Posted on 08/27/2009 10:22:18 PM PDT by STARWISE
Cardinal O'Malley: 617 782-2544
Cardinal O'Malley's email address:
sdiago@rcab.org
Office of the Archdiocese: 617 254-0100
Fax: 617 746-5762
Pastor of the Basilica
Rev. Ray Collins 617 445-2600
Fax: 617 445-1857
Thank you.
It is scandalous that Kennedy is being given a funeral Mass. However, there is some leeway in canon law about this. In other words, it is possible to interpret canon law in 2 very different ways and everything hinges on the way “public sinner” is defined.
However, being given a funeral Mass is not the same thing as having died in a state of grace and that is something that only God and, presumably, a few of Kennedy’s family would know.
My own view is this. I will pray for the souls in purgatory. If Kennedy happens to be in purgatory, fine, then he is included in that general intercession. But I refuse to pray for him personally or individually. A pro-abortion, nominally Catholic politician, who never let the teachings of the Church or the opinion of faithful Catholics affect his political decisions, hardly deserves our prayers now. If he’s in purgatory, he’ll understand. If he’s not, then he’s beyond all help anyway.
Fearing men, the RC church has rushed to the side of the Kennedys in the death of Edward. Political correctness is abroad in the land. Truth is put aside in death and politics rides the earth once more. I don’t Edward’s fate. Will Mary Jo be there when his judgement is rendered? Or will the 1 to 2 million southeast asians he killed by cutting off ammunition to the South Vietnamese Army be there to testify at the judgement? Who knows for sure, “judgement is mine sayeth the Lord”. It is his. I hope my imperfections do not rise to the level of the death of so many.
Searaching for understanding
~~~~~~~~~
Funeral Masses
And More on the Eastern Rites
ROME, AUG. 18, 2009 (Zenit.org).- Answered by Legionary of Christ Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum university.
Q: Who can be buried by the Church, and who can a burial Mass be said for?
If a faithful of the Catholic Church is not baptized before he dies, but had the desire to be baptized, can a burial Mass be celebrated for him?
If a Catholic was baptized, received first Communion and was confirmed, but failed to have his marriage blessed before he dies, can Mass be celebrated for him also?
What about a Church member who contributed financially over the years to the Church and has held positions in the Church, but after his death there was a doubt of whether he had been baptized?
Can he be given a Church burial, or can Mass be celebrated for him? — D.A., Accra, Ghana
A: The Church is usually generous toward the deceased, within limits.
First, we must distinguish between offering a funeral Mass and celebrating a Mass whose intention is the eternal repose of a particular soul.
Since the latter is basically the private intention of the priest, albeit offered at the request of a particular person, and since there are practically no limitations as to whom we may pray for, almost any intention can be admitted. In cases that might cause scandal, especially if the person were denied a funeral Mass, it would not be prudent to make this intention public.
A funeral Mass on the other hand is basically a public act in which the Church intercedes for the deceased by name. A funeral Mass is one which uses the formulas found in the Roman Missal and the ritual for funerals. Some of these formulas may be used even if the deceased’s body is not present.
Because of its public nature the Church’s public intercession for a departed soul is more limited. A funeral Mass can be celebrated for most Catholics, but there are some specific cases in which canon law requires the denial of a funeral Mass. Canons 1184-1185 say:
“Canon 1184 §1. Unless they gave some signs of repentance before death, the following must be deprived of ecclesiastical funerals:
1/ notorious apostates, heretics, and schismatics;
2/ those who chose the cremation of their bodies for reasons contrary to Christian faith;
3/ other manifest sinners who cannot be granted ecclesiastical funerals without public scandal of the faithful.
Ҥ2. If any doubt occurs, the local ordinary is to be consulted, and his judgment must be followed.
“Canon 1185. Any funeral Mass must also be denied a person who is excluded from ecclesiastical funerals.”
In fact, these strictures are rarely applied. In part, this is because many sinners do show signs of repentance before death.
Likewise, the canons are open to some interpretation.
In No. 1184 §1 notorious would mean publicly known.
Therefore someone who had abandoned the faith and joined some other group would be denied a funeral; someone who harbored private doubts or disagreements would not.
Cases of those who choose cremation for reasons contrary to the faith are extremely rare and are hard to prove (see the follow-up in our column of Nov. 29, 2005).
The most delicate cases are those in No. 1184 §1.3.
Many canonists say that for denial of a funeral the person must be both widely known to be living in a state of grave sin and that holding a Church funeral would cause scandal.
About a year ago in Italy the Church denied an ecclesiastical funeral for a nationally known campaigner for euthanasia who requested and obtained the removal of his life-support system.
In this case the request for a funeral for someone who was only nominally Catholic was in itself a publicity stunt for the organization behind the campaign. Likewise, someone subject to excommunication or interdict (for example, a Catholic abortionist) would be denied a funeral.
Given the severity of the requirements for denial of an ecclesiastical funeral, people in irregular marriages and suicides should not usually be denied a funeral.
In such cases denial of the funeral is more likely than not to be counterproductive and cause unnecessary misunderstanding and bitterness.
The Church intercedes for the soul and leaves final judgment to God.
Analogous to the funeral Mass are anniversary Masses which are somewhat in between an intention and a funeral Mass.
Although, strictly speaking, these would not fall under the prohibitions mentioned in Canon 1184, such Masses should not be given publicity if the person had been denied a funeral.
With respect to non-Catholic Christians the local bishop may permit a funeral in some cases as specified in the Ecumenical Directory 120:
“In the prudent judgment of the local Ordinary, the funeral rites of the Catholic Church may be granted to members of a non-Catholic Church or ecclesial Community, unless it is evidently contrary to their will and provided that their own minister is unavailable, and that the general provisions of Canon Law do not forbid it (see Can. 1183,3).”
Regarding the first and third cases presented by our reader, we can also refer to Canon 1183:
“Canon 1183 §1. When it concerns funerals, catechumens must be counted among the Christian faithful.
“§2. The local ordinary can permit children whom the parents intended to baptize but who died before baptism to be given ecclesiastical funerals.”
This would apply both to the person who had intended to receive baptism but was prevented by death as well as to the person whose baptism was uncertain but was active in the Church.
In the first case the funeral liturgy may be celebrated as usual, only omitting language referring directly to the sacrament.
The same would apply to the second case, but omission of mentioning the sacrament should be done only if the fact that the person had never been baptized could be established with some degree of certainty.
The foundation for this is the doctrine of baptism of desire in which the Church believes that a soul who explicitly desired the sacrament will receive all the graces of baptism at the moment of death, except for the sacramental character. This last is not given because it is directly orientated toward the exercise of worship during the course of life.
Finally, Catholic funerals are not celebrated for non-Christians.
http://www.zenit.org/rssenglish-26626
We may strongly (sorrowfully, bitterly) suspect that there were elements of self-deception and hypocrisy involved -- after all, the dying Ted Kennedy evidently found the vigor to lobby that the Massachusetts law be changed so Gov. Deval Patrick could appoint a successor, but somehow omitted to make any statement of repentance for his lifelong advocacy of child-killing. But Canon Lawyers would arguably be obliged to assume good faith when prayers are asked.
Lord have mercy.
Thank you.
Amen.
I would never defend TK or anyone like him. It disgusts me that TK and actually every Kennedy I know about, including JFK, is admired by anyone. Don’t even get me started on Pelosi and countless other politicians who do everything in their power to ruin this Country and still claim to be Catholics. Hell, these people claim to be Americans and Patriots but I have yet to see it. But, to blame their actions on the Catholic Church or the Catholic faith?
Thank you for asking as I do appreciate it. I didn’t defend TK. I’m sorry if any of my posts came off that way.
As for you or anyone else that I don’t know thinking that anything I posted concerning this topic warrants a “shame on you” well there’s nothing I can do about that. I’m not ashamed of any posts I made on this topic. I may be after reading back/reading again but for now, nope I’m not ashamed.
I think what bothers me, or maybe rather disheartens me so much, is that we all have so much in common. Maybe not all, as I studied Islam from a historical and political (as well as religious aspect) and I still can’t find common ground there.
True. Devout Catholics/Christians (because I know some don’t consider Catholics Christians) and other devout Christians (and not those self righteous whack jobs) have to remain clear headed. It’s difficult sometimes. And I’m not the poster child for Catholicism or any form of Christianity. I hate to see such petty (imo) divisions within a conservative and Christian community. There’s a much bigger fight, imo. Disagreements, preferable civil disagreements, fine, but outright hatred and misinformation just confounds me.
Oh well, I’m listening to some great music and just opened a cold beer. Looking forward to college football season (WE ARE PENN STATE) and of course college volleyball season as the oldest (eldest for those stuck on archaic usage) is now playing college ball and survived a week of pure hell/pain getting ready for the season. And of course high school volleyball season and Catholic k-8 volleyball season and Rec Soccer season...ok, not really but I’m sucking it up ;)
I hope that you are listening to 80’s music and drinking Yuengliing.
I think that there are a lot of various Christian denominations that are coming together. For the most part many of us know that we are surrounded by “the culture”, regardless of our doctrinal differences.
I use the term Catholic Christian among Evangelicals. Catholic already implies that we are Christians, some like to separate us by using the term Catholic or RC, while some just use it without really having any kind of agenda. So, it's hard to make a distinction, therefore I really don't respond unless I know that there is an agenda, even if there is I still do not respond.
There are also conservative, traditional and orthodox Catholics who separate themselves from other Catholics; some of them are simply observing doctrine and I think some of them are simply being snooty.
Have you ever had the folks who will not shake hands during the “Sign of Peace”? Often times these folks are more traditional, they are observing the doctrine as they interpret them. Also, technically, we are not supposed to hold hands during the Our Father. I do not like to, but my kids do and it seems silly not to do it when most members do it out of habit.
Most Christians of “good faith” are pretty tolerant. You will see some of these folks who flame Catholicism in these threads and I would venture to say that most of these individuals have their own agendas; some are bigots and I would bet that many of them are apostate Catholics, who have a knee jerk reaction to the faith.
I honestly don't have time for such people. I love talking religion and Christ with anyone, but not if they have some kind of hidden agenda and a burning desire to either be RIGHT or to prove that Catholics are wrong. Christ is NOT present in such exchanges.
I value the insights of my friends in different denominations. Sometime they come to Jesus from an angle that I would have never understood, but the observation is true and refreshing for me.
They also use a different vernacular, often times this reflects a “personal” relationship with Our Lord, which I was not really taught in our Church.
I was driving with one of my best friends and we were listening to a Christian music station and the song was about going to meet Jesus in the hereafter, and he has this big smile on his face and he asks me, “What do you think it will be like when you meet him?”
At first, I really didn't understand that he was even referring to Him? Then, I was like,...oh, I ain't all ready for any of that yet? I don't know that I have quite got my ticket punched yet.
Have any of us?
It’s always wonderful and encouraging to go to the prayer threads at FR.
No one asks denomination or affiliation, when they are asking for prayers for someone they love.
I agree 9/11 cemented a relationship hard to understand in some ways between the Kennedy’s and Bush’s. I think that GWB was relieved that his wife had someone with her such as him despite what we may think about him and his morals/politics .
I know you weren’t defending Kennedy. But if I read your post correctly, you were casting the Catholic Church as the “bastards”. Is this correct?
Your civility in discussion is appreciated. There are those that can’t engage in discussion. They must resort to nastiness. Thankfully you are more mature than that.
Wake up American Catholics!!!!! Your Church - Bishops and intellectuals - in America is doing here what it has been doing elsewhere for decades - siding with and promoting socialists and socialism.
I don’t think that’s correct. It wasn’t my intention.
But you said in another post that you maybe thought I was defending Kennedy and now that I’m casting the Catholic Church as ‘bastards?” Neither is what I was intending nor trying to do. So I’m a little confused by this exchange.
I don’t like what transpired during Kennedy’s funeral. I didn’t watch any of it (I was sure I couldn’t stomach it) so just going by what I’ve read. It upsets me that his funeral Mass was conducted this way. That it was permitted to be conducted this way, but being practical I know it happens.
There’s a disconnect between Rome (The Catholic Church) and the American Catholic Church. I’ve seen it for at least 30 years or so and I’m sure it’s been going on longer than that. There’s not much I can do there so I focus on my own parish. My parish is where I can make changes or at least help make changes.
bookmark.
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