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Hadley CRU has apparently been hacked – hundreds of files released [epic scientific fraud?]
CRU ^ | various | CRU scientists

Posted on 11/19/2009 9:40:36 PM PST by RightOnTheLeftCoast

See http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/19/breaking-news-story-hadley-cru-has-apparently-been-hacked-hundreds-of-files-released/

Summary: Some hackers got into the Climate Research Unit's server, took a bunch of files, and posted them on the Internet via a Russian server. (CRU is in the UK.)

Most of the stuff is boring, but note this one:

====

From: Phil Jones
To: ray bradley ,mann@xxxxx.xxx, mhughes@xxxx.xxx
Subject: Diagram for WMO Statement
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 13:31:15 +0000
Cc: k.briffa@xxx.xx.xx,t.osborn@xxxx.xxx

Dear Ray, Mike and Malcolm,

Once Tim’s got a diagram here we’ll send that either later today or first thing tomorrow.

I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline. Mike’s series got the annual land and marine values while the other two got April-Sept for NH land N of 20N. The latter two are real for 1999, while the estimate for 1999 for NH combined is +0.44C wrt 61-90. The Global estimate for 1999 with data through Oct is +0.35C cf. 0.57 for 1998.

Thanks for the comments, Ray.

Cheers
Phil

Prof. Phil Jones
Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) xxxxx
School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) xxxx
University of East Anglia
Norwich Email p.jones@xxxx.xxx
NR4 7TJ
UK

(Excerpt) Read more at wattsupwiththat.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bombshell; cheatablemoment; climatechange; datafudge; datamassage; enviromarxism; fraud; fraug; fudge; fudgers; globalwarming; gorebalism; gorebullwarming; hadleycru; junkscience; mann; rodneykingscience
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first 1-5051-97 next last
"Mike's Nature trick ... to hide the decline"??

"Nature" would seem to be the prestigious scientific journal.

If this holds up under scrutiny, it might point towards a history-rocking scientific fraud.

1 posted on 11/19/2009 9:40:37 PM PST by RightOnTheLeftCoast
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast

TOrrent link: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5171206


2 posted on 11/19/2009 9:41:41 PM PST by MetaThought
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To: MetaThought

You know, I tried that link—downloaded the file and tried to open it with the bit torrent app and voila, nothing... do what is the operator (me) doing wrong?


3 posted on 11/19/2009 9:49:43 PM PST by abigkahuna (Step on up folks and see the "Strange Thing" only a thin dollar, babies free)
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To: MetaThought

Thank you for the torrent link!

Given the circumstances, I’d recommend anyone who downloads it to scan it thoroughly for malicious content. This is just the sort of red-meat bait that would target people like us. It’s probably okay, the hackers seem to be on the same side we are, but who’s to say the torrent might not be co-opted at some point by others of less-pure motive? There are some mighty forces at work on this subject— put plainly, folks who want to create a global socialist paradise while lining their own pockets—and if the hackers are what they say they are, they’re very very brave (and looking at serious penalties if they’re caught).

Just be careful out there, folks. Trust nobody.


4 posted on 11/19/2009 9:50:07 PM PST by RightOnTheLeftCoast (Obama: running for re-election in '12 or running for Mahdi now? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi])
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To: abigkahuna

Oh jeez. If you’re using Windows, do an antivirus and malware scan NOW.

o Scan with your normal antivirus scanner.

o Then use SpyBot from http://www.safer-networking.org/en/download/index.html (and nowhere else). Install it. Update it. Run it.

Good luck.


5 posted on 11/19/2009 9:51:40 PM PST by RightOnTheLeftCoast (Obama: running for re-election in '12 or running for Mahdi now? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi])
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast

Using a mac. already deleted everything. thanks


6 posted on 11/19/2009 9:54:37 PM PST by abigkahuna (Step on up folks and see the "Strange Thing" only a thin dollar, babies free)
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To: abigkahuna

I just downloaded the torrent from the same link.
Did you click on the wrong link in the page?

It’s pretty safe. mostly just text files ...


7 posted on 11/19/2009 9:54:45 PM PST by MetaThought
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast

Hm....


8 posted on 11/19/2009 9:57:11 PM PST by Tzimisce (No thanks. We have enough government already. - The Tick)
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Like to see climateaudit.org go through this stuff.


9 posted on 11/19/2009 9:57:15 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast
A Cheatable MomentTM
10 posted on 11/19/2009 9:57:39 PM PST by rfp1234 (R.I.P. Scotty 7/2007-11/2009.)
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To: MetaThought

you need utorrent program to download


11 posted on 11/19/2009 9:59:30 PM PST by dila813
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To: MetaThought

downloading the file from somewhere else. I have never used my bit torrent app, so its probably something to do with the operator. When I went to download from the pirate bay address, it downloaded very quickly, like 19kb file. that was a clue something was wrong... oh well, let see if I can open this other file in a few minutes.


12 posted on 11/19/2009 10:00:40 PM PST by abigkahuna (Step on up folks and see the "Strange Thing" only a thin dollar, babies free)
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To: D-fendr

Steve McIntyre is reporting that his web site is awfully slow, no doubt from everyone who’s trying to contact him and forward this thermonuclear bombshell story.


13 posted on 11/19/2009 10:02:13 PM PST by rfp1234 (R.I.P. Scotty 7/2007-11/2009.)
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To: abigkahuna
Vuze downloaded it....and it scans clean. There's a ton of email and docs.

From what I've flipped through, they sound pretty goofy.

14 posted on 11/19/2009 10:02:53 PM PST by Psycho_Bunny (ALSO SPRACH ZEROTHUSTRA)
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To: rfp1234

I wonder if it too much to hope that included is the raw temperature data that was destroyed.


15 posted on 11/19/2009 10:04:45 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: abigkahuna
"Using a mac."

Smart.
16 posted on 11/19/2009 10:06:07 PM PST by RightOnTheLeftCoast (Obama: running for re-election in '12 or running for Mahdi now? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi])
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To: Psycho_Bunny

You can count on me checking it out


17 posted on 11/19/2009 10:07:08 PM PST by dila813
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast

Stop freaking out. It was user error. The Pirate Bay file is fine.


18 posted on 11/19/2009 10:07:14 PM PST by Psycho_Bunny (ALSO SPRACH ZEROTHUSTRA)
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast

This was also posted here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2390448/posts


19 posted on 11/19/2009 10:08:32 PM PST by Revel
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To: abigkahuna

You need utorrent to download


20 posted on 11/19/2009 10:09:01 PM PST by dila813
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To: abigkahuna
"When I went to download from the pirate bay address, it downloaded very quickly, like 19kb file. that was a clue something was wrong."

Ah. That was just the header thingie. If you're certain you're protected against viruses and malware, you could point your torrent client at that file, and that'll get it going with the torrent download from the four corners of the Internet.
21 posted on 11/19/2009 10:10:39 PM PST by RightOnTheLeftCoast (Obama: running for re-election in '12 or running for Mahdi now? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi])
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast

I’ll submit it to Drudge; not sure if he has people that can go into the technical stuff or just link to other sources.

Sending it to Junk Science might be a good idea since they have people who know their stuff.


22 posted on 11/19/2009 10:12:21 PM PST by BobbyT
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast

Wow I spoke too soon...Junk Science is already on top of it. Sending it to Drudge.


23 posted on 11/19/2009 10:13:31 PM PST by BobbyT
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To: Psycho_Bunny
"Stop freaking out. It was user error. The Pirate Bay file is fine."

Conditioned reponse. I've seen too many bad things happen with infected files from torrents and warez sites. Fortunately never to me, but to my son and a friend's daughter. She managed to brick several PCs on her family LAN by playing around with a peer-to-peer utility of some sort. Her dad nearly strangled her. Took him days to cleanse everything.
24 posted on 11/19/2009 10:13:33 PM PST by RightOnTheLeftCoast (Obama: running for re-election in '12 or running for Mahdi now? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi])
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast

THIS EMAIL IS REFERRING TO MICHAEL MANN.

I’m starting a Google search on this guy now.


25 posted on 11/19/2009 10:14:55 PM PST by Marie (Is there a crack smoking epidemic in the media that I was unaware of? It was TERRORISM!)
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast
I noted this CRU-hacked file at junkscience.com. Back in 2004, Phil Jones forwarded news of the death of (noted AGW skeptic) Prof. Daly to Mann, and called it "cheering news". What a scumbag!

From: Phil Jones To: mann@vxxxxx.xxx

Subject: Fwd: John L. Daly dead

Date: Thu Jan 29 14:17:01 2004 From: Timo H‰meranta To:

Subject: John L. Daly dead Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:04:28 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal

Mike, In an odd way this is cheering news !

One other thing about the CC paper – just found another email – is that McKittrick says it is standard practice in Econometrics journals to give all the data and codes !! According to legal advice IPR overrides this.

Cheers

Phil

“It is with deep sadness that the Daly Family have to announce the sudden death of John Daly.Condolences may be sent to John’s email account (daly@john-daly.com) “ Reported with great sadness Timo H‰meranta

26 posted on 11/19/2009 10:14:55 PM PST by rfp1234 (R.I.P. Scotty 7/2007-11/2009.)
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast

Confirmed, agreed, the file is fine.


27 posted on 11/19/2009 10:15:05 PM PST by dila813
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast

Speaking of Daly, his web site still exists, and has some good info.

http://www.john-daly.com/


28 posted on 11/19/2009 10:20:57 PM PST by rfp1234 (R.I.P. Scotty 7/2007-11/2009.)
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2390537/posts

I think this is the guy...


29 posted on 11/19/2009 10:22:28 PM PST by Marie (Is there a crack smoking epidemic in the media that I was unaware of? It was TERRORISM!)
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To: rfp1234

One of the files says they are running statistics on their model runs and just picking the values in the middle because they can’t afford to run their climate models.

Ideally, they would need thousands of simulations but they will run as few as 8 and then use statistics to try to fill in the gaps.

Some of these show significantly less warming and if I knew how to read the chart, maybe even cooling.

I need to read more, but it is disturbing that they aren’t even doing the work and basically just filling in the gaps.

In other words, wet your thumb and stick it in the wind.


30 posted on 11/19/2009 10:25:07 PM PST by dila813
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast
From: Tom Wigley To: Kevin Trenberth Subject: Re: BBC U-turn on climate Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:09:35 -0600 Cc: Michael Mann , Stephen H Schneider , Myles Allen , peter stott , "Philip D. Jones" , Benjamin Santer , Thomas R Karl , Gavin Schmidt , James Hansen , Michael Oppenheimer Kevin, I didn't mean to offend you. But what you said was "we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment". Now you say "we are no where close to knowing where energy is going". In my eyes these are two different things -- the second relates to our level of understanding, and I agree that this is still lacking. Tom. ++++++++++++++++++ Kevin Trenberth wrote: > Hi Tom > How come you do not agree with a statement that says we are no where > close to knowing where energy is going or whether clouds are changing to > make the planet brighter. We are not close to balancing the energy > budget. The fact that we can not account for what is happening in the > climate system makes any consideration of geoengineering quite hopeless > as we will never be able to tell if it is successful or not! It is a > travesty! > Kevin > > Tom Wigley wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> At the risk of overload, here are some notes of mine on the recent >> lack of warming. I look at this in two ways. The first is to look at >> the difference between the observed and expected anthropogenic trend >> relative to the pdf for unforced variability. The second is to remove >> ENSO, volcanoes and TSI variations from the observed data. >> >> Both methods show that what we are seeing is not unusual. The second >> method leaves a significant warming over the past decade. >> >> These sums complement Kevin's energy work. >> >> Kevin says ... "The fact is that we can't account for the lack of >> warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can't". I do not >> agree with this. >> >> Tom. >> >> +++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> Kevin Trenberth wrote: >>> Hi all >>> Well I have my own article on where the heck is global warming? We >>> are asking that here in Boulder where we have broken records the past >>> two days for the coldest days on record. We had 4 inches of snow. >>> The high the last 2 days was below 30F and the normal is 69F, and it >>> smashed the previous records for these days by 10F. The low was >>> about 18F and also a record low, well below the previous record low. >>> This is January weather (see the Rockies baseball playoff game was >>> canceled on saturday and then played last night in below freezing >>> weather). >>> >>> Trenberth, K. E., 2009: An imperative for climate change planning: >>> tracking Earth's global energy. /Current Opinion in Environmental >>> Sustainability/, *1*, 19-27, doi:10.1016/j.cosust.2009.06.001. [PDF] >>> >>> (A PDF of the published version can be obtained from the author.) >>> >>> The fact is that we can't account for the lack of warming at the >>> moment and it is a travesty that we can't. The CERES data published >>> in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even >>> more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing system is >>> inadequate. >>> >>> That said there is a LOT of nonsense about the PDO. People like CPC >>> are tracking PDO on a monthly basis but it is highly correlated with >>> ENSO. Most of what they are seeing is the change in ENSO not real >>> PDO. It surely isn't decadal. The PDO is already reversing with the >>> switch to El Nino. The PDO index became positive in September for >>> first time since Sept 2007. see >>> http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/GODAS/ocean_briefing_gif/global_ocean_monitoring_current.ppt >>> >>> >>> Kevin >>> >>> Michael Mann wrote: >>>> extremely disappointing to see something like this appear on BBC. >>>> its particularly odd, since climate is usually Richard Black's beat >>>> at BBC (and he does a great job). from what I can tell, this guy was >>>> formerly a weather person at the Met Office. >>>> We may do something about this on RealClimate, but meanwhile it >>>> might be appropriate for the Met Office to have a say about this, I >>>> might ask Richard Black what's up here? >>>> >>>> mike >>>> >>>> On Oct 12, 2009, at 2:32 AM, Stephen H Schneider wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all. Any of you want to explain decadal natural variability and >>>>> signal to noise and sampling errors to this new "IPCC Lead Author" >>>>> from the BBC? As we enter an El Nino year and as soon, as the >>>>> sunspots get over their temporary--presumed--vacation worth a few >>>>> tenths of a Watt per meter squared reduced forcing, there will >>>>> likely be another dramatic upward spike like 1992-2000. I heard >>>>> someone--Mike Schlesinger maybe??--was willing to bet alot of money >>>>> on it happening in next 5 years?? Meanwhile the past 10 years of >>>>> global mean temperature trend stasis still saw what, 9 of the >>>>> warmest in reconstructed 1000 year record and Greenland and the sea >>>>> ice of the North in big retreat?? Some of you observational folks >>>>> probably do need to straighten this out as my student suggests >>>>> below. Such "fun", Cheers, Steve >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Stephen H. Schneider >>>>> Melvin and Joan Lane Professor for Interdisciplinary Environmental >>>>> Studies, >>>>> Professor, Department of Biology and >>>>> Senior Fellow, Woods Institute for the Environment >>>>> Mailing address: >>>>> Yang & Yamazaki Environment & Energy Building - MC 4205 >>>>> 473 Via Ortega >>>>> Ph: 650 725 9978 >>>>> F: 650 725 4387 >>>>> Websites: climatechange.net >>>>> patientfromhell.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Forwarded Message ----- >>>>> From: "Narasimha D. Rao" >>>> > >>>>> To: "Stephen H Schneider" > >>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 10:25:53 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >>>>> Pacific >>>>> Subject: BBC U-turn on climate >>>>> >>>>> Steve, >>>>> You may be aware of this already. Paul Hudson, BBCís reporter on >>>>> climate change, on Friday wrote that thereís been no warming since >>>>> 1998, and that pacific oscillations will force cooling for the next >>>>> 20-30 years. It is not outrageously biased in presentation as are >>>>> other skepticsí views. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8299079.stm >>>>> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100013173/the-bbcs-amazing-u-turn-on-climate-change/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> BBC has significant influence on public opinion outside the US. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Do you think this merits an op-ed response in the BBC from a >>>>> scientist? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Narasimha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> PhD Candidate, >>>>> Emmett Interdisciplinary Program in Environment and Resources (E-IPER) >>>>> Stanford University >>>>> Tel: 415-812-7560 >>>>> >>>>>
31 posted on 11/19/2009 10:26:09 PM PST by abigkahuna (Step on up folks and see the "Strange Thing" only a thin dollar, babies free)
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To: abigkahuna

I am going to convert all this to a threaded form. Too hard to follow.


32 posted on 11/19/2009 10:27:39 PM PST by dila813
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To: abigkahuna

Open the files in Notepad++, these files are in unix format, that is why they are hard to read.


33 posted on 11/19/2009 10:29:52 PM PST by dila813
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To: dila813

Ping


34 posted on 11/19/2009 10:31:42 PM PST by phs3 (FUBO)
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To: abigkahuna
>>> >>>

Kevin

Michael Mann wrote:

extremely disappointing to see something like this appear on BBC. >>>> its particularly odd, since climate is usually Richard Black's beat >>>> at BBC (and he does a great job). from what I can tell, this guy was >>>> formerly a weather person at the Met Office. >>>> We may do something about this on RealClimate, but meanwhile it >>>> might be appropriate for the Met Office to have a say about this, I >>>> might ask Richard Black what's up here?

mike

On Oct 12, 2009, at 2:32 AM, Stephen H Schneider wrote:

Hi all. Any of you want to explain decadal natural variability and >>>>> signal to noise and sampling errors to this new "IPCC Lead Author" >>>>> from the BBC? As we enter an El Nino year and as soon, as the >>>>> sunspots get over their temporary--presumed--vacation worth a few >>>>> tenths of a Watt per meter squared reduced forcing, there will >>>>> likely be another dramatic upward spike like 1992-2000. I heard >>>>> someone--Mike Schlesinger maybe??--was willing to bet alot of money >>>>> on it happening in next 5 years?? Meanwhile the past 10 years of >>>>> global mean temperature trend stasis still saw what, 9 of the >>>>> warmest in reconstructed 1000 year record and Greenland and the sea >>>>> ice of the North in big retreat?? Some of you observational folks >>>>> probably do need to straighten this out as my student suggests >>>>> below. Such "fun", Cheers, Steve >>>>> >>>>> >

35 posted on 11/19/2009 10:32:45 PM PST by abigkahuna (Step on up folks and see the "Strange Thing" only a thin dollar, babies free)
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast

Thumbs DOWN on Spybot. “SuperAntiSpyware” (superantispyware.com) and Malwarebytes’ “Anti-Malware” (www.malwarebytes.org) is king. These are free with upgrade versions available. And no this isn’t a paid advertisement, just simply referring the best two virus checkers that actually work and work thoroughly.


36 posted on 11/19/2009 10:33:38 PM PST by historyrepeatz
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To: abigkahuna
Heck I hurt my own eyes... I have only been here for like ten years, how can I convert that to a readable format without going through each individual line with "

"?

37 posted on 11/19/2009 10:34:30 PM PST by abigkahuna (Step on up folks and see the "Strange Thing" only a thin dollar, babies free)
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To: abigkahuna

Use Notepad ++, these files are in Unix format.

They are easy to read


38 posted on 11/19/2009 10:37:08 PM PST by dila813
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To: abigkahuna
From: Tom Wigley To: Phil Jones Subject: LAND vs OCEAN Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:36:15 -0700 We probably need to say more about this. Land warming since 1980 has been twice the ocean warming -- and skeptics might claim that this proves that urban warming is real and important. See attached note. Comments? Tom Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\LANDvsOCEAN.doc"
39 posted on 11/19/2009 10:39:26 PM PST by dila813
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To: abigkahuna

As I see it, there are two key issues here.

First, the CEI and Pat Michaels are arguing that Phil Jones and
colleagues at the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) willfully and
intentionally “destroyed” some of the raw surface temperature data used
in the construction of the gridded surface temperature datasets.

Second, the CEI and Pat Michaels contend that the CRU surface
temperature datasets provided the sole basis for IPCC “discernible human
influence” conclusions.


40 posted on 11/19/2009 10:48:15 PM PST by dila813
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To: abigkahuna

there are alot of gems here


41 posted on 11/19/2009 10:48:49 PM PST by dila813
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To: rfp1234

Another gem,

The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a
travesty that we can’t. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008
shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing
system is inadequate.


42 posted on 11/19/2009 10:52:03 PM PST by dila813
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To: abigkahuna

I just downloaded it with the Bittorrent app in Winders Vista. When I clicked on the link it asked if I wanted to “open” it with Bittorrent. The first couple of times I said “no” and elected to save the file. I got the same 19K download you did, then nada.

The third time I said “yes” to the question and it came down in about 5 minutes total for me. It opened up the Bitorrent app and then gave me the progress of the d/l.


43 posted on 11/19/2009 10:52:21 PM PST by coldoc
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To: coldoc

Do they discuss how we’re also responsible for wiping out the Dinosaurs?


44 posted on 11/19/2009 10:56:45 PM PST by historyrepeatz
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To: dila813

Going through some of the other stuff, I found a pdf concerning a investigation that one of the “scientists” might have fabricated results... very intereting indeed.... Under documents “ 080214_SUNYA_draft.pdf” Unforunately using my mac I don’t have an application to open .pro files There seems to be a file called “rashit” that I can not open either—its in the “kbtree” file in documents.


45 posted on 11/19/2009 10:57:52 PM PST by abigkahuna (Step on up folks and see the "Strange Thing" only a thin dollar, babies free)
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To: dila813
"The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing system is inadequate."

Whoa.
46 posted on 11/19/2009 10:57:55 PM PST by RightOnTheLeftCoast (Obama: running for re-election in '12 or running for Mahdi now? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi])
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To: abigkahuna

check this out:

Its part of the attack of the corporate-funded attack machine, i.e. its a direct and highly
intended outcome of a highly orchestrated, heavily-funded corporate attack campaign. We saw
it over the summer w/ the health insurance industry trying to defeat Obama’s health plan,
we’ll see it now as the U.S. Senate moves on to focus on the cap & trade bill that passed
congress this summer. It isn’t coincidental that the original McIntyre and McKitrick E&E
paper w/ press release came out the day before the U.S. senate was considering the McCain
Lieberman climate bill in ‘05.


47 posted on 11/19/2009 10:58:15 PM PST by dila813
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To: abigkahuna

those are code, you need to install the executable and run it from linux.


48 posted on 11/19/2009 10:59:20 PM PST by dila813
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast

yes, I fell off my chair, there is alot more on that one. You have to read more, that is just a snippet


49 posted on 11/19/2009 11:00:07 PM PST by dila813
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To: dila813
"Its part of the attack of the corporate-funded attack machine, i.e. its a direct and highly intended outcome of a highly orchestrated, heavily-funded corporate attack campaign."

Right out of DU. Astonishing.
50 posted on 11/19/2009 11:14:26 PM PST by RightOnTheLeftCoast (Obama: running for re-election in '12 or running for Mahdi now? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi])
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