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Assaulted by sex-ed
Washington Times ^ | August 10, 2009 | Rebecca Hagelin

Posted on 08/10/2009 9:57:29 AM PDT by rhema

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To: Gabz

The point is that your tax dollars go to fund this agenda, not just through public schools but through various “health” agencies.


51 posted on 08/10/2009 12:14:36 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (There is no truth in the Pravda Media.)
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To: rhema
encourage our children to be sexually active

Yeah, sex ed and basic human biology.
52 posted on 08/10/2009 12:16:23 PM PDT by Mr. Blonde (You ever thought about being weird for a living?)
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To: Gabz

Go to www.positive.org and see where the tentacles lead you to.

A just say yes campaign is not “crap” and paranoia.


53 posted on 08/10/2009 12:17:55 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (There is no truth in the Pravda Media.)
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To: a fool in paradise

The goal is the end of bourgeois society.


54 posted on 08/10/2009 12:22:01 PM PDT by ichabod1 (I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet (GOP Poet))
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To: rhema; metmom

K-12 homeschool graduate here, just graduated college this year and I’m going to law school next year. I don’t think I actually learned about the facts of life until I was 10 or 12. My latest article will be the cover story of a well-known magazine read by millions.

I think I’m doing all right.


55 posted on 08/10/2009 12:25:23 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (My country, right or wrong. But BOY...!)
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To: DaveLoneRanger; rhema; metmom
I don’t think I actually learned about the facts of life until I was 10 or 12.

I'll be 49 next month and am still waiting for my mother to tell me the facts of life --- and she's been dead 3 years.

My daughter turned 11 last month and is far more knowledgeable about the facts of life than I ever was. Of course we live in farm country.........

BTW, congrats on going to law school. Even though my yung'un is doing the evil public school thing, she'll be following you soon enough.

56 posted on 08/10/2009 12:36:27 PM PDT by Gabz
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To: DieHard the Hunter
You very accurately define the real problem here with your no, “homeschooling” is not the answer response. The reason is that while homeschooled kids get a moral education as part of their schooling, the vast majority of kids are fed absolute garbage and are brainwashed with the brilliance of "progressivism," not only with sex-ed, but with the whole-person progressive concepts led by John Dewey:
I believe that education is the fundamental method of social progress and reform.

John Dewey, My Pedagogic Creed, Article V


57 posted on 08/10/2009 12:36:27 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: SoftballMominVA; Gabz

In the interest of full disclosure, my brother’s program, while administered by the school district, is at a private school.

However, I don’t think it’s valid to say that I don’t have a valid opinion since I haven’t experienced the school system directly. That’s an argument that some people like to bring out to shut down opposition to whatever they are saying - “You weren’t in the military? You can’t comment.” or “You haven’t had an abortion? Don’t talk about them.” It is valid for me to say “the school district I grew up in was a ‘good’ district and yet had X, Y, and Z problems” because both those facts were well known in my community. I personally worked with the father of a student suspended from the school because a pipe bomb was found in his locker. I went to Sunday School with students who literally could not read and yet had high enough GPAs to keep them on their sports teams.


58 posted on 08/10/2009 12:41:03 PM PDT by JenB
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To: netmilsmom

I didn’t think anybody in Detroit even knew how to read.


59 posted on 08/10/2009 12:44:34 PM PDT by ichabod1 (I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet (GOP Poet))
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To: JenB; SoftballMominVA

OK, I stand corrected and apologize to Jen for my comment.

I also realize that Jen is not one of the ones that constantly trashing those of us involved in the public school systems, although she is supportive of those that do.


60 posted on 08/10/2009 12:48:29 PM PDT by Gabz
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To: a fool in paradise

“The goal isn’t to see unwanted pregnancies a thing of the past. It is to see everyone sexually active at every age and an end to all moral judgements over all sexual pairings regardless of sex, age, relation, marital status, number, or species of partner(s).”

Bingo. Preparing to plagiarize that.


61 posted on 08/10/2009 12:54:59 PM PDT by dsc (The "t" in the word "often" is silent.)
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To: markomalley

Well said, Mark!


62 posted on 08/10/2009 12:56:27 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: Gabz

And that’s the whole thing in a nutshell.

I have friends that are sending their daughter to Public High School this year. They are driving her to the district that the mom grew up in. About an hour north. It’s country up there and the poo that hits in our district does not flow in those schools. Like for sure, because she has friends who’s children go there. They are great kids!

It takes much more work to be a PS mom than a homeschooling mom. I know what my girls are getting. PS moms have to be involved in all aspects. You know Gabz, you do it.

And people think I have it tough!


63 posted on 08/10/2009 12:58:55 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: ichabod1

Detroiters are educated to be line workers and pole dancers.

That’s why we homeschool.


64 posted on 08/10/2009 1:03:42 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: Gabz
It is impossible for any sentient person to be religion-free. It is also impossible for any school to be religion free. Why? Reason: It is impossible to have a philosophic vacuum. Religion, being impossible to prove scientifically, is entirely based upon belief. Only three states exist: God exists, God does not exist, or one is not sure. Each philosophic state is a religious belief since none can be proven to be true or false.

Therefore:

ALL government schools in this nation are by law **godless** in their philosophic worldview. All subject matter is taught as though god does not exist. This has profoundly non-neutral religious consequences for the students and for the parents who must deal with these consequences when the children come home from school.

So....Yes, I am very much against government schooling because it is **impossible** for government schools to be religiously, politically, or culturally neutral. The government **forces** the taxpayer to pay for a religious worldview that is abhorrent to many. For those who can not afford the extra cost of private or home schooling, the government forces attendance in it religiously non-neutral and atheistic institutions. However... if the government were to sponsor schools with a God-centered worldview, that, as well, would be abhorrent to many and have just as many non-neutral religious consequences.

Yes, I strongly object to government K-12 schools because they are a First Amendment and freedom of conscience abomination!

Also...I am not convinced that very much learning happens in a typical institutional school. When I ask people who have academically successful children what their home lives are like, these parents and children are doing **everything** I did, and my children did, as homeschoolers. I conclude that most of what a child learns happens in the home through the efforts of his parents and the child himself. I conclude that the only thing the typical institutional school does is send home a curriculum for the parents and child to follow.

65 posted on 08/10/2009 1:32:54 PM PDT by wintertime (People are not stupid! Good ideas win!)
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To: Gabz
It is impossible for any sentient person to be religion-free. It is also impossible for any school to be religion free. Why? Reason: It is impossible to have a philosophic vacuum. Religion, being impossible to prove scientifically, is entirely based upon belief. Only three states exist: God exists, God does not exist, or one is not sure. Each philosophic state is a religious belief since none can be proven to be true or false.

Therefore:

ALL government schools in this nation are by law **godless** in their philosophic worldview. All subject matter is taught as though god does not exist. This has profoundly non-neutral religious consequences for the students and for the parents who must deal with these consequences when the children come home from school.

So....Yes, I am very much against government schooling because it is **impossible** for government schools to be religiously, politically, or culturally neutral. The government **forces** the taxpayer to pay for a religious worldview that is abhorrent to many. For those who can not afford the extra cost of private or home schooling, the government forces attendance in it religiously non-neutral and atheistic institutions. However... if the government were to sponsor schools with a God-centered worldview, that, as well, would be abhorrent to many and have just as many non-neutral religious consequences.

Yes, I strongly object to government K-12 schools because they are a First Amendment and freedom of conscience abomination!

Also...I am not convinced that very much learning happens in a typical institutional school. When I ask people who have academically successful children what their home lives are like, these parents and children are doing **everything** I did, and my children did, as homeschoolers. I conclude that most of what a child learns happens in the home through the efforts of his parents and the child himself. I conclude that the only thing the typical institutional school does is send home a curriculum for the parents and child to follow.

66 posted on 08/10/2009 1:34:05 PM PDT by wintertime (People are not stupid! Good ideas win!)
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To: netmilsmom; Gabz
I think alot of the ‘work’ of being a public school parent is front-end loaded. As my girls went through school, I became less and less involved in administering homework, checking on friends, checking on teachers, etc. Most of the work I did with them involved church activities and making sure they were firmly grounded in their religion knowing that I couldn't be there with them every moment of every day.

The result? By the time they got to high school I barely glanced at anything school related, but they would share with me what they saw happening, and would share how they stood up for what they believed. Now that they are at college, there is nothing I can do, other than listen. But the same things that happened in high school now happen on a bigger scale - professors that mock the Bible, professors that mock creationism, professors that push books that are of questionable literary value, but are more titillating. Because they had a small taste of how to stand up to this type of bullying in high school and knew that their parents had their backs when they were called on to defend their beliefs, they are very comfortable now getting right back in a professors face when something they love is attacked.

But that's my experience, your mileage may vary. But they will tell you it was their rooting in their church that they call upon when times get hard and the practice they had defending their Christianity when they were 12, 16, and 18 that makes them strong now.

67 posted on 08/10/2009 1:37:45 PM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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To: netmilsmom

Thanks, my FRiend.

But I disagree. I applaud my homeschooling friends. I truly do, because I couldn’t do what you do, which is why I don’t. I know my limitations.


68 posted on 08/10/2009 1:41:23 PM PDT by Gabz
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To: netmilsmom

If I lived in Detroit, I would either homeschool or private school. My kids would never step through the door of a school I felt was dangerous


69 posted on 08/10/2009 1:47:03 PM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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To: wintertime

I really don’t give a flying flip what you conclude. I disagree with you.

You have an opinion, something we all have, and you choose to utilize your opinion to attack others who disagree with you. You are no better than those attacking people who are questioning their congresscritters.

When you start answering direct questions posed to you, your opinion will be considered. Until such time, you will remain in the ranks of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.


70 posted on 08/10/2009 1:50:22 PM PDT by Gabz
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To: Gabz
Your statement:the haters of public schools on this forum believe there is no such thing as a good public school system and those of us with children in them or who teach in them are nothing less than child abusers. That is what I meant by not true at all. Us haters of public schools realize that there are indeed pockets of good public schools, but they are the exception rather than the norm.
71 posted on 08/10/2009 1:53:04 PM PDT by Robert DeLong (u)
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To: Robert DeLong
I think it's pretty hard to judge what is a ‘good’ school and/or a ‘bad’ school unless you've experienced it.

But getting back to the premise of the article, I think it's pretty good information and a reminder to parents who aren't as sharp as many here to just LOOK at the information that is readily available.

Example — in the middle school in which I teach, the FLE materials, every lesson plan, every homework assignment, every topic for class discussion all organized by days, is available for parents to review for 8 weeks before FLE is taught. It is out during school hours, during parent teacher conferences and if the parent can't make one of those times, the principal will stay late if the parent needs to by in the evening or on weekends. There is a reminder in the weekly newsletter and on the school website. Parents can come in with a school provided form and actually check off the days they don't want their kids to be in FLE. Simple as that - preview, check off the days, and voila! It happens the way the parents want it to.

Guess how many parents come in each year? About 5 - out of 700 kids.

So when this type of arrangements are made, whose fault is it if the kid is taught something the parent doesn't want taught?

72 posted on 08/10/2009 2:00:10 PM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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To: netmilsmom; SoftballMominVA
It takes much more work to be a PS mom than a homeschooling mom.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
netmilsmon,

I agree. It is harder to institutionalize a child than to homeschool. Having had my children in government school and in homeschool, this was my experience.

I find the actual home study habits of academically successful institutionalized children and successful homeschoolers to be nearly identical. There is little difference between the two as to what is actually happening **academically** in the home. There are differences, though. Whereas the parent of an institutionalized child must “reprogram” as necessary,( and be vigilant about course material, friends, teachers, and other school employees) the homeschooling parent has far fewer of these worries and concerns. With regard to these issues, it is actually more work to institutionalize a child than to homeschool.

Also...Homeschooling is far more efficient, so the homeschooling child as more time for independent creativity, development of talents, and for unstructured large-muscle play.

As Softballmom pointed out much of the work is “front loaded”. As the children mature both the academically successful institutionalized child and the homeschool child become independent of the parent.

By the way, I like that expression “front loaded”. It is like a rocket on a lauching pad. A tremendous amount of energy is expended with lots of smoke and flames. The rocket seems to sit on the pad doing nothing, and then, suddenly, seems to take off on its own. Unfortunately, the parent of the institutionalized child is constantly busy with trajectory corrections. The homeschooling parent can get their child aimed properly from the beginning.

By the way, Softballmom, the above is respectful, and in the past administrators have stated that on a public forum all posters should expect **respectful** posts from all participants.

73 posted on 08/10/2009 2:02:46 PM PDT by wintertime (People are not stupid! Good ideas win!)
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To: Gabz

You have an opinion, something we all have, and you choose to utilize your opinion to attack others who disagree with you.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Please provide an example of how I may have “attacked” you.


74 posted on 08/10/2009 2:04:42 PM PDT by wintertime (People are not stupid! Good ideas win!)
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To: Gabz

“Yes, it is biased crap in the sense that the haters of public schools at FR will claim this is the norm at ALL public schools.”

This story was not biased and your statement was out of line and shows your bias.

The public school system is broken. yes there are parts of it that still work but the system is controlled by the NEA. The NEA has an obvious agenda and is working towards that with great success.

Your attacks are either out of ignorance, or more likely personal fear for the impact homeschooling is having upon the public schools. As a group homeschoolers show just how broken the public school system is.

We can throw money at public schools all day long and it wont fix the problems. The problem is the NEA and the focus on indoctrination instead of teaching.


75 posted on 08/10/2009 2:05:32 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

I thought the article was terribly biased against public schools. The author takes the experiences that of one district and extrapolates it to the whole.

Just because kindergartners are taught about intercourse in one district in NY or in CA (and who knows what goes in San Francisco) doesn’t mean it happens in every public school in the country.

There is value in the article in that it reminds parents to review materials and make sure they are in line with the student’s personal beliefs - but largely it is nothing more than a scare tactic.


76 posted on 08/10/2009 2:13:17 PM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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To: Robert DeLong

You may be the exception to the rule of the PS haters, but all I ever hear from them is how I am a child abusers.

PS haters are in the same category to me as people who hate smokers, drinkers, and gun owners.


77 posted on 08/10/2009 2:16:51 PM PDT by Gabz
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To: driftdiver; Gabz

....not to mention, did anyone catch the real purpose of the article? To sell a book that you can use to check the curriculum!

When there is a direct financial incentive, the bias is a bit more obvious


78 posted on 08/10/2009 2:28:38 PM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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To: rhema
It'd be interesting to compare the predictions and opinions of both the pro- and anti-sex ed advocates over the years, and match them up with the actual illegitimacy rate, the STD rate and the abortion rate.

At times I doubt whether a few hours of classroom instruction every few years can have much effect one way or another, especially compared to the influence of music, internet and TV. But I also suspect co-ed sex ed helped destroy the natural modesty and embarrassment young adults should feel before members of the opposite sex.

I also suspect the whole abstinence ed thing is just another way for "conservatives" to get on the gravy train of curriculum writing and think-tank funding. Something like 25 percent of Americans don't think sex ed should be in schools at all, it'd be nice to see their opinions prominently considered sometime.

79 posted on 08/10/2009 4:11:49 PM PDT by Dumb_Ox (http://kevinjjones.blogspot.com)
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To: SoftballMominVA

The biggest surprise I had when we started homeschooling was the number of ex-teachers that home school their kids.

You can really never make generalizations, however the public school system is broke. As a whole the standards are the decline as are the graduation rates. Sure there are examples of good schools but the NEA will probably fix those soon.

Note I didn’t say the teachers are the problem, by and large they are not. Its the bureaucracy and the union that is the problem.


80 posted on 08/10/2009 4:23:41 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Dumb_Ox

“It’d be interesting to compare the predictions and opinions of both the pro- and anti-sex ed advocates over the years,”

The predictions of the people who don’t think the state should be teaching our kids to have sex have largely come true. High pregnancy rates, higher STD rates, more abortions, less personal responsibility.

“I also suspect the whole abstinence ed thing is just another way for “conservatives” to get on the gravy train of curriculum writing and think-tank funding”

OR it could be them trying to save the kids from a lot of pain caused by promiscuity.

“Something like 25 percent of Americans don’t think sex ed should be in schools at all”

Sure, but its there. That argument is over, the action that needs to happen is to roll back the tide.


81 posted on 08/10/2009 4:27:45 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: bigbob

“Speaking of “Ewww”, a friend said the other day after her 10 year old leaned how babies are actually born, she swears she will only adopt ;-)”

It must be a 10 yr old thing..because mine said the exact same thing when she found out.


82 posted on 08/10/2009 4:42:38 PM PDT by Awestruck (Now if we can only get the rest of the "republican" leaders to stand up to the liberals.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
I have made a memo to myself to raise the question during the upcoming Parent/Teacher Interviews.

As if they would tell you. Teachers have been re-educated with this cr@p themselves. I have personal experience as a Christian and ex-teacher.

83 posted on 08/10/2009 4:45:04 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
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To: Gabz
The teacher for it here is the head nurse, a member of our church, and a friend of mine :)

Pedophiles and perverts have lots of friends, of course the friends usually don't know that about them, because they are so friendly, and loving and kind.

84 posted on 08/10/2009 4:48:09 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
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To: Gabz

It’s nice that you have such nice public schools where you are.. but everyone isn’t so fortunate.. I had to pull my eldest out of public school because they told me, to my face, that it didn’t matter that she couldn’t write legibly or do math, she could always “use a keyboard, and a calculator”, but that it was absolutely necessary that she take co-ed P.E. or she would flunk out. My youngest goes to private school even though its painful financially. The public schools here in Fresno are awful.. this article is NOT “biased crap” ..its straight on the mark for most school districts. You live in some sort of fairy world, where everything is happy and nice. The real world is uglier than you know.


85 posted on 08/10/2009 4:49:08 PM PDT by Awestruck (Now if we can only get the rest of the "republican" leaders to stand up to the liberals.)
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To: cycjec
I rather doubt childbirth is much of a topic in "sex education."

No childbirth isn't a major topic, but abortion without parental knowledge is a pretty big item, totally secret.

86 posted on 08/10/2009 4:50:01 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
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To: itsahoot

Your comments are disgusting.


87 posted on 08/10/2009 4:52:53 PM PDT by Gabz
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To: Awestruck

I don’t live in any kind of a fairy world, I just happen to live in an area where the parents actually are parents and understand what being a parent means.

I’m actually thankful for the few private schools in this area, they tend to attract the bad kids whose parents would rather pay the tuition than the bail or actually be parents.

Typical of those who hate the PS system, you resort to personal attacks rather than any attempt at legitimate discourse.


88 posted on 08/10/2009 4:59:49 PM PDT by Gabz
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To: a fool in paradise
As sex moved “beyond” being just between a man and a woman, a husband and wife,

Gotta accomadate all Six Genders Ya Know!! ;-)

89 posted on 08/10/2009 5:21:17 PM PDT by HP8753 (Live Free!!!! .............or don't.)
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To: Gabz

Maybe so, but nevertheless true. Of course I live in an area that delights in them.


90 posted on 08/10/2009 6:05:52 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
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To: itsahoot; Gabz
Pedophiles and perverts have lots of friends, of course the friends usually don't know that about them, because they are so friendly, and loving and kind.

Woah.....what are you implying? That the head nurse of Gabz' school is a pedophile and/or a pervert? That's wrong at so many levels

91 posted on 08/10/2009 6:24:16 PM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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To: SoftballMominVA
Woah.....what are you implying? That the head nurse of Gabz' school is a pedophile and/or a pervert?

Not implying anything, just stating a fact. Perverts and pedophiles have become ensconced in public education, whether you want to believe it, or not.

92 posted on 08/10/2009 7:02:22 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
sue the school out of existence, with the school board as a co-defendent. It would only need one or two schools to be sued for the insurers to step in and put a stop to this “sex education” once and for all.

You would think so, right? But, it doesn't work that way. Instead, parents are penalized for complaining. These types of lessons fall under the headings of "tolerance" and "diversity". Parents even have gone to court for the right to opt their children out of certain lessons/teachings, and the court ruled against the parents. The courts have ruled that, as long as your child is enrolled in public school, the school can dictate what your child learns.

That's why education outside the public school system (whether homeschool, private school, etc.) is the only way to fight it.

93 posted on 08/10/2009 9:38:17 PM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: rhema
Obama supported a bill in Illinois that would require teaching kindergartners sex ed and said it was the right thing to do.

It's only going to get worse people.

94 posted on 08/10/2009 9:44:54 PM PDT by FTJM
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To: Gabz

I gave you legitimate discourse..and you ignored it. Why are you so enamoured of public schools? They actually shouldn’t even exist..the government has no more right to be involved in education than anything else they’ve screwed up royally. Why would you want your tax dollars going to people who support homosexual indoctrination and abortion on demand, because that’s exactly what the teachers unions are pushing. Just because you got lucky doesn’t mean the majority of school districts are any good.. Any school district run by the teachers unions are in danger of being ruined by their politics. I think you have your head in the sand.


95 posted on 08/11/2009 1:40:41 AM PDT by Awestruck (Now if we can only get the rest of the "republican" leaders to stand up to the liberals.)
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To: Gabz

and just for the record... you’re completely off base when it comes to private schools. They don’t attract “bad kids”, because you have to maintain a higher standard of behavior and grades to attend most private schools. And most private school parents I know, myself included, send their children there to get a much better education than they’d ever hope for in a government run mill. The parents are also expected to be involved with the school for a certain number of hours per school month. So I don’t know what your problem is with private schools, but you make absolutely no sense.


96 posted on 08/11/2009 1:45:42 AM PDT by Awestruck (Now if we can only get the rest of the "republican" leaders to stand up to the liberals.)
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To: Gabz

How about people who hate communists, nazi’s, Marxists, dictators, perfverts etc.? That would be more applicable as this is what us “haters” view too many of our public schools producing.


97 posted on 08/11/2009 5:53:02 AM PDT by Robert DeLong (u)
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To: Gabz
I’m actually thankful for the few private schools in this area, they tend to attract the bad kids whose parents would rather pay the tuition than the bail or actually be parents.

Gabz, i think you need to take a break from the education threads. You are embracing the very tactics that you despise in others. Denigrating private schools as magnets for BAD KIDS with lazy parents? Tearing down something else in order to prop up/defend one's own choice is never a good debating tactic.

98 posted on 08/11/2009 6:02:59 AM PDT by xsmommy
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