Posted on 07/10/2009 10:01:00 PM PDT by greatdefender
Several of the students had a knee-jerk reaction when gun-rights advocate Clark Aposhian blasted his first pistol round into a target Thursday. But it was physical, not ideological.
These students from around America were in Salt Lake City to learn and test their beliefs, not to dismiss opposing views.
Roughly 40 Jewish high schoolers traveling the country are hearing from experts on opposing sides of the nation's most politically charged issues. Aposhian was the National Rifle Association's face for the day after the group's stop in Colorado to hear from a gun-control advocate whose child died in the Columbine school shootings.
"You've met the NRA," tour leader Billy Planer told the students after Aposhian finished demonstrating two handguns and an automatic machine gun. "It's not so demonizing."
Guns are not a natural fit for some of the children, most of whom live in Eastern cities and, Planer said, liberal families. But after hearing Aposhian's hourlong defense of gun rights just before the demonstration, some said they appreciate his opinions even if they disagree.
Boston teenager Sarah Cohen acknowledged she's no Second Amendment scholar, but she couldn't understand Aposhian's support for public ownership of machine guns.
"There's a difference between having a gun for self-protection and having a gun for the military," she said.
Josh Braude, a Northbrook, Ill., student, was disturbed by that Utah permitsconcealed weapons.
"That's scary because people might have more of a tendency to fire the gun instead of calming down the argument," he said.
Some of the students agreed with Aposhian's defense of admittedly unnecessary or impractical guns -- essentially "why not?" -- and whooped at the noise on the firing range.
Aposhian, the most active lobbyist for gun-rights issues on Utah's Capitol Hill, addressed the students in a room at the Lee Kay Center for Hunter Education. Throughout his talk, a half dozen hands remained always in the air: Don't guns increase suicide? Aren't machine guns simply killing machines? Doesn't easy gun access increase violent crime?
The answer to all three of those particular questions is "no," in Aposhian's view. Japan has fewer guns but more suicides, he said. Machine guns are designed to make people take cover, and are less effective killers than rifles, he said. And he referred to studies indicating gun access reduces crime.
Many of the students questioned his assertions. Some agreed with him. When someone asked why he should have a machine gun, he asked why he shouldn't. He wants one, he said, and it's no different from someone wanting a faster car than they need.
"It's a bull answer," Newton, Pa., student Seth Novick said later, "but it's still a true answer. You don't need it, but you can have it."
It was the seventh time Aposhian has hosted the group's summer tour, and he said he's trying to dull some of the gun hype that young Americans hear elsewhere.
Planer has guided each of those trips for the Atlanta-based youth education group and said many retain an anti-gun resolve -- and some are frightened to hear gunfire -- but they respect the debate.
"They walk away realizing sometimes the vilified other side isn't the enemy," he said. "It's just somebody who disagrees with them.
“Boston teenager Sarah Cohen acknowledged she’s no Second Amendment scholar, but she couldn’t understand Aposhian’s support for public ownership of machine guns.
“There’s a difference between having a gun for self-protection and having a gun for the military,” she said.
Josh Braude, a Northbrook, Ill., student, was disturbed by that Utah permitsconcealed weapons.
“That’s scary because people might have more of a tendency to fire the gun instead of calming down the argument,” he said.”
Sheep on parade........
>>“That’s scary because people might have more of a tendency to fire the gun instead of calming down the argument,” he said.”
Sheep on parade........<
Calming down the argument? Josh, if u took out the gun, you have your fists, right?
Don’t blame 17 year old Josh, he’s probably been indoctrinated by his socialist teachers and hippie parents.
ping
There is? What is it? Both are for self defense. The military is just self-defense implemented using professional soldiers, and the power of a sovereign nation.
If individuals don't have the right to own and use machine guns, then neither do governments—since any and all authority and power possessed or exercised by any government derives solely from whatever rights or powers are possessed by its citizens. Governments cannot rightfully have any power or authority that a single individual citizen does not also have, since the only possible source for the power or authority of a nation is its own people.
Hmmmm. Jews....guns.....1930s.
Seems to me it ought to be real easy to convince Jews of the value of gun ownership.
As to the picture of the three ladies at an ice cream parlor. That’s one way to make sure the guys who take out you daughter mind their manners!
This is a great idea!
De-mystifying the whole situation is a great step!
This is what we need to do more of!
A valiant effort, but largely a lost cause; no matter how logically and coherently you explain the obvious rationale behind the Second Amendment, even going so far as to illustrate the argument from the point of view of 1930’s Germany, Jews will continue to vote for anti-Second Amendment Democrats with knee-jerk uniformity.
A society without ownership of guns has not the means to protect themselves from the tyranny of government.
That is the only reason our government wants to take our guns from us.
Jews who live in crowded Tel Aviv, Haifa and Jerusalem or any kibbutz or farm near a hostile border are under no such Pollyanna illusions
and certainly those in the Warsaw Ghetto learned the hard way...God bless em
these kids are too clever by half and probably have a Mommy run household
the only way to reach these numbnuts is some real world time
A couple of hours reading about the Warsaw uprising should be all it takes.
You are right. Many of flatlanders who have moved here think that a gun is inherently evil. A trip to the range and they learn that it is just a tool but also a challenging and fun tool.
Seems to me it ought to be real easy to convince Jews of the value of gun ownership.
When it comes to 'never forget', these kids have forgotten.
Like Warsaw. Lexington and Concord & Waco were all about Gun Control.
barbra ann
I grew up in a liberal Jewish household, and am something of the "black sheep" of my family - I like guns and motorcycles. I was actually told by a family member, "Jews don't believe in guns." This was from a highly intelligent person with a graduate degree from a real college. When I confronted her regarding the statement, should couldn't defend it, other than with the belief that bad people use guns, so guns are bad. And having a gun could make a good person do bad things. No logic could get through that crazy core belief.
Mark
Seems to me it ought to be real easy to convince Jews of the value of gun ownership.
Believe it or not, you're very, VERY wrong. I know this for a fact. I've been trying to do it with my own family for more than 35 years now...
Mark
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