Posted on 07/01/2009 8:49:55 PM PDT by Steelfish
No one has suggested the Magisterium of the Church has or will fall for the wiles of Satan, or that the Gates of Hell will prevail against the Church. But Satan can and does influence both the world at large and elements of The Church.
Were you under the impression that Vatican II is part of the Magisterium? It was merely a pastoral council without dogmatic force.
It’s all there, in black and white...
I think that what some theologians and directors of religious education did with it WASN'T directed by the Spirit, but by their own hubris. The Church in the US, especially, has been dealing with that for the last 35 years.
Still, we need to avoid taking a minimalist view of the Magisterium. V2 may have been a pastoral rather than a dogmatic council, but that's only because --- as I understand it --- it was not convened to settle an exigent new dispute about dogma, but rather to reiterate timeless doctrines, already solidly part of the Ordinary Magisterium, in a new pastoral setting.
Thus when the Holy Spirit teaches us through the assembled successors of the Apostles, that
“Abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes", or
"Any act of war aimed indiscriminately at the destruction of entire cities or extensive areas along with their population is a crime against God and man himself. It merits unhesitating condemnation," or
“No other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the Liturgy on his own authority”
these are not utterly new ramifications of dogma or discipline; these are inevitable applications of already solid magisterial teachings, e.g.: “The Liturgy belongs to the Church: it is not your personal thang,” or “Thou shalt not commit murder.”
Losing sight of this can initiate an insidious slide, either into the schism of the Right or the antinomianism of the Left.
From Richard Williamson and Joan Chittister, Lord, mercifully save us.
Before she gets feeling too frisky, ask her if she knows that they make bubble wrap in adult sizes........
lol
That’s why I said, though Vatican II may not have been from the “Majesterium”, and didn’t have the weight of infallibility behind it, it was still an important Document and teaching of the Church, from the assembled Bishops, and, as such, would have been directed by the Holy Spirit. It was certainly not from Satan.
My grandmother used to say you should be able to know the woman is a nun whether or not she is wearing a habit.
There, fixed that sentence.
They ARE married, to Our Lord Jesus Christ, why they are called the Bride of Christ, there is a marriage ceremony, they wear a bride's white gown, my aunt (Sisters of Mercy) wore a white gold wedding band.
I hope they will start with the absolute heretical disgrace of these "Nuns for Choice" women.
Suzi: You keep (indirectly, in this case) attributing to me things I did not say.
My suggestion is, as one other commenter was getting at, that Vatican II was a magnet and a facilitator for those who wanted to disrupt the Church and the True Teachings of the Church, and without it those detractions could not have occurred. You know how a pebble makes a disturbance in a pond? It's like Vatican II was a pond surrounded by mounds of pebbles just for the tossing.
Although VII reiterated some true and profound teachings, the inclusion of unnecessarily divisive material, such as increased lay participation in the liturgy and wild ecumenism, means that Satan is indeed pleased with the legacy of Vatican II.
"It was as though the world (or at least the history of the Church) were now to be divided into only two periods, pre-Vatican II and post-Vatican II. Everything 'pre' was then pretty much dismissed, so far as its authority mattered. For the most extreme, to be a Catholic now meant to believe more or less anything one wished to believe, or at least in the sense in which one personally interpreted it." -- Michael Novak
Nice editing!
I suspect there was indeed pre-planned, ‘achieved’ ambiguity in some of the texts, which provided pivot-points for the hidden agenda people. Still, the whole revolution depended, above all, not on the crafty manipulation of texts, but on a decades-long breakdown in discipline.
Equivocal words and phrases in the texts were like graffiti on the support beams of the Church. Lack of oversight, of supervision, of canonical and other consequences, accelerated the long-term foundation rot. And invading agents of the secular culture, high-fiving each other, grinning at their incredible good luck, and in some sectors almost unopposed, supplied the dynamite.
That writing needs to be memorialized in a wiki somewhere.
Having read it, I will forever be looking for graffiti on the rafters of the church. Have to keep the head bowed slightly.
Many have latched onto the Latin Mass as the antidote for all the modernity, but even that isn't the answer. I remember the Latin Mass, and have even sung it a time or two, but the Novus Ordo, when done prayerfully, can be just as satisfying to my soul as any Latin Mass ever was. That's a matter of taste, but ALL Masses, be they Latin, with Gregorian Chant, or Novus Ordo with full organ choir, or even rock music, need to be faithful and true to the teachings of Jesus, and the traditions of the Church. Otherwise, it's all just a show. And until homilies go back to being a teaching tool, most Catholics will remain clueless of their faith, because if they're under the age of 50, they probably didn't learn anything in their CCD classes, or sadly, even at their Catholic Schools, or even worse, what they learned was incorrect.
Perhaps you're more at home at a Rock Music Mass? Or just a plain ecumenical service "true" to the teachings of Jesus?
Praying the Rosary is a wonderful way to put oneself in the Presence of Jesus, and I do it regularly, but it's not more important than listening to the Scriptures at Mass or participating in the Offertory, listening to the prayers of the Consecration, then preparing to receive His Body and Blood in Holy Communion.
As for music during Mass, I usually sing in the choir that uses the organ for our accompaniment, but when our choir isn't singing, sometimes we go to the 'rock music' Mass. Some of that music is kinda silly, what our daughter calls "Jesus is my boyfriend" music, but some can be nice. But if I don't like the music, I concentrate on the important parts of the Mass, and just don't let the rest distract me. Music is supposed to be there to point the way to Jesus, and make the celebration more prayerful, not to showcase the performers, and that can apply to both formal choirs or guitar groups.
Praise be to our Heavenly Father!
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