"I kan haz ekonomee?
Posted on 09/16/2009 6:28:56 AM PDT by ex-Texan
INTERNATIONAL. Legendary global investor and chairman of Singapore- based Rogers Holdings, Jim Rogers said the Fed and the US Treasury should have let 10 banks fail, not just Lehman Brothers, for the financial system to clean itself up.
Speaking to CNBC Wordwide Exchange today Rogers said "All the government officials and bureaucrats loved the fact Lehman failed, because they could all jump in and support banks."
"This whole problem was not caused by Lehman Brothers or Lehman Brothers failure. Lehman was an effect not a cause."
"The real problem over the past 10-15 years has been that regulators have not let people fail. Had they let people fail we would have solved this problem a long time ago. I don't know why they're not in jail," Rogers said.
Reiterating his view about US monetary policy and their effect on the Dollar, Rogers warned. "I would expect there to be a currency crisis or a semi-crisis this fall or next year. It's crony capitalism, Bernanke and Greenspan have brought crony capitalism to America … but that's not going to solve the world's problems."
"We're going to have zombie capitalism for the next 15-20 years. How long are you going to let the bureaucrats run the thing so we can't have a clean system?," he added.
"Banks have been going bankrupt for a few hundreds years. The way the system works is when somebody fails you let him fail. What we're doing now is we're taking the assets away from the competent people and giving them to incompetent people and telling them now you can compete with competent people with their money."
Addressing debt & consumption and how more of the same can solve the problem, a theme that has become classic Rogers rants, he said: "How can the solution for debt and consumption be more debt and more consumption? How can that be the solution to our problems?"
"What we're doing now is we're taking the assets away from the competent people and giving them to incompetent people and telling them 'now you can compete with competent people with their money,'" Rogers added.
I happen to think the famous guru is more right than the head of the Federal Reserve Bank. Bernanke is responsible for everything that is happening to our economy today. Obama follows Mr. B's orders. 0 also follows the orders of George Soros. And the CFR, Trilateral Commission and Bilderbergers.
Alan Greenspan -- Mr. Bubble himself -- is the one man I say was responsible for the housing bubble. He was also responsible for serial investment bubbles that raped our nation over the years.
Why is Greenspan still walking around as free as a bird _____ ? Why isn't he answering pointed questions of a grand jury somewhere? Or under federal indictment for destroying the economy? Why, why, why?
That is why I support Ron Paul's effort to have the Fed audited. Last I heard, Paul had over 275 co-sponsors. Paulson and Geithner were very upset. In my personal opinion, all of these greedy criminals named herein ought to be under lock and key.
But what do I know ___ ? I only saw what was happening to America back as early as 2004. Which makes me a prophet of sorts. Kind of like Noah predicting rain . . . LOL, LOL !
Jim Rogers is not popular here but I like him. Many here are still made he dissed Bush before he dissed Obama.
[”What we’re doing now is we’re taking the assets away from the competent people and giving them to incompetent people and telling them ‘now you can compete with competent people with their money,’” Rogers added.]
Obamanation says they are just taking the money from the rich and giving it to the so called rightful owners which is communist practice indeed.
The politicians of America, dems and rinos, are mad indeed.
I don’t care that he dissed Bush.
What I don’t like about him is that he puts money before everything. His advice is to move to the Orient because that’s where the next big economy is going to be?
I’d rather live in a poor, free America than a rich, communist Orient.
And I believe too many people that immigrate to America do so only for the dollar, would not fight to defend this country, and certainly wouldn’t send their children to fight to defend this country.
Hopefully, the economic catastrophe we are about experience will shake that bad fruit out of the tree.
Rogers just tells it like it is. He and Peter Schiff nailed this mess years ago. They were only wrong on the timing.
Hope that's not a racist code word. /sarc
AMEN BROTHER!
Why not?
Bush appointed Paulson.
Bush appointed Bernake.
Are these two guys anything for which Bush should be proud?
Former POTUS Jimmy Carter was more than happy to carry water for 0. The Dems have been whispering 'racist' for years and getting away with it. Today they shout it from rooftops.
The same thing happened to me right here on FR. 100% predictable. When you tell the truth people get pissed off.
Jim Rogers:" Banks have been going bankrupt for a few hundreds years. The way the system works is when somebody fails you let him fail. What we’re doing now is we’re taking the assets away from the competent people and giving them to incompetent people and telling them now you can compete with competent people with their money.” Addressing debt & consumption and how more of the same can solve the problem, a theme that has become classic Rogers rants, he said: “How can the solution for debt and consumption be more debt and more consumption? How can that be the solution to our problems?”
Jim Rogers:" Banks have been going bankrupt for a few hundreds years. The way the system works is when somebody fails you let him fail. What we’re doing now is we’re taking the assets away from the competent people and giving them to incompetent people and telling them now you can compete with competent people with their money.” Addressing debt & consumption and how more of the same can solve the problem, a theme that has become classic Rogers rants, he said: “How can the solution for debt and consumption be more debt and more consumption? How can that be the solution to our problems?”
"I kan haz ekonomee?
That is a great image ! LOL, LOL . . .
“Zombie Capitalism”?
Excellent expression!
I’d rather live in a poor, free America than a rich, communist Orient.”
Interesting dilemma. When the 1700’s became the 1800’s the place to be was London. When the 1800’s turned to the 1900’s the place to be was New York. Immigrants flocked to both places at that time.
I wonder what some of the conversations were like in households where some of the family were planning to leave? I've had the thought occur to me that immigrating to China, with the risk of the Communist government, might be a bit akin to the pioneers who settled our West; the threat of attack, plague, pests, prairie fires and so on. It is an interesting time we live in when one puts it into historical perspective.
“But what do I know ___ ? I only saw what was happening to America back as early as 2004. “
You beat me by about 6 months. Then I joined you on your predictions and we both got flamed ;-)
um... that is called socialism and welfare, which is exactly why conservative have been fighting against this insanity for decades.
In a sane world anyone who wanted welfare or a handout would be required to be castrated first, to remove their genes from the pool of humanity.
“The same thing happened to me right here on FR. 100% predictable. When you tell the truth people get pissed off. “
Remember all the FReepers who told us we were crazy when we said the mortgage market would have a meltdown unlike any previous one in history? That was the end of 05, or beginning of 06. All those folks bragging about how much their property had gone up in value? And how full of crap we were? I took no pleasure in what we wrote, but I have never seen the need to retract any of it.
Let me add something unpopular here:
Back when Glenn Beck first got boycotted over calling Obama a racist I had some advice that didn't go well with everyone. I said instead of attacking the person “Obama is a racist”,attack the actions “Obama is acting like a racist” or“Obamas actions are racist”. .
In this case it would be “Obama is lying” instead of “Obama is a liar”. Attacking the actions and not the personal makes it harder for democrats to cry racism, which they are doing from the rooftops now. MSNBC (some shows) is saying that everyone opposed to Obama’s policies, are just racists and hateful and cannot accept an AA being elected president.
They use 'the birthers' as evidence of this, which is predictable. Challenging the first AA president (especially) on where he was born is a loser.
I like him too. So what if he dissed Pres. Bush?
Under Bush, we went into a total collapse thanks in part to his mindless touting of minority (read that as illegal alien) home ownership.
bookmark
I agree that calling Obama and illegal alien, or not natural born etc. isn't helpful.
But...These court cases should proceed.
And...The **facts** should not be ignored by conservatives in the media. Just the **facts** blandly reported are enough to discredit Obama as a natural born citizen without ever having to say so directly.
Jim Rogers is one smart person - I'll bet he wonders how it's possible that other people don't "get" something as obvious as this... a system that can only bring destruction is now the norm... Thanks for the ping.
I don't like him...haven't liked him or his pro-China lifestyle for years
But I must admit I like a lot of what he says these days
He is spouting common sense
Thanks for the ping.
The problem is that America is not so free anymore, and continues its slow decline (with Reid/Pelosi/Obama accelerating it)... and the Orient isn't so communist. Japan always seems a heartbeat away from happily accepting authoritarianism, but they're certainly not Marxists. South Korea is an intriguing mix of Western freedoms and Eastern traditions. China is Communist in nameplate only, having very little social programs, unequal taxation, and immensely divergent percapita income from east to west. Southeast Asia is basically like Latin America... some great little countries, and some crackpot dictatorships. The (highly Catholic) Phillipines is more in danger of accepting Sharia Law than in going Communist. (Their southern half is Muslim, and growing fast.)
The choice is not between a poor, free America and a rich, communist Orient, because America isn't that free, and most of the East won't be rich for a while, and they're not terribly Communist... however, if you love Western conveniences and wages, Singapore (incredibly clean city-state), Hong Kong (amazing geography and bustling nightlife), and numerous places in Japan all offer higher per capita income than the US, and are all better-lit than Las Vegas.
Maybe a delusional historical perspective.
The difference in the analogy you created is that when people moved to America, they were moving to a place of freedom, of very restrained government, at least after US independence and the US Constitution, which is when the prosperity really took off.
To go to China now is completely different. That country is not run by the people, there is no “blank slate” upon which you can write your future. IT IS A COMMUNIST NATION.
The great lie is that China is economically sound. They are not. They are built upon the same government-stimulus and export-house-of-cards just as we are built upon the government-stimulus and debt-house-of-cards.
We're facing a global economic collapse and no one nation is going to save us all. We're all going down together. The nation that gives the people the most freedom will be the one that pulls out of the swamp first.
The short refutation is this: America has been and still is the last greatest promise of freedom and prosperity of any and all systems ever put in place by mankind. You don't abandon that because you may be able to make more money in China. You stay here and throw the tyrants out.
See my post 30. The ChiComs will not allow you to live as you want. They will pretend to do so as long as you are profiting the state. When you are no longer profiting the state, you become a liability that must be dealt with.
***I’d rather live in a poor, free America than a rich, communist Orient.***
I understand stand your point, but we are becoming less free by the day and China is at least moving in the direction of economic freedom.
For sure we’ll have zombie GM and Chrysler until Nov 2012.
Actually I fear that Orly Taiz (spelling ?) will be silenced very soon. Soros spent millions to get 0 elected. 0 himself has spent nearly $ 2 Million fighting a case he could have had dismissed with a $ 24 birth certificate.
As I said in my follow-up posts, we don’t flee America hoping to find more freedom in China. We throw the tyrants out and re-establish what our Founding Fathers put in place.
Also, as Mao and Jiang have both stated, they followed the Soviet model up to but short of their economic policies. Why? Their goal was totalitarianism and they couldn’t keep control over their people unless they had economic prosperity. So they deliberately selected “free-trade” capitalism with nations outside their borders and communism within.
Their “economic freedom” is not true economic freedom. And as they start to suffer the recession as the rest of us, you will see the ugly, tyrannical face behind their “free-market” facade.
THE ANT AND THE GRASSHOPPER
Two Different Versions! ................. Two Different Morals!
OLD VERSION:
The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed. The grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold.
MORAL OF THE STORY: Be responsible for yourself
MODERN VERSION:
The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving.
CBS, NBC , PBS, CNN, and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food. America is stunned by the sharp contrast.
How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so? Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper and everybody cries when they sing, ‘It’s Not Easy Being Green.’ Acorn stages a demonstration in front of the ant ‘s house where the news stations film the group singing, ‘We shall overcome.’ Rev. Jeremiah Wright then has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper’s sake. Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid exclaim in an interview with Larry King that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share. Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of the summer. The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the Government Green Czar.
The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ants food while the government house he is in, which just happens to be the ant’s old house, crumbles around him because he doesn’t maintain it. The ant has disappeared in the snow. The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the once peaceful neighborhood.
MORAL OF THE STORY: Be careful how you vote in 2010.
Even if he wasn't born in America it's a loser. Hell americans sided with Clinton for lying to a judge about sex with Monica (under a feminist law he signed) and Clinton was white. The first AA attacked for where he was born. This whole issue is a loser.
I dont buy "its the right thing to do " or the 'constitution' argument either. If it was McCain the birthers would be defending McCain.
Sounds an awful lot like where the Obama Administration and its Demopublican allies are taking the USA.
I think Jim Rogers wouldn’t be promoting Asian economic ascendency if US politics didn’t hamper US growth. Jim Rogers is simply moving his money and family where he believes the most economic freedom and oppotunity exists. I happen to think economic freedom and personal freedom are closely related so it should be interesting to see how “free” America remains.
I don’t know. I’m thinking you need to go someplace small. I think two of the biggest problems are: There are too many people in the world now and, the US America is to freaking large. Do you realize we are the third most populous nation in the world behind China and India? I seriously question whether it’s possible to govern such an enormous entity. This is why I hold secession and union breakup to be a legitimate strategy. No bellyaching about doing it for cause, just that we need to do it to breath some life into a moribund, or zombie, system.
OTOH, for myself, if I should ever be able to buy my freedom from debt slavery, I might like to go to Poland.
Because Rogers recognized that Chinese are the ‘ants’, Americans are the ‘grasshoppers’ dancing in the sun, demanding high paying jobs to buy cheap products on credit and then running to government when their credit runs out (government encourages both debt and running to them when it doesnt work out.) This did not start under Obama either and got worse under Bush than even Clinton.
Wilson said “You Lie” rather than “You’re A Liar”, and got a HR Censure, sort of.
Yeah but he wears a bow tie so I don’t trust him,.
I must heartily disagree. Have you been to China for an extended stay? I'm preparing for my 5th medium-term stay in 3 years right. I've rarely felt freer, and I'm sadly not making nearly enough profits for their coffers! LOL
One important rule is to NEVER embarrass the local officials (and they're easily offended if it will enhance their wallet or stature). If you're unfortunate enough to stick on their radar, have a friend who knows how to make them happy and make you invisible to them again. As for the national government, the further you are from Beijing, the less they matter at all... to anyone, including the local government. Until you get on THEIR radar, which is tough to do in a nation of 1.3 billion, Beijing is not a huge impediment. You really have to be pretty outstanding to get that high up. Local ordinances often contradict Beijing's edicts... and as long as it's just a bureaucratic little matter, even Beijing often does not bother to take up the issue... but if it's an embarrassment, or a challenge to their position... then someone is about to have a new experience or three.
I've never feared the police in China as much as in the US (although Hong Kong's boys are surprisingly gung-ho... they do NOT play around, and carry some big toys). Most often in the summertime the Chinese cops are sleeping in their air-conditioned cars. (I'm usually in the south.) They're mostly slow, plodding, and their power-trip comes from their pen and forms, not from their physical strength and firearms. (Of course, as Westerners, I'm sure we get better treatment, and some Chinese reading this might beg to differ.) Actually, I've more often seen them unarmed than armed. When China's leaders wants to get down to business, they don't waste time using the police. When you see the green uniforms in town, then it's time to go find a nice place to hole up for a while... like maybe the embassy.
The ChiComs themselves do not believe in Communism as an economic system at all. They belong to the party because it gives stature, and makes doing business far easier. If the nameplate said The Chinese Vegan Party, they'd just swear that there's no shrimp in those dumplings and go on about their day. Today, they say that they practice "Chinese Socialism"... since they would be mildly embarrassed to say that they were wrong, and Capitalism is the way to go, they instead keep a meaningless name (and make the US look like Cuba in its control over business).
As long as you remain a nameless face in a vast seas of faces, you can break almost any rule you want... and MANY Chinese businesspersons follow this credo as their only rule, sadly. (Makes it tough to deal sometimes!) If you want freedom at a personal level, it's hard to beat. Now, if you want social freedoms that you can petition the government for, especially against said government... then, well, you'd better have an amazing legal team and a top-notch PR staff on your side, and probably on both sides of the Pacific. Otherwise you're likely in a losing battle. They're happy to open up every economic freedom to keep the cash coming and keep the western farmers from rioting TOO much... but the CCP formally recognizing the right to contradict, challenge, or organize against the CCP in public? Well... Have a cookie while you wait. That's going to take a while.
Thanks, You are right!
I guess my advice didnt help LOL. I agree with “you lie”
Good summation
A serious and moral nation works for what it wants to buy
It doesn't borrow like a madman for what it wants and this is what OTC derivitives, the housing bubble and foreign trade deficit are
I like the way the Chinese have made threats about screwing some of the derivatives makers by nullifying the deals they entered into
I agree with your point, but you fail to see the reality. China is growing so fast that they have to call a drop to 8% growth a "Chinese recession". Typically, it's double-figures. They've felt the recession as much as anyone... but for them, a raw drop of 3-6 percentage points from their growth rate is not a catastrophe. They often have to slow the economy to keep inflation in check.
Certainly, if they went down to 0-2% growth, or worse, then there would be some problems. China's shiny new middle class does NOT want to go back to being poor... and there would be consequences if they were forced to. The CCP can probably stave off a few million poor farmers 1500 miles away... but the few million of the new Middle Class folk in Beijing, plus a few million more from each of the immediately surrounding urban centers (TianJin, SJZ, TaiYuan, JiNan), with motivation and resources? Even a response like Tiannenmen wouldn't be enough to save the CCP then. The Chinese have had 4 new governments in the past 98 years. They wouldn't blink at the idea of starting another one if this one is seen as killing the Golden Goose.
At least Bush did call on Congress several times, to reign in Fannie and Freddie and the banking elites who ‘got drunk and are suffering a hangover’.
My son is traveling on Bhutan Happiness Tour . right now. Not really a tour, as he will be over there for a month.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.