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"Should We Fear a Constitutional Convention?"
Hogue News ^ | November 19, 2009 | Nick Kump

Posted on 11/19/2009 2:52:04 PM PST by hoguenews

When we were young, we learned about the best and brightest minds in the nation coming together to create the foundation of a new country and fundamentally change the role of government in the lives of the people. Now there is a proposal to have a similar Constitutional Convention in California, but without those great minds, how are we to be sure that we get a document that rewrites the Constitution for the better and not make our state’s problems even worse?

It is important to note that according to recent article in the Ventura County Star by Timm Herdt, all of the candidates running for governor either support or are open to supporting the proposal, except for Steve Poizner. This could be a strategic move or he could really be worried about it resulting in higher taxes, but it gives Poizner the unique opportunity to distinguish himself from every candidate in the field. According to a press release from Repair California, the group organizing the proposal, 70 percent of registered Republicans, 71 percent of Democrats and 74 percent of decline to state voters support the proposal. If those numbers continue to stay that high, Poizner could end up on the wrong side of this issue.

Read the entire link...

(Excerpt) Read more at hoguenews.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: blogpimp; california; concon; constitution; convention; government; hoguenews; poizner; repaircalifornia

1 posted on 11/19/2009 2:52:08 PM PST by hoguenews
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To: hoguenews

with all the nut jobs out there, I don’t think a constitutional convention ANYWHERE would make any of us more free. That’s a real scary thought to me.


2 posted on 11/19/2009 2:54:21 PM PST by RebelTXRose
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To: hoguenews

All you need to do is look at the direction of Californicates current political climate, and you’ll realize the direction a new constitution would go.


3 posted on 11/19/2009 2:55:09 PM PST by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: hoguenews

A Constitutional Convention in this climate would truly be a nightmare visited upon the American people and the world in fact it would prove to be the total downfall of Freedom loving people everywhere !


4 posted on 11/19/2009 3:01:45 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (Screaming in Agony they ran to the Government But then Realized from whence the Agony came !)
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To: hoguenews

Too dangerous.

I submit that the majority of people in this country do not even know what a “delegated powers instrument” is.

Even worse, if you explained to them, and they were actually able to understand it, they would probably think it’s a bad idea. Most people think that government doesn’t “do enough” as it is.


5 posted on 11/19/2009 3:01:49 PM PST by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: hoguenews
the best and brightest minds in the nation coming together to create the foundation of a new country and fundamentally change the role of government in the lives of the people.

Yeah, for the worse! They took a functioning confederacy and turned it into a national monstrosity.

6 posted on 11/19/2009 3:01:52 PM PST by Huck (The Constitution--a big government boondoggle.)
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To: hoguenews

I don’t want the DC mafia anywhere near the constitution.


7 posted on 11/19/2009 3:04:24 PM PST by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: hoguenews

NO CONCON!

With the current ILLITERACY rate and the corrupt “leaders” now infesting America, a CONCON WOULD NOT END WELL!!!!


8 posted on 11/19/2009 3:08:29 PM PST by Dick Bachert ('08 WASN'T AN ELECTION. IT WAS AN INFESTATION. FUMIGATION HAS ALREADY BEGUN!)
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To: hoguenews; Travis McGee; All

People would do well to read Matthew Bracken’s take on a CONCON in his novels.


9 posted on 11/19/2009 3:14:55 PM PST by dynachrome (Barack Hussein Obama yunikku khinaaziir!)
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To: hoguenews

This idea of a Constitutional Convention is nothing more than an end run around the current Constitution requiring a super majority to increase taxes. The libs that run this state want it to be a simple majority. If they get their way I’m moving out.


10 posted on 11/19/2009 3:17:40 PM PST by vigilence
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To: hoguenews
"Many people are worried about the convention running wild and overstepping its own authority, but this proposal is extremely limiting in what can be discussed. It limits reform to four areas: the budget process, the election and initiative process, restoring the balance of power between local and state governments and creating new systems to improve government effectiveness. More important than what it says you are supposed to discuss is what it says cannot be reformed; the proposal specifically prohibits tax increases and social reforms such as marriage, abortion, gambling or casinos of any type, affirmative action, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, immigration or the death penalty. All of the deliberations would also be made public, not like the original Constitutional Convention where everything was kept secret."

A convention running wild is the least of our worries and the fear thereof just goes to show how cowardly we've become.

It would be a means of repealing the one amendment that put us in this mess in the first place. This being the 16th created in 1913 that gave the federal government powers to tax the income of individuals and businesses to redistribute this wealth to others as the government sees fit and to bring the full weight of the federal government down on anyone who doesn't comply.

Far worse would be a second civil war, collapse or revolution as some have called for.

11 posted on 11/19/2009 3:29:08 PM PST by Errant (`)
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To: hoguenews
With the people running California, you'll get this... if you're lucky.
12 posted on 11/19/2009 3:32:12 PM PST by MediaMole
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To: Errant

We are best to just correctly interpret the Constitution we already have.


13 posted on 11/19/2009 3:37:13 PM PST by cornfedcowboy
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To: MediaMole
They really just want to introduce the term 'peasants' for those of us who used to be in the middle class.

Interesting reading though. I've never seen it before.

14 posted on 11/19/2009 3:39:08 PM PST by OpeEdMunkey (Eat right...exercise...die anyway)
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To: cornfedcowboy
"We are best to just correctly interpret the Constitution"

If only that were possible. I'm afraid the ones interpreting the constitution now have been corrupted way beyond their ability to determine right from wrong as someone like yourself, a common citizen, would be able to.

Our only chance barring the ability to put strong conservatives in office is to cut off the funding that keeps the federal leviathan alive.

15 posted on 11/19/2009 3:44:43 PM PST by Errant (`)
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To: hoguenews

Oh my God yes, we should fear this! Can you imagine what a mess they would make of it? For once I agree with Poizner.


16 posted on 11/19/2009 3:46:04 PM PST by americanophile (Sarcasm: satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language.)
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To: hoguenews
"Should We Fear a Constitutional Convention?"

Most rational people used to and with very good solid reasons: the opening of the door to every nutcase which has the support of equally ignorant national legislators and judges could turn the Constitution into a bad dream.

Used to.

But where's the harm if the present Neo-fascist administration seems to be doing precisely that, destroying the Constitution, without going through the bother of meeting the Constitutional requirements for amending the Constitution?

17 posted on 11/19/2009 3:48:52 PM PST by Publius6961 (…he's not America, he's an employee who hasn't risen to minimal expectations.)
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To: hoguenews

Yes! That’s the short answer.

We do want to keep the Second Amendment, don’t we? Just think of what the delegates from the blue states would do to that! For goodness sakes, it’s not worth any debate.


18 posted on 11/19/2009 3:52:22 PM PST by OldPossum
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To: OldPossum

For now we have a majority of Red states and maybe even a super majority as would be required to ammend. After 12 million illegals and 2 million felons vote in the next election who knows...


19 posted on 11/19/2009 3:57:44 PM PST by Errant (`)
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To: hoguenews

The only change we need to the Constitution is an amendment to limit the 44th president’s term to 12 months.


20 posted on 11/19/2009 4:13:17 PM PST by 2nd Bn, 11th Mar (The "P" in democrat stands for patriotism)
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To: 2nd Bn, 11th Mar

I’d make a change to have the Supreme Court Justices serve 18 year terms, not life. Every two years, the President picks one. If one dies or leaves office, the sitting President picks a replacement to complete the term. Justices may serve for more then one term is reappointed.

It would really make the Presidency far less important, and voters would know exactly which Justices were going to be replaced by the next President.

It would also avoid the inventive to pick young unproven justices. Pick a 60-year old to serve until 78. It would end the geriatric issues, too.


21 posted on 11/19/2009 4:20:08 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (“Personal freedom begins when you tell Old Mrs. Grundy to go to Hell.” -Lazarus Long)
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To: hoguenews

Given how the prohibition against bills of attainder and ex post facto laws is utterly ignored, how would it be of any use... even assuming the new document was at all coherent?


22 posted on 11/19/2009 4:22:36 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: hoguenews
With ACORN and the Dem fraud in voting, PLUS the history of electing a Constitutionally-unqualified token black to the Presidency, risking a "politically correct" Constituiton do-over is to much of a crapshoot.

It will be decades before we get back to the plain-common-sense reading of the Constitution and what its INTENT was meant to be....which will be much to late to restore what used to be "America".

23 posted on 11/19/2009 4:24:03 PM PST by traditional1 ("don't gots to worry 'bout no mo'gage. Don't gots to buy no gas...Obama, he gonna take care o' me")
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To: dynachrome
Thanks for the ping and the plug.

My third novel covers the nightmare resulting from a runaway con-con.


24 posted on 11/19/2009 5:53:06 PM PST by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: Travis McGee; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
My third novel covers the nightmare resulting from a runaway con-con.
Only in a novel is such a concern. There is NO SUCH THING as a "CON-CON" in our system. Period.

There IS an "Amending Convention" that may PROPOSE to the States Amendments, but that is ALL that it can do.

25 posted on 11/19/2009 6:03:51 PM PST by narses ("These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own.")
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To: narses
"Only in a novel is such a concern. There is NO SUCH THING as a "CON-CON" in our system. Period. There IS an "Amending Convention" that may PROPOSE to the States Amendments, but that is ALL that it can do.

Try reading the Constitution once in a while.

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress;

26 posted on 11/19/2009 6:31:33 PM PST by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: Travis McGee
Right. Read it.
... shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, ...
That is an AMENDING Convention, furthermore limited to PROPOSING such amendments then SUBJECT to:
which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress;
NO chance, NONE of a ROGUE convention. Try reading the Constitution once in a while.
27 posted on 11/19/2009 7:02:38 PM PST by narses ("These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own.")
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To: narses

So, a CONVENTION for proposing amendments to the CONSTITUTION is not a “constitutional convention??”

I guess that English must be your 3rd or 4th language, da?


28 posted on 11/19/2009 7:09:24 PM PST by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: Travis McGee

Amending conventions, YES, Con-Cons, not a chance. Try basic English comprehension. No way can an amending convention do more than PROPOSE amendments. Period.


29 posted on 11/19/2009 7:14:15 PM PST by narses ("These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own.")
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To: narses
"…if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Churchhill

At least there is the two of us. Perhaps there are others but time too short I fear. Even Beck has talked against it...

subsisto fortis civis

30 posted on 11/19/2009 7:40:38 PM PST by Errant (`)
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To: Travis McGee

This is a story about a small, remarkable group of lawyers who took it upon themselves, as a self-appointed committee, to propel a revolution: the repeal of the 18th Amendment.

In 1927, nine prominent New York lawyers associated themselves under the intentionally-bland name, ‘Voluntary Committee of Lawyers,” declaring as their purpose ‘to preserve the spirit of the Constitution of the United States [by] bringing about the repeal of the so-called Volstead Act and the Eighteenth Amendment.” With the modest platform they thus commanded, reinforced by their significant stature in the legal community, they undertook first to draft and promote repeal resolutions for local and state bar associations. Their success culminated with the American Bar Association calling for repeal in 1928, after scores of city and state bar associations in all regions of the country had spoken unambiguously, in words and ideas cultivated, shaped, and sharpened by the VCL.

As it turned out, this success was but prelude to their stunning achievements several years later. Due in large part to the VCL’s extraordinary work, the 18th Amendment was, in less than a year, surgically struck from the Constitution. Repeal was a reality. The patient was well. People could drink.

Here is how it happened.

Climaxing decades of gathering hostility towards saloons and moral outrage over the general degeneracy said to be flowing from bottles and kegs, the Constitution of the United Stated had been amended, effective 1920, to prohibit the manufacture and sale of ‘intoxicating liquors.’ The Volstead Act, the federal statute implementing the prohibition amendment, prohibited commerce in beer as well.

At first, prohibition was popular among those who had supported it, and tolerated by the others. But before long, unmistakable grumbling was heard in the cities. To meet the uninterrupted demand for alcohol, there sprang up bathtub ginworks and basement stills, tight and discrete illegal supply networks, and speakeasies: secret, illegal bars remembered chiefly today as where, for the first time, women were seen smoking in public.

Commerce in alcohol plunged underground, and soon fell under the control of thugs and gangsters, whose organizations often acquired their merchandise legally in Canada. Violence often settled commercial differences - necessarily, it might be said, as suppliers and distributors were denied the services of lawyers, insurance companies, and the civil courts. On the local level, widespread disobedience of the prohibition laws by otherwise law-abiding citizens produced numerous arrests. Courts were badly clogged, in large part because nearly all defendants demanded jury trials, confident that a jury of their peers was likely to view their plight sympathetically.

With the growth of well-organized and serious national anti-Prohibition groups like Americans Against the Prohibition Amendment and the Women’s Organization for National Prohibition Reform, popular support for repeal grew geometrically during the thirteen years of Prohibition. In the midst of the 1932 presidential election campaign, it erupted.

It was summer. Millions were broken from economic depression, beleaguered by crime and corruption, and thirsty.

As expected, the Republicans nominated the incumbent President, Herbert Hoover, who was pledged to support Prohibition. The VCL made a stalwart effort to gain a repeal plank in the platform, taking the debate as far as the convention floor, where they were turned away by a preponderance of delegates.

The situation was much different with the Democrats. Governor Franklin D. Roosevelt of New York, who led in the delegate count, had carefully avoided taking a position on repeal. At the convention, a successful floor fight produced a pro-repeal plank drafted and defended by the VCL - in the Democratic platform, which FDR unambiguously endorsed in his acceptance speech. ‘This convention wants repeal,” he declared. “Your candidate wants repeal.”,

During the election campaign, FDR made one unequivocal speech endorsing repeal. Otherwise, both candidates successfully avoided the issue, despite or perhaps because of - their having taken opposite positions. ‘Politics is the art of changing the subject,’ observed Walter Mondale many years later.’

When the only thing standing in the way of repeal was the election of FDR, thousands of ‘wets’ and hundreds of ‘wet” organizations moved unambiguously behind the Democrat. The message was clear: Roosevelt meant repeal, and repeal meant Roosevelt.

People wanted both, and Roosevelt triumphed in the election. The number of ‘wets’ in Congress grew significantly. In nine states, voters passed referenda repealing the state prohibition laws.

This is when the VCL stepped forward and took on the remarkable leadership and responsibility for which they were so uniquely equipped. It required no particular insight into the nature of democracy to know that when the weight of public opinion demanded repeal of Prohibition, Prohibition would be repealed. The question was how. Certainly, lest the repeal process - like any important undertaking -become mired in political and legal entanglements, a thorough and solid legal plan was essential.

For years, repeal advocates had urged that the repeal question should be resolved by conventions in the states, which-is one of two methods prescribed in the Constitution for ratifying amendments. Problem was, this method had never been used. Always, the matter of amending the Constitution had been (and to this day has been) decided by state legislatures. But to ‘wets,’ that was out of the question, as state legislatures were notoriously ‘dry,” being dominated by rural, fundamentalist interests, passionate in their defense of prohibition. (The ‘one man, one vote’ rule would not become law for another thirty-one years.) The repeal resolution had to bypass state legislatures and go to popularly-elected conventions, if it were to succeed.

But by whom were such conventions to be called? How were delegates to be chosen? When and where were they to convene? Who would preside? By what rules should the convention conduct itself’.? What rights and privileges would delegates have? How were conflicts between state and federal law to be resolved?

Heavy questions, these, and neither Congress nor any state had spoken on the subject. Enter the VCL.

Conferring with eminent Constitutional scholars, conducting exhaustive legal and historical research, feverishly circulating drafts of statutes, memoranda, briefs, summaries, etc. - the working drawings of legal change - the VCL quickly produced a prototype state statute, which dealt with all of the organizational problems involved in setting up Constitutional conventions in the states. It was as invulnerable to legal challenge as the best legal minds could make it. Called ‘truly representative,’ the conventions were carefully set up to mirror exactly the preferences of voters. This was accomplished by voters electing delegates pledged for or against repeal, and apportioning delegates based on the popular Vote.

Thus the convention process became essentially a two-step referendum: voters would speak, and delegates would vote accordingly. In no way were the conventions to be deliberative bodies. The pretense of debate was not to stand in the way of repeal.

Copies of the draft bills were sent to every governor and legislative leader in all the states. Utilizing their impressive network of affiliate-members throughout the forty-eight states, as well as their exquisite and plucky legal skills, the VCL provided expert witnesses for legislative hearings, submitted thorough legal briefs, defended legal challenges, answered Constitutional questions - in short, enabled states to prepare for the day that Congress would pass a repeal resolution and send it to the states for ratification.

Congress finally loosened the steamroller on February 20, 1933, and by December 5, in thirty-six states (the necessary three-fourths) legislation setting up conventions had been enacted, the conventions had been called, delegates had been elected and convened, and the repeal resolution had passed! The final roll call vote, in Utah, was eagerly monitored by millions over a national radio broadcast.

Nearly all the states that ratified the repeal resolution relied heavily on the prototype statute promulgated by the VCL. Many enacted it verbatim, others borrowed from it heavily.

Several hours after Utah ratified the 2lst Amendment, while millions of Americans were celebrating, the VCL treasurer quietly balanced the books by making a final contribution from his own pocket in the amount of $6.66, and closed them permanently.


31 posted on 11/19/2009 7:54:19 PM PST by Errant (`)
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To: Errant

Bring lawyers, guns and money.


32 posted on 11/19/2009 9:13:00 PM PST by Canedawg (Bring lawyers, guns and money.)
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To: narses
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress;

shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution,

So, in your retarded parallel universe of Zippy Pinheads, a Convention for proposing Amendments to the Constitution.....is not a Constitutional Convention.

Are you Napoleon, or Brad Pitt, in the asylum?

33 posted on 11/20/2009 4:13:59 AM PST by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: Errant

And that was accomplished in the 1930s, eighty years before ACORN / Soros political manipulation.

A similar route to ratification would be taken today, in desperate times, following an ACORN / Soros Con-Con.

The leftist MSM would be 100% behind it, and the ‘Rat Congress gets to design the rules.


34 posted on 11/20/2009 4:19:28 AM PST by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: Travis McGee
"The leftist MSM would be 100% behind it, and the ‘Rat Congress gets to design the rules."

The states make the final ratification. Since we now have a majority of "Red" states, odds would be in favor of the people getting real constraints on government spending through use of some simple adjustment (i.e. repeal the 16th).

In a real asylum, people who attack others for no reason are common.

35 posted on 11/20/2009 5:18:56 AM PST by Errant (`)
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To: Errant

Who in the states makes the final determination? The Congress gets to make the rules. I can see bogus “state ratifying conventions” taking place in a Hugo Chavez type environment, in downtown civic centers, with “security” provided by SEIU, and the delegates from ACORN, blessed by the leftist MSM.

Any conservatives who tried to show up would get an SEIU beat down.

Would it work? On one level, yes. On another level no, because such a bogus con-con and ratifying conventions would precipitate CW2.


36 posted on 11/20/2009 5:31:06 AM PST by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: Travis McGee
"Any conservatives who tried to show up would get an SEIU beat down."

I agree it wouldn't be bloodless. Only way less so than a CW2 which is were we're headed. That or a collapse with a starving population scavenging for subsistence. It is our chance but there maybe nothing we can do to avoid a coming storm of monumental size and scope and the current landscape rent asunder.

Even so, it's my opinion that there will be a new dawn for a better world in the not too distance future. Hence I applaud the survivalist.

37 posted on 11/20/2009 5:51:51 AM PST by Errant (`)
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To: Errant
"Who in the states makes the final determination?"

The legislators and governors.

38 posted on 11/20/2009 5:59:33 AM PST by Errant (`)
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To: Errant
How governmental spending destroys YOUR JOB - Youtube Video
39 posted on 11/20/2009 6:07:52 AM PST by Errant (`)
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To: Errant

Amen. If we don’t survive, we can’t influence the future.


40 posted on 11/20/2009 7:18:16 AM PST by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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