New Russian Carrier Killers

Strategy Page ^ | October 27, 2009

[myknowledge]

In Russia, the fifty man crew for the first Yasen (Graney) class SSGN (nuclear powered cruise missile sub) arrived at the Sevmash shipyards where their boat is being built. The crew was put together four years ago, and has been training ever since. The crew will continue training, increasingly on the first boat of the class (the Severodvinsk), which will be launched in a few months and enter service within two years.

Last July, construction began on a second Yasen class SSGN. Russia plans to complete six boats of this class within the next six years. Construction of the first Yasen class boat, the Severodvinsk, began in 1993, but lack of money led to numerous delays. Originally, the Severodvinsk was to enter service in 1998. Work on the Severodvinsk was resumed six years ago. If work is not interrupted, the second Yasen class boat should be ready in less than six years.

The 9,500 ton Yasens carry 24 cruise missiles, as well as eight 25.6 inch torpedo tubes. Some of the cruise missiles can have a range of over 3,000 kilometers, while others are designed as "carrier killers." The larger torpedo tubes also make it possible to launch missiles from them, as well as larger and more powerful torpedoes. The ship is highly automated, which is why there is a crew less than half the 134 needed to run the new U.S. Virginia class boats. The Yasen design is based on the earlier Akula and Alfa class SSNs. Russia had originally planned to build 30 Yasens.

[myknowledge]

Graney class submarine. One deadly CBG killer when equipped with SS-N-26 Yakhonts.

A 50 man crew? Is the Russian navy kidding me? What happens when you need the damage control team?

One commenter replied: A 50-man crew is fine when things are operating as they should. But this is a combat vessel designed to sail into harm's way. The likelihood of sustaining damage is always present. Accidents also happen during peacetime. Its a big boat and will 50 men be sufficient to handle the emergency situation.

The US no doubt could have installed highly automated systems on its subs like the Virginia and her sisters. But there's a reason they have relatively large crews based on hard lessons learned that things don't always go the way you want them to. Those extra pairs of hands will come in very handy in such situations.

Another commenter replied: 50 man crew on a SSGN? Kiss "Damage Control" goodbye if any serious damage or God forbid a serious fire breaks out. Can you say billion dollar death-trap.

What do you think?

[Haiku Guy]

It could be that damage control is not high on the list of priorities. The boat is designed to complete a mission. After that mission is complete, it does not matter whether or not the boat survives. It is not like another US Carrier Group is going to happen by and need killin’.

Look at the Russian surface fleet carrier killers. Those things would last just long enough to loose their missiles. After that, it’s “Dosvadanya Rodina!”

[dennisw]

In a short but intense war you don’t need to be so concerned about damage. The war will be so quick that chances of the sub being being detected and hit by us is small. This sub will launch its missiles and/or torpedoes and scoot back home and its mission be be finished for that war

[FreedomPoster]

Ping.

[Citizen Tom Paine]

I’ll bet you a nickel against $500, that the “carrier killers” are nuclear capable. One has to remember that the old Soviet Union spent billions of dollars to provide defenses against one carrier battle group. One sub that could sink a carrier, with some degree of certainty, is cheap.

[Non-Sequitur]

bump

[myknowledge]

But since the Graney SSN is nuclear powered, it would have global range. What if it gets into a duel with a US submarine (688-I, Seawolf or Virginia class)?

The automated systems would be damaged, fires would break out aboard and there may be insufficient surviving personnel to man them.

It's sort of like Crimson Tide, except the Graney class sub would sink to the bottom of where, the Barents Sea, the Atlantic or the Pacific?

[dennisw]

It’s the same as one cheap anti tank missile destroying a tank. Armor and armored carrier battle groups are losing their advantage all the time ...at least when up against a sophisticated enemy. Can still intimidate punk nations like Iran or Venezuela

[Virginia Ridgerunner]

If that computer-generated image is accurate, then it looks like the SS-N-26 is equipped with ramjet propulsion technology, with the air inlets around the nose.

[Doohickey]

Uh...no. Those ‘ports’ in the bow are torpedo tube outer doors. The screw is shrouded to reduce blade tip cavitation.

[Doohickey]

Uh...nevermind.

[Virginia Ridgerunner]

Not the sub, but the missile. The Russians have had a robust ramjet research program for years now, and the fruits of their labor may be becoming apparent.

[grobdriver]

And the Carrier Killer-Killer:

http://www.military-aircraft.org.uk/other-military-aircraft/lockheed-p-3-orion.htm

..... ahhh... oh, never mind.

[Travis McGee]

Pingski

[OA5599]

On an American sub, there are basically three crews that go out to sea. The watch standing rotation is 18 hours with 6 hours on watch, 12 hours off.

In the off time, the first 6 hours are standby and the last 6 hrs are for rest. A watch stander may not perform maintenance, be involved in an evolution that would keep him from his watch standing duties, or leave his station for a head call or get a snack. The standby watch stander will ordinarily sleep during that period, but will called up for a relief when needed.

In the engine room alone, there are 10 enlisted men and one officer per watch:

Engineering Officer Of the Watch
Engineering Watch Supervisor
Engine Room Supervisor
Reactor Operator
Electric Plant Operator
Engine Room Upper Level
Engine Room Lower Level
Engine Room Forward
Throttleman
Reactor Technician
Roving Electrician

That's 35 men for the engine room alone (EOOW and EWS are typically 4 section compared to the others in 3 section rotation).

In my experience, in normal operation, one man could perform all the duties of the ERS, ERUL, ERLL, and ERF. There is really not too much to do. The most time consuming portion of the watch is taking readings for your logs (hourly). (The only absolutely critical thing to do in the engine room that can't be scheduled is regulating the bearing oil temperature. Why that is done manually is beyond me.)

But the US Navy philosophy is to identify potential problems before they happen. You don't need eight guys writing down temperature, pressure, and other readings every hour for the ship to run, but it helps to keep a watch stander focused on his station and alert them to potential failures.

And as others have pointed out, during a casualty, those 35 men will spread thin pretty quickly.

All you have to do is compare the US Navy's accident record to that of the Russians and Soviets.

[MGBGUN]

Looks like we need to festoon all the picket ships and the carrier with these...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-116_Rolling_Airframe_Missile

The RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) is a small, lightweight, infrared homing surface-to-air missile in use by the United States Navy, Turkish Navy, German Navy, Hellenic Navy, Egyptian Navy, and the Republic of Korea Navy. It was intended originally and used primarily as a point-defense weapon against anti-ship cruise missiles. The missile is named because it rolls around its longitudinal axis during its flight to stabilize its flight path.

The onboard Mk-49 launcher installation weighs 5,777 kilograms (12,740 lb) and stores 21 missiles. The original weapon cannot employ its own sensors prior to firing so it must be integrated with a ship’s combat system, which directs the launcher at targets. On American ships it is integrated with the AN/SWY-2 and Ship Self Defense System combat systems. SeaRAM, a model equipped with independent sensors is undergoing testing.

[Kenny Bunk]

McGee, this sub, combined with a stand-off attack with cruise missiles dropped from a noisy old Bear, cruise missiles from surface ships, and of course torpedo and missile attack from older subs, present a real threat to carrier groups. Some of the Russki crews might even make it back, which is not a priority!

Of course, all the Russki weapons are nuclear-capable. WTF? Over.

[magslinger]

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[CTOCS]

According to the image posted, the 3rd verticle device from the left in the center of the sail is the mailbox !!!

[Riley]

It’s for sending and receiving sEaMail. It takes the place of the (now obsolete) Mail Bouy.

I’m sure that legions of greenhorn watch-standers will be relieved to hear of it.