Pastor's comments on Tiller 'unbiblical'

Read Judges...

Which part?
Judges, ah yes, the accounting of a people that forgot God and which "every man did that which was right in his own eyes".

Judges 2

10...and there arose another generation after them, which knew not the LORD, nor yet the works which he had done for Israel.
11 And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim:
12 And they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD to anger.
13 And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.

Lots of mayhem went on in those days - which is hardly surprising for a people that forget God ...

Psalm 9:17
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

You make valid points. However, how can you say there is a lost soul, we don’t know. I agree any lost soul is a tragedy in theory, but then again those who can live life and not see all the signs all around us, have chosen. All we know is that which we can touch, and see on Earth. Who knows. The rest we take on faith and on the spirit.

But any connotation or implication that Tiller could be doing God’s work is an abomination to me. Though you haven’t said this I feel like there is some link here. I know we won’t see eye to eye on this issue. Tiller killed 60,000+, and this one man who removed Tiller 1. Perhaps God is watching our response to the killing of the innocent and appalled how we can just smugly sit and be completely apathetic to this crime? We don’t know. We also don’t know if Roeder wasn’t moved by the spirit right? We don’t know. But I can tell you, Tiller was no innocent. Period.

Yes, I know James, and have read James actually quite recently. The issue is very simple to me. At some point man reaches the end of their patience, enduring is one thing, being a lamb to slaughter another. This feminization of God’s word, this concept that God want’s us to do nothing but wait, and endure is simply not what I believe. If mankind doesn’t have the duty to protect the weak and the innocent, do you believe prayer alone is your answer? There is no glory in suffering, it’s merely an excuse for the weak who choose to abide by their masters(Whether financial bondage, Job, spouse, etc) and pray for deliverance, that they themselves even confronted with freedom would likely never accept.

I’m way off topic now, and ranting, but in the meantime, pray for all of us who feel that at some point more than talk must be done. In the end if the strong didn’t defend the weak, you and I wouldn’t be here.

There is in fact a time to kill, a time to pray, and a time to wait. The issue is understanding well enough to interpret when we are in which phase, and be willing to respond.

Believe it or not, I agree with almost the entirety of what you wrote in Post 45, but let me dig out a few gray areas where we probably differ a bit - lest this would make for a dull reply...

Tiller killed 60,000+, and this one man who removed Tiller 1. Perhaps God is watching our response to the killing of the innocent and appalled how we can just smugly sit and be completely apathetic to this crime? We don’t know. We also don’t know if Roeder wasn’t moved by the spirit right? We don’t know. But I can tell you, Tiller was no innocent. Period.

Oh, I am a bit familiar with the numbers. Roughly 47 Million babies murdered on the altar of "free" sex and convenience (our modern day version of Molech) vs. 5 Abortionists (Molech's High Priests) - since Roe vs. Wade.
And yes, Tiller was amongst the most egregious of the lot. Still, when I consider the Christians that were getting hacked in the early church -- I cannot recall any words from Paul or Peter or John encouraging the new Believers to murder the Roman 'dogs' - since they obviously had it coming. I admit, it would have been hard not to -- but their words were pretty much the same: 'I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand ...'. And you are right - we should not be apathetic - but we don't fight sin with another sin.
Judgment is due on our nation - like a ton of bricks. And perhaps the election of ungodly leaders is part of that Judgment...
As to the 'implication that Tiller could be doing God's work'? Oh far from it. Tiller was doing man's work. We are all hopeless sinners - and our depraved minds and nature - before the LORD saves us and indwells the Holy Spirit - is capable of anything (...although I admit - I suspect the evil that Tiller and his ilk do/did would have made Attila the Hun puke).
But that said -- Jesus came for sinners. HE can save the most depraved individual.
Paul thought he was doing God's work by persecuting Christians and having them put to death. He was on his way to continue this evil work - but in an instant Christ changed him. And the Holy Spirit used him to pen 14 mighty epistles in the Bible. A well meaning Chrisitian certainly could have justified killing Paul - for all the mayhem he committed - but God IS in control. We need to wait on the LORD and not fight sin with sin.

This feminization of God’s word, this concept that God want’s us to do nothing but wait, and endure is simply not what I believe. If mankind doesn’t have the duty to protect the weak and the innocent, do you believe prayer alone is your answer? There is no glory in suffering, it’s merely an excuse for the weak who choose to abide by their masters(Whether financial bondage, Job, spouse, etc) and pray for deliverance, that they themselves even confronted with freedom would likely never accept.

I agree we are not to do 'nothing' - but there are bounds. Jesus was 'meek and mild' -- yet HE was the mightiest man on Earth. He backed down from no one. HE didn't engage in violence (knowing that HE could destroy the world in an instant), but HE called out the hypocrisy of the self-righteous, HE called sinners to repentance, and comforted the infirmed and downhearted. But being hated, HE did not hate. HE pitied.
We should call our nation to repent from the vile sin of this baby butchery. We need to elect people who fear God.

We need to defend ourselves, and the defenseless -- but we also need to understand when we take that other life we very well could be dispatching someone to the abyss of eternal hell. As you mentioned earlier - God knows who are HIS, and not a one will fall - but we should engage in these measures as a last recourse. We should always remember we are here for a very short time. Our job is to spread the Word (sow the seed) - and God will bring in the increase. In our walk satan and his demons will try to distract us and torment us - but Christ won that victory on Calvary - and we keep that in mind no matter what gets thrown our way. God Bless.

You speak very wise words and there is in fact solid biblical truth in them. And I can’t find a fault with anything you have said. I certainly don’t support going about sinning on a whim, and well all should flee from sin. But there is in each of us, a degree which we can no longer cope. Whether that is for the slaughter of innocent, or the injustice perpetuated by a government that has forgot it’s people, but rather lives to enslave it’s populace. We are all finite creatures and things will drive us over the edge.
I hope you and everyone here has never had to make that ultimate decision to end another’s life, but some have. Some have looked through a scope or launched or supported fire missions at another and known that in seconds someone would end. Those who make that decision, most don’t revel in joy and accolades but rather carry a heavy burden for the remainder of their life, not knowing if it was just or not. The only way to accept this is to identify that it WAS just, and there are times to act, especially when one is saving the innocent, or defending a way of life.
All christians are devoted to becoming that which we can never truly become, that separation, that divide is large, but we always try to overcome, but we all will fall short. I know I wish some decisions would never have to be made, but that doesn’t change the reality of what is.

I have no doubts that Roeder believed that what he was doing was the last straw, I’m sure he had been engaged with Pro-LIfe for sometime. I honestly feel that he did snap. He could no longer cope with the crimes that are being committed to our young. I can’t fault him for that. I know we all understand that murder is wrong, but so are a multitude of sins, all of them forgivable but one.

I understand that this situation we are in, is again one of the people, the people have turned away from God that is crystal clear. We need to fix the root of the issue to help protect the young, and place biblical morality on the culture again. But I’m pretty certain that reversing this is near impossible with the population demographics the way they are, and certainly our dismal population rate for Christians in this country is simply a drop compared to the Islam etc. There is no going back, all we can do is try to make the best decisions we can with what we have, and to support our cause and be willing to act.

All of this is strictly an opinion, but I very much value yours. I would never advocate doing anything without serious consideration.

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