Risks of the Swine Flu Vaccine (Experimental adjuvant squalene implicated in autoimmune disorders)

http://www.thenewamerican.com ^ | Thursday, 03 September 2009 | Alex Newman

[AFPhys]

Well, If I have to have an adjuvant, give me ethylene glycol. All I have to do to keep that from hurting me is to stay drunk for a day or so. The others I have no idea what’ll cure me.

[CottShop]

From what I understand, the risk of getting Guilliane Barre (sp?) is reduced after getting hte swine flu shot- not increased- someone put hte stats up on another thread, and it appeared that we would actually have less of a chance of getting Barre than if we did nothing

[CottShop]

[[This thing is being rushed way too quickly and there is no real justification for it. It reminds me of episodes from the Xfiles. Why the rush?]]

Because it’s estimated that 60,000 more people in the US alone could die from htis flu than regular flu, and the numbers being affected aroudn the world are staggaring- this is a serious flu, and will really start to take off i nthe next couple of weeks, months as kids get back to school

[Maelstorm]

I’m not sure about the science behind this. I’ve been looking through the journals and I’m not sure squalene is the culprit but calcium phosphate which is used by Novartis as an adjuvant has been shown to illicit immune responses in tests up to 4 weeks after injection. We have calcium phosphate in our bodies, it is a component of arthritic fluid. The problem is that there is a lot we do not know. A few years back there was a contaminated batch of L-Tryptophan, normally a harmless amino acid led to severe and chronic autoimmune diseases in a number of people. These flu vaccines are marginal at best and I’m concerned especially with the break neck speed this is being put together with China churning out vaccine for the world that we can be certain that short cuts are being taken and for what? There is no evidence suggesting this flu is going to be a “killer flu”. Any doubts about that should have been resolved earlier in the year when the fears and hype turned out to be not true and many of the early reported cases of swine flu deaths turned out not even to be related to the flu.

[CottShop]

For htose saying htey ‘got sick after gettign hte flu shot’- the flu shots do NOT prevent hte flu- they lessen the effects of the flu- you can still get sick fro mthe flu, but mostly it will be ‘mild’ even if you still feel quite ill- you may very well have been much much sicker had you not had hte flu shot-

Now, some people CAN have a reactio nto hte flu shot itself- and for htose people, it’s not advisable to take hte flu shot- but hte overwhelming majority of people have no symptoms from the shots, and the actual flu doesn’t present a problem when they contract it.

Noone is saying you didn’t get sick, but keep an open mind as to why you got sick- was it an actual reaction to hte flu shot? or did you end up getting hte flu, and hte shot didn’t really help? Or did it actually help, but you still got somewhat sick? Again- the flu shot doesn’t prevent hte flu- and people’s reaction to hte flu after gettign hte shot will vary in severity, some barely noticing it, some getting pretty sick despite gettign hte shot, but again, these folks may have been much much sicker had they not got hte shot.

I spose there’s a minority of peopel who are blessed with good immune systems who rarely do get hte lfu every year, but who, after gettign the shoit, do infact get the flu pretty bad- but for htose people to suggest that peopel refrain from takign the shot because they personally got sick after the shot, is to ignore the stats that do infact prove the flu shots, on whoile, help millions of people avoid gettign hte full-blown flu and riskign death- 30,000 people a year die from the regular flu, and htis number would probably be much much hihger IF we all abstained fro mgettign hte flu shot

[CottShop]

[[Any doubts about that should have been resolved earlier in the year when the fears and hype turned out to be not true and many of the early reported cases of swine flu deaths turned out not even to be related to the flu.]]

Some may have died from other things- hpowever, it’s beyond dispute now that peopel ARE dying from this flu, and hteir l ungs are showing massive damage because of htis flu- let’s be objective here- give hte whole story- not just those isolated cases that turned out not to be the flu but were mistakenly attributed to hte flu-

I’m not ‘pro-flu-shot’, but I’m also goign to annalyze things objectively, and weigh the benifits with the costs because again, this swine flu is a very serious issue, and if we simply beleive the isolated cases represent the whole story, and refuse the hsots, we could be helping to spread a major pandemic- endangering others who haven’t got access to hte shots- Let’s wait until more and better stats are out htere and take a good honest objective look at the benifits vs the risks

[Condor51]

Every time I post that I got sick for a month after each of my two flu shots, FReepers tell me I’m nuts.

You're not nuts. And I'd say THEY never had a Flu Shot.

I had two Flu shots, the 1st when I was 50 and I got the Flu from it. A few years later I got my second one -- I figured the 1st was just a fluke, bad luck, and I was at the Doc's office anyway so what the heck get a 'free' Flu Shot -- I got the Flu again.

And when I got my 2nd shot I worked with a bunch of 'old fogies' like me, 55+ who all got Flu shots. They all said they 'got sick' from the shots too, it lasted about three days: Muscle Aches, Joint Pains & a Fever - THAT'S the Flu.

[netmilsmom]

Exactly!!!!

With that, my poor hubby had site injection pain that was unbelievable. He’s a computer guy and had problems working a mouse because of the muscle pain in his upper arm. That lasted two weeks.

Sorry, in my mind that means something is wrong.

[CottShop]

Again- the flu shot can’t give someone hte flu

Myth: “”The flu shot can give you the flu.”

Truth: The flu shot cannot cause the flu. Flu vaccine does not protect you from other viruses that sometimes feel like the flu. If you get the flu or get sick after a flu shot, it is because you were actually exposed to someone with the flu virus prior to receiving the shot.

Myth: “Even if I get a flu shot, I can still get a mild case of the flu.”

This can happen, but the flu shot usually protects most people from the flu. However, the flu shot will not protect you from other viruses that can cause illnesses that sometimes feel like the flu.

http://www.immunizenc.com/FluFactsMyths.htm

This is an important point, because each year there are several flus that go around at one time, and IF someoen becomes ill after getting the flu shot- usually hteir immediate reaction is ‘well the lfu shot didn’t prevent me from gettign hte flu’ but the fact is that it may very well be that you ended up with another flu unrelated to the flu that you were protected from with hte flu shot- You CAN get anopther totally unrelated flku at hte very same time that you get the lfu shot

At any one time, there are sebveral flus circulating aroudn the country, and states usually end up with several flus when ‘flu season’ hits- the flu shot usually only protects agaisnt htem ost serious flus- not general flus that peopel don’t usually have a problem with- so it’s quite possible those hwo got ‘the flu’ after gettign the flu shot either got a mild reaction to hte actual flu the shot protected them agaisnt getting full blown, OR they got a wholly different flu for which the vaccine wasn’t meant to protect htem from

[CottShop]

[[With that, my poor hubby had site injection pain that was unbelievable. He’s a computer guy and had problems working a mouse because of the muscle pain in his upper arm. That lasted two weeks.]]

Could be a reaction but also could be that the needle itself hit something, tore something or just plain injured something- I’ve had sores from needles takign blood that lasted over 2 weeks- was very sore, and this just shows the needles themselves or improper injection is to blame- just saying

[ladyjane]

Some people get very sick after taking the flu shot. It’s not that they come down with the flu, they just don’t react well to the shot.

[CottShop]

[[And when I got my 2nd shot I worked with a bunch of ‘old fogies’ like me, 55+ who all got Flu shots. They all said they ‘got sick’ from the shots too, it lasted about three days: Muscle Aches, Joint Pains & a Fever - THAT’S the Flu.]]

Read my post above- YES you can still get the flu- especially IF you’ve been exposed to hte virus right before gettign hte flu shot- but note that the flu shots are given to prevent full blown flu= not to totally prevent it, and hte flu hsots usually are targetted toward very severe flus, and we can still get hte flu, but have some protection agaisnt getting really really sick, or dying from the flu altogether- Persoanlly, I’d rather suffer mild fever, mild aches, than get full blown flu that causes serious breathign difficulty, high fever, dehydration from throwing up etc.

A friend always used to say ‘Everything’s relative’, and used to joke when I said somethign like “My relative lived to 90 years old ‘because htey took’ vitimins” that ‘Yes, but htye might have lived to 100 had they not’ lol But who knows? Since I’ve been takign hte flu shot, I’ve had a couple of flus, but htey have been mild, and who knows if they were the actual serious flus or osme other flu that the shots weren’t meant to protect against?

[netmilsmom]

>>Again- the flu shot can’t give someone hte flu<<

Again, then there is some inert ingredient that gives flu like symptoms.

Or perhaps, while building immunity to one type of flu, it exacerbated another. Or, the immune system is so busy fighting the “dead virus” one is exposed to other illnesses.

Any way you swing it, my family will NEVER get another flu shot.

[netmilsmom]

Check post 29.

Same tired cut and paste.

[netmilsmom]

>>it’s beyond dispute now that peopel ARE dying from this flu<<

People die of the flu every year. The just ran a story on our Fox2News. 40 children in the southern hemisphere died of this flu this year.

100% of those children had other preexisting conditions.

If you have those, get the flu shot.
If not, then it’s a choice. A choice I will not take.

[LucyJo]

I don’t know, ladyjane, if it wasn’t the flu it was surely the evil twin! lol.

[CottShop]

[[Again, then there is some inert ingredient that gives flu like symptoms.]]

Perhaps- but they are generally mild IF that is the case- as compared to full blown flu which does kill

[[Or perhaps, while building immunity to one type of flu, it exacerbated another.]]

The point I think is that the flu shots are for them ore dangerous flus- the ones known to kill, while gettign a different flu than the one the lfu shot is for is less dangerous- an annoyance- but not as deadly as the ones the flu shot covers

[[Or, the immune system is so busy fighting the “dead virus” one is exposed to other illnesses.]]

I don’t think that’s necessarily the case- the imune system is designed to handle several foreign attacks at once- it’s not like it’s an ‘all or nothing’ situation where it can only fight one thing at a time

[[Any way you swing it, my family will NEVER get another flu shot.]]

Well that’s your choice, but concidering the relatively minor complaints that hte flu shot might create such as achiness, or low fever, I’d hate to think that my child got hte flu, died, and that there was soemthign I could have done to prevent it- while the chances are small with most flus- this years swine flu is a whole different animals inthat it attacks children much more severely, and the fact is that those that have died from it show massive lung dammage when autopsied- and I can only imagine what hte lungs look like in those who manage to survive it-

I think the claim that 100% had ‘pre-existing conditions’ who died is misleading- true- those with pre-existing conditions are more at risk, however, there are reports now of healthy people dying from this flu as well who had no severe pre-existing conditions, and personally, I think the claims put out by the likes of WHO and CDC are tryign to downplay it to alleviate fear by insinuating only sick people will die from this flu- past flus have proven that even healthy peopel die from less severe flus

[[If not, then it’s a choice. A choice I will not take.]]

Well- good luck then

[netmilsmom]

Good luck to you too.
I’ll risk flu over paralysis.

[netmilsmom]

The Novartis and GlaxoSmithKline rep has come in at the end of the thread to tell us we are crazy.

[CottShop]

lol- Yep- that’s it- I’m an employee- and I never said you were crazy- all I was saying was the chances of negative effects is very small- but whatever