My daughter had an MRI done on newest machine in state of IL. It was done within 2 hours of doc determining it needed to be done. It was done by a private company that is competing with local hospitals for Imaging business. You won’t find that occuring in a socialized system.
I don’t define best by cheapest or most coverage. If I need a procedure done, I am going to go for the best doctor I can find—the most competent. We are going to lose the best and brightest if we have to emulate European health care. I have a friend whose daughter just took MCAT. I think she is nuts to want to go to 6+ years of Med school with the changes that are sadly likely to occur. My daughter a FR in college, is even reconsidering nursing/nurse practitioner career.
You mention US life expectancy being lower than any other industrialized nation—Well in fact, we have longer life expectancy than Denmark and Ireland, and if you look at the table, pretty much most industrialized nations have average life expectancy to live to late 70s.— Japan-81, Germany-78, England-78, US-77—this is not a huge difference among countries in my opinion. Life expectancy is determined by many factors besides access to health care—a lot is determined by lifestyle choices as we look at Japan and other Asian-Island nations.
You note a distinction between research, our university system, and general health care. Don’t you see that the advances in the University system become available to general health care—often immediately, always over time. In the Chicago area there are several University Hospitals that are open to the public as well as doing cutting edge research. There are constantly commercials on the radio for participating in research studies too.
I agree that Tort reform would help the system, but that won’t happen with Dem controlled government. I don’t blame what is going to happen on GOP cowardice. I believe that Bush even proposed private health care spending accounts for health insurance. That in my opinion should be the tact the GOP takes—give more choice and control to the citizenry...imagine that?!
You state that “The German, French and Japanese systems are so far superior and cheaper as to make anyone with a clue know how laughable and Goebbel-esque propaganda based lying is going on.” I really am not familiar with those systems as much as the Canadian system (lived in ND and Canadians in Fargo for med procedures was pretty common). Tell me why do you think these systems are superior and cheaper? How do you define superior and cheaper?
You just described your insurance system and they do not treat you, thankfully. If you paid cash for your health treatments and not a third party you would be able to continue choosing healthcare professionals of your preference.
You might want to watch out what you wish for - socialized medicine means waiting for healthcare professionals that someone else chooses for you.
Choose wisely.
“To advocate for the absolute end of freedom in the United States rather than drive an older vehicle or live in a smaller house seems very short sighted to me.”
When did I do that??
Not just Obama. The major corporations are for UHC as well so that they can get rid of that benefit and make the taxpayers pay for it.
You didn’t do it directly, but that kind of ‘can’t afford it’ type sob story is what is being used to advocate for socialized medicine.
If they control your health care, they control you totally. I believe that is the plan.
They want to control what we drive and in WI when we fill up our tanks, that we must buckle up and must wear helmets (good ideas, but does govt have to mandate).
They tell us what type of light bulbs we have, what temperature we can live in thru giving us smart thermostats in our houses toontrol our energy. They tell us what we can listen to (Fairness Doctrine), what we can think (political correctness).
Health Care is just the final nail in the freedom and liberty coffin and people just don’t get it. Soft tyranny—so now they can tell us we must eat this and can’t eat that, must do this exercise & how often, we can have this procedure but not that. Must go to this doctor, but not that one. It is just endless.
Did I leave anything out?
Oh, and best of all, we are in debt as far as the eye can see for all future generations to pay for all this. Remember the days when the dems would say, “How are we going to pay for a tax cut? “ Well I wish they would answer how they are going to pay for a huge power grab!
We are FAR from the best health care. I’m paying $1800 a month for a family policy, high deductible, limited prescriptions, very little dental or eyecare.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Shelby is right on the money.
I can see why you think otherwise. You have not made a good consumer decision with your policy.
You need to do some consumer research of what you are getting. I have researched when between employment and found plans in the range of $ 300 per month that cover what our family needs covered. When I was with one of the world’s largest corporations our family premiums were $ 800 per month and we had fabulous coverage. Now with my wife’s bare bones policy we pay 250 per month.
You have never been in a socialized medicine environment. If you have been in the Army you know what it can mean. Frantic phone calling for appointments weeks in advance (have to call immediately when appointment booking opened and if you didn’t get it wait for next month). Unmotivated care givers. Do you remember the Walter Reed scandal??
Socialized medicine!!!
Read about England - ambulances wait on the street with patients so their time doesn’t count against emergency room waiting time. Months of wait times in Canada for surgeries.
Obama will make it beyond miserable.
If obama is going to destroy the best health care system the world has ever known, then Shelby and some of his buddies in the senate and house had better hit the airways, radio and tv and let the American public know what’s in store for them. Write articles for newspapers and magazines, if a staffer does it, read it before it leaves the office, staffers work both sides if the aisle. Tell it like it is...show some evidence of socialist health care from Canada, England, Germany and anywhere else, get some of the patients or their families on the air with them and tell....tell what is going on with their kind of care. Do something like Senator Phil Graham did, quite a few times, when hillary was trying to socialize medicine. Everytime he had a chance he’d blare out, “she’ll get health care over my dead body”, until people and the screaming media
started agreeing with him. Remember in those days, billy and hillary could do NO wrong...cause he looked and acted soo LIKE a president...until......
And yet they drive cars around and take vacations and have internet and cable television. They wear new clothes, use riding lawnmowers, wear $100 sneakers... I don’t buy the crap that working middle class can’t afford it. They make choices, as do I, on what they spend money on.
Besides that, if they can’t afford to pay for health care with the private sector running it, how will they possibly pay the government for their health care?
There are few people who can’t afford health care, and there are provisions for taking care of those people. If a middle class working person doesn’t have health care, it is because he chose to spend his money on something else.
That kind of elitist snobbery is one of the reasons the conservatives are losing support AND elections. Ever think that maybe too many in the medical profession are just plain greedy?? And that goes for “big pharmo” too.
What ‘elitist snobbery’? It’s called taking responsibility for your own actions and wellbeing.
If you believe that the problem is that ‘too many in the medical profession are just plain greedy’, you are not only ignorant, but you are posting to the wrong website.
Our elected congress critters do have good health insurance and I would like to know with whom they are insured, I’ve heard one is Blue Cross..., what is the average payment into their type of health insurance, does the government pay a percentage, are dental,eye and hearing insurance included?
Agreed.
I wonder if some of the people who have expensive premiums may have lifestyle issues—I know at one point when I went out and self-purchased, I was asked a lot of lifestyle questions....
Also, maybe some folks can post where they are getting good deals on their insurance & type of coverage to help out those who have high premiums.
I have Blue Cross thru husband’s work. They have several options of coverage. Not sure of the monthly premiums—but could find out if anyone wants to know.
Does anyone know if the doctors and AMA supported Hussein? They certainly seem to be relatively silent in the entire debate over health care. They will speak up when they cannot make $500k a year any longer. Not all make that but the specialists do...
Then enjoy national healthcare- you’ve brought it on yourselves, and nobody wins. You offer no answers only more of the same as more and more working middle class Americans lose or can no longer afford health insurance. Most republicans aren’t much different that the dems. This discussion proves it, imho. Even conservatives can’t agree!!
At least I’ve admitted I don’t know what the answer is. All you’ve done is call me names.
Of course, the congress critters will have the best and unlikely we will get it either :(
—that would be an interesting question to submit to one of the many townhall meetings that are being planned to promote the government take-over...Mr. Reed, Ms. Pelosi, Mr. Pres, can we all go to your doc? Your hosp?, have your plan for your price?
Sorta like how they get to OPT OUT of Social Security....
BTW,I have Blue Cross, the POS option, but may change that in future (if it exists) as my kids are growing up and going out on own. We don’t have vision or hearing—which usually are not expenses we can’t handle. I have Delta Dental—medium coverage. I can get the costs from husband for you if you PM me.
I should add that they do have options for recent grads and individual policies. When we
“Also, maybe some folks can post where they are getting good deals on their insurance & type of coverage to help out those who have high premiums.”
In Maine we don’t have much choice/competition.
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