Posted on 10/05/2009 4:34:30 PM PDT by Daffynition
If you own a piece of property, it's a good idea to know what is going on there.
If you don't, you could end up losing it.
A Valley woman can attest.
The woman and her husband purchased a large parcel of land a few miles away from their home as an investment, and sort of forgot about it.
Meanwhile, a neighbor to the land used it for 21 years and then claimed ownership, using the old "squatter's rights" law in Pennsylvania.
"We purchased it in the 1970s, as an investment," the woman said. "We paid the taxes on it every year, but never looked at it. We thought, who is going to steal it? It's land. You can't put it on a flatbed and haul it away."
Also, the neighbors of the land were friends of the couple.
"These were people we knew all of our lives," she said. "We were not aware what was going on with the land."
When the couple decided to sell the parcel to raise money for their four children, they discovered the plight of the land.
"We had a buyer, so we hired a surveyor," she said. "That's how we found out about it. When we hired the surveyor, we got served with papers that (the neighbors) had put in a claim."
Then, lawyers for both sides began to negotiate and the result was that the neighbors ended up with 55 percent, the lawyer for the couple 25 percent and 20 percent for the couple.
"Hopefully, we can still sell it," she said. "One of the reasons we didn't keep up with what was going on there was that the land was off then beaten path. The land was a few miles away from our house. And the land was landlocked. We went out to see it, and it was a very bumpy ride "
The woman said she and her husband could have opted for a jury trial to get the land back, but then they took the risk of losing all of it.
"We didn't want to go to trial," she said. "This could have dragged out for years. We didn't want to do that."
So they took the deal.
But the woman wanted to use her unpleasant experience to educate others.
"It's just not ethical," she said. "I wouldn't do that to somebody. It's so much like stealing. (The neighbors) didn't pay the taxes on it, nor did they have the deed. We paid the taxes on it, all those years.
"I think people should be made aware that this law exists," she continued. "I don't want to see this happen to someone else. We should teach children in school skills they will need to live, like how to balance a checkbook and how the stock market works. We should also teach them about the law."
The law is called adverse possession, and what happened to the woman is relatively common across the United States, according to attorney William Hoffmeyer, of the Hoffmeyer & Semmelman law firm of York, experts in land law.
Hoffmeyer said any neighbor who permits use of their land for 21 years can lose the land to the person using it.
Hoffmeyer said the law arose when Pennsylvania was being settled by William Penn.
"It started when land was going to waste," Hoffmeyer said. "The law was created so that if someone else could use the land, they got it."
Hoffmeyer said there are four key concepts for someone to claim, or lose, adverse possession.
"Those words are open, notorious, hostile and visible," he said. "Open means if someone is doing something with the land right out in the open and not hiding it," Hoffmeyer said.
"Notorious is if anybody knows what is happening on the land. Visible means one can see what is being done with the land, and hostile means what is being done with the land is against the rights of the true owner."
There are some ways to fight the law. Hoffmeyer said.
"If the landowner could take action to eliminate any of those words," he said. "For instance, to eliminate hostile, the landowner can take specific legal action against the user. They can tell them they are no longer permitted to use the land, and if they continue to do so, a trespass action will be filed against them. Or a court injunction could be filed, that forbids the people on the land."
Hoffmeyer said he encounters many cases of adverse possession in his daily practice.
"We see it quite a bit," he said. "It happens many times with people who inherit land from their parents. They don't live anywhere close to the property, so have no idea what is going on there. Out of loyalty to their parents, they pay the taxes on it every year, but never look at the property until they discover a neighbor is trying to take it from them.
"It also happens when neighbors around a property inch over a boundary line," Hoffmeyer continued. "A less-than-desirable neighbor may mow the lawn over the line; or plant trees, flowers or shrubbery over the line, or install a fence over the line."
It is up to the property owner to monitor such activity, and stop it as soon as he or she learns it is happening, Hoffmeyer said.
"You can write a letter to the neighbors, telling them they are trespassing," he said. "In the letter, you tell them if they don't cease and desist, you will initiate a trespassing action against them."
Hoffmeyer said in one case, a landowner who had sold land around him noticed his new neighbors were moving in - literally - toward him.
"The landowner sent the neighbors a letter which stated they all acknowledged and understood they were not acquiring ownership of the land, but were being permitted to use it," Hoffmeyer said. "They were also told they had to assume the liability for the property they are using."
That the laws allows someone to do this is very wrong.
If someone did this to me I'd be very angry. I'd be hard pressed not to seek retribution in other ways.
These types of situations can happen to anyone - know your boundaries.
Anything more going on with that couple in Bolder Colorado whose land was taken away from the lawyer neighbors that knew the judge that ordered it?
When we hired the surveyor, we got served with papers that (the neighbors) had put in a claim."
Those are some good friends.
If someone did this to land I or my relatives owned then I sincerely doubt that any structures that the trespassers had put up would survive the next “lightning” storm.
The first thing you do.....
If someone did this to land I or my relatives owned then I sincerely doubt that any structures that the trespassers had put up would survive the next “lightning” storm.
They should follow the King Ranch laws. You step on their land; you get shot.
Many years ago, my attorney told me that when you buy property, you should have it surveyed. He said you don’t do it so much for yourself but for your heirs.
This could have been prevented. Owning property also entails responsibilities.
I don’t know any additional info about the Colorado story. Sorry.
"These were people we knew all of our lives," she said. "We were not aware what was going on with the land."
No doubt the neighbors think themselves clever. I wonder what they will be thinking on Judgment Day.
Adverse possession is a necessary and practical rule that fixes some thorny property issues. But usually... it is only about small amounts... an adjustment of a long-accepted property line for example: Say you and a neighbor have had a fence between your lots for twenty years, and you've both just assumed that it defined the property line. Then he gets a survey done that places the property line three feet inside your fence. Without adverse possession he could just take it. This could be extremely disruptive to you, especially considering what else might be affected. Building setbacks could be enforced on the new line that means taking out part of the house, or outbuildings, or pools, or whatever. But AP basically says "Look, you agreed to this line before and you don't get to change it after all these years". It's actually pretty reasonable.
This case seems pretty extreme. If they really didn't know about the land use, it seems to me that the AP clock starts ticking when they found out. But I'm not a lawyer. It's also hard to see how it could take such a huge portion of the land.
1. Eminent domain. I'd rather, if the government really wants to put up yet another cop shop or indoctrination center, they pop 'round to Century21 and ReMax like the rest of us shlubs and pay the real market rate. As it stands now, they can just say "your land is worth x, and we want it, so here you go, now get off."
2. "Adverse possession" or squatters' rights or whatever you want to call it. Basically, if you trespass once and get caught, tough noogies for you. But if you do it every day for a long time, at some point it suddenly becomes yours. Bah!
Squatter’s Laws typically need seven years to become active; the stated reasons that the land not being used (kept or maintained) by the owner can be kept and maintained by someone else.
I’m hesitant to call this immoral, certainly dirty that the neighbors claimed it w/o discussing it. The people who refuse to move out of foreclosed homes are, IMO, much more immoral.
But this does raise an interesting point. Could I buy a foreclosed property being populated with squatters and run them off with a shotgun? I mean that sounds like fun, and maybe we can make it the next Olympic Sport to celebrate Chicago. ;)
If that ever happened to me, I'd move the fence. It ain't my dad-gum land, and if I accidentally put a fence on it, I'm wrong!
I guess this is why people post no trespassing signs all over large peices of property for several reasons, liability and adverse possession laws.
Yes I agree about that. Here where I live many people years ago weren’t very careful about their property lines and many a garage is actually 3-4” over the property line. Should the property that owns the garage have to give it up for 3” of land or is it more fair for them to have a clear title?
I wonder if I could put up a small shack deep in a forest on federal (or International Paper, or Weyerhaeuser) land, then gradually upgrade it to a nicer shack over two decades . . . could I then claim the land was mine? Probably not but how is this scenario any different than that in the article?
First year of law school - first week of real property law - adverse possession. It goes back centuries. If you own it - maintain it.
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