Obama to cut fossil fuel subsidies

New Zealand site; http://www.3news.co.nz/ ^ | 9/23/2009 | Assiciated Press

[larry hagedon]

Professor, have you ever heard of the Iowa Bio Center? I doubt it very much, as your knowledge of the bio technology industry seems to be very limited.

Here is a complex of 4 or 5 companies, including a new one not mentioned on this web site that makes cleaning supplies for other companies. The complex was built at a cost of 1.5 billion dollars, employing over 2,000 people, tipping a semi of corn every 2 and a half minutes. I have sat in my car and watched the semis coming in for unloading, 2 lines, keep em rolling. They make the following products from corn:

Cargil;
High Fructose Corn Syrup
Corn Syrup
Dextrose
Crude Corn Oil
Corn Gluten Meal
Sweet Bran®
Dry Sweetners
Acidulants
Citric Acid
Anhydrous Citric Acid
Liquid Citric Acid
Sodium Citrate
Potassium Citrate
Itaconic Acid
Glucosamine
Health & Food Technologies
Natural Vitamin E
D-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate
Mixed Tocopherols
Phytosterols
FFA
FAME
Citrous Salt
CO2
Ethanol

Ajinomoto Food Ingredients LLC;
Monosodium Glutamate

Ajinomoto Heartland;
Threonine
Feed Grade Lysine

Wacker;
Cyclodextrins

Now Mr professor, I dont know if you ever shoveled corn to your hogs, but I have. An incredibly wasteful practice.

Today as you can see, we process corn for best uses, only one of which is ethanol. Do you think this plant would close down if the ethanol subsidy did not exist? I dont think so. Your base knowledge of biotechnology seems to be years out of date. You have much to learn, if you want to learn. If you do you can google up many industry sites for current news. Look up Poet, look up ADM. Google bio mass, alternative energy, green algae. You will learn much, if you want to.

[larry hagedon]

To Double tap

Lack of knowledge is a horrible thing, I do feel sorry for you.

I am posting the facts, they do not change, so why should my answers change?

If you are so smart to know this bio technology stuff is all a hoax, ask your self why British Petroleum would put up 600 million dollars to fund green algae production? Do they know something you do not?

Yep, they sure do.

[larry hagedon]

my O my Double Tap, you are sure a spiteful person. Actually I have made much progress. I used to get the very false statement thrown in my face, that there are no subsidies on petroleum.

Why anyone would believe that the powerful oil industry, holding a 50 year monopoly on transportation fuels, heating oils and heating and cooking gases, would not be getting massive subsidies from friendly congressmen, was beyond me, but incredibly some people actually did believe this.

Now most of the posters have at least finally realized that incredibly foolish position is false. Now they are arguing the details, like percentages of miles driven per dollar of subsidy.

Yes, I have made progress.

[businessprofessor]

Perhaps you will find more in common on the leftist sites. They will be sympathetic to conspiracy theories about big oil, Bush, and the gulf wars. They will also ignore the large amount of taxes and regulations on the oil and natural gas industry as well as the monstrous subsidies and mandates for the renewable industry. I doubt that you will find many who share your rants against big oil on this site.

[Double Tap]

Why anyone would believe that the powerful oil industry, holding a 50 year monopoly on transportation fuels, heating oils and heating and cooking gases, would not be getting massive subsidies from friendly congressmen, was beyond me, but incredibly some people actually did believe this.

Which proves right there you don't have the first clue what you are talking about OR are posting leftist crap to stir the pot.

You do know what a monopoly is right?

[larry hagedon]

I have nothing against big oil, just against misinformation. I do believe we need to drill here drill now.

I also believe in American Industry, American entrepreneurs, American workers producing American goods. This is why I support Made in America food, animal feeds, pharmaceuticals, dietary supplements and protein additives, industrial chemicals, plastics and energy, all made right here in America from our garbage, sewage, animal manures, oil field and tar sands pollutants, industrial wastes, and any green growing biomass and plant material that can be grown or found on the face of the earth.

And I will match my Conservative credentials against yours any day.

What is your problem with that?

[larry hagedon]

Much easier to demagogue someone than to consider that you might be missing the basic knowledge about something like Made in America Products by American workers and American companies, isnt it.

[businessprofessor]

I do not understand why you repeat the misinformation that big oil is subsidized. You provided some leftist websites for evidence that big oil is subsidized. On balance, the situation is just the opposite. Any subsidies received by the industry are offset by much larger taxes, regulations, and restrictions. This industry has tried to invest large amounts but the rats have prevented investments in the most promising areas for exploration.

[larry hagedon]

I am posting the truth. Why do you find it so hard to believe Petroleum has enjoyed 50 years of sweetheart taxpayer support from friendly congressmen? Do you honestly believe one oil refinery or pipeline was ever built without large government subsidies? Yo might also ask yourself why Oil Giant BP put 600 million dollars into green algae research. Just a tax write off maybe? Now you want to kill the messenger because the facts do not support your preconceived bias. I guess Jerome Corsi was as easily fooled me an them lefties: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=111304 FROM JEROME CORSI'S RED ALERT Slippery tactics: Obama declares war on oil Calls to end 'fossil-fuel' subsidies, impose new tax I suppose you will say this is a lie too: http://www.lecg.com/about/publications/PublicationDetail.aspx?pub=e3c2b607-e4b1-4be3-96c7-99360d2b9993 Ethanol Tax Credit – An Unequivocal Economic Success, Says New Analysis November 17, 2008 – Wayne, PA – The federal investment in ethanol over the past three decades has yielded billions of dollars of economic gain, according to a report released today from economic consulting firm LECG, LLC. The report concluded that each dollar invested in America’s ethanol industry in the form of the federal excise tax credit returned nearly $5 to federal, state and local government and the economy as a whole . According to the analysis, the tax provision has not only increased federal tax revenues, but also reduced imported oil expenditures and put more money into consumer pockets. The analysis, conducted by LECG Director John Urbanchuk on behalf of the Renewable Fuels Association (RFA), found that America’s ethanol industry has: ”...generated an estimated $33.4 billion (2008$) in tax revenue for the Federal government and nearly $17 billion (2008$) of additional tax revenue for State and Local governments since 1978, reduced America’s tab for imported oil by $97.5 billion, helped reduce farm program payments by more than $3 billion annually since 2006, and put some $66 billion more into the pockets of Americans in the form of increased household income since its inception in 1978.” Professor, I could teach you much about the emerging World Wide Age of Bio Technology, were you willing to learn. Obviously you would be shocked and amazed were you to open your mind to the realities of the Bio Tech world. And yes, we do need to drill here drill now, as I have consistently said for many years.

[businessprofessor]

Ethanol is a different animal entirely. Ethanol has huge subsidies and mandates. Ethanol is an enviromental and economic disaster. We agree that ethanol is a subsidy king.

I do not know the history of oil refinery development. Even if some subsidies were provided, the refineries are not subsidized now. It is very difficult to build new refineries or expand existing refineries. If you look broadly, you will see that the oil and natural gas industries pay very large amounts of taxes and are subject to onerous regulations. I do not doubt that some tax breaks still exist. However, on balance the taxes and regulations far exceed any subsidies. The industry has begged to expand but the rats have only put up obstacles.

The left indicates that the gulf wars were a subsidy to big oil. This ridiculous statement is laughable. The military has always protected commerce in any form. Iraq wanted to sell oil so the wars were not necessary to stop Iraq from hoarding oil. Oil was the source of Iraq’s wealth, enabling it to wage war on its neighbors.

I do not understand your hostility to the oil industry. This industry has developed innovative products that support our standard of living. The product is difficult to find, develop, and deliver. The industry pays far more in taxes than profits. The industry adheres to strict environmental standards (in this country). Let the left trash this industry. We should thank the industry for its wondrous products.

[larry hagedon]

I intend no hostility to the oil industry. The oil industry won several wars for us and decades of cheap petroleum energy made the US the success we were a few years ago, and may someday become again.

The big difference now is that The Age of Bio Technology will be a factor in the future renewal.

I have been hit over the head time and time again when I speak of exciting developments in the Age of Bio Technology by people that say to me, “But Ethanol is SUBSIDIZED, therefor we must hate it and destroy it”. Time and time again, I hear “We must remove subsidies from ethanol to level the playing field”.

I always reply, but the petroleum industry has been subsidized for 50 years.

The reply is always the same. “Not True, Petroleum is not subsidized and never has been”.

The only intent in my posts here is to demonstrate that Petroleum has enjoyed subsidies also. If we hate ethanol for subsides, then we must also hate oil for subsidies.