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EPA Finding Gives It Effective Control of the Economy
The Corner on National Review Online ^ | 12/07/09 | Iain Murray

Posted on 12/07/2009 10:14:03 AM PST by TonyInOhio

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To: CottShop

I’m for whatever it takes. Peaceful is nice.


51 posted on 12/07/2009 2:00:15 PM PST by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: CottShop
I don’t beleive that even if we get socked with copenhagen mandates that it wil lbe enough to motivate enough peopel to stand up agaisnt this fraud

Fix your bayonet and keep your powder dry. You may be called sooner than you think.

52 posted on 12/07/2009 2:02:13 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: ought-six

The insidiousness of the EPA’s declaration that CO2 is a ‘danger’ lies in the fact that they will claim that the government has a ‘responsibility to protect it’s citizens from danger’ and thqt because CO2 is a danger, they must act in order to protect us- just like when they went after tobacco- the lawyers argued that second hand smoek was so dangerous that smokers needed to be taxed to ‘help pay the healthbills of those affected by second hand smoke’ See how that works?

As I said, we don’t really have an argument against the claim that too much CO2 is dangerous, it can be, and can cause health problems- and these criminals pushing the claim that CO2 is dangerous have us over a barrel- the only difference between this issue and the tobacco one is that instead of goign to court to sue businesses for ‘pulluting the environment’, our government just enforced mandatory fines and taxes on the businesses, and these busiensses were essdentially powerless to stop the extortion

These criminal environmental thugs in congress are very insidious in how they are goign to frame their arguments o nthis issue- I’m not sure there’s even a legal argument agaisnt their claims- this is why I say we’re finished- the TRUTH has lost, and the LIES have won. Our only real hope is that businesses and the people strike and shut down busienss all across America to send a VERY clear message that hurts these criminals where it counts- in their pocketbooks- that we are NOT goign to be criminally coerced and bullied like this..

The tea parties were ok and slightly effective, however, for the most part, even htough it was fairly organized, and represented a pretty good majority voice, our government not only ignored them and went rifght ahead with their socialist agendas, but also pulled chicago thug tactics o nthe tea partiers by sendign in SEIU thugs to int9midate and silence the people.

I dunno- I just hope there is a legal way to stop these criminals but I just don’;t see how it can be unfortunately- hopefully someoen with more legal savvy can weigh in


53 posted on 12/07/2009 2:17:09 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

If these people are serious about reducing CO2 emitions, they could do us all a favor and commit suicide.


54 posted on 12/07/2009 3:51:53 PM PST by conservativebuckeye
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To: CottShop

Those who hate this country have just about succeeded in dooming it. We have just been smacked back into the stone age. Unfortunately, I don’t know how much pain the “public” is willing to bear before things go out of control and there are riots in the streets.
That will be their excuse to lock this country down like we have never seen.
Organize FIRST. Some have seen this coming and are well underway. This is bad. Very bad.


55 posted on 12/07/2009 4:27:35 PM PST by MestaMachine (Your CORE is the path you walk. RINOs don't walk paths, they build roads to nowhere..)
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To: TexasTransplant

“Our government”

“When, in the course of human events, it becomes”


56 posted on 12/07/2009 4:57:42 PM PST by Murp (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: CottShop
well if it comes to that I’m in too- however, it has to be more of an effort than a bunch of loosely organized civilian militias or movements in order to be truly effective-

On the contrary. Loosely organized independant civilian militias would probably be more effective than a concerted single force effort/movement in a CWII scenario.

Loosely organized militias mean that each group follows their own agenda/ideology. If you kill the leader of one group, the movement doesn't stop and others live to fight another day.... ie if you cut off the head of the snake, it will not die. This prolongs the fighting and makes each passing day political poison for the "offending party"....in this case Congress, POTUS, EPA et al.

They either have to cede to the militias and relinquish their power (repeal offending policy/legislation) to stay in office/maintain order, or they have to use force to suppress the movements. The second option will only cause more people to be sympathetic to the cause. This is why insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan last(ed) as long.

So long as the militias looked out for the other civilians and did not attack the populace at large (as the insurgents in Iraq did) the militias will gain and maintain (semi-)popular support.

Additionally, smaller autonomous organizations are more difficult to track than one large group. More resources are devoted to tracking supply lines for 50 groups of 10-15 people than tracking 2 groups of 250 people.

I disagree with your belief that if people all banded together and stopped working/paying taxes this could be settled peacefully. More than likely this would lead to food riots and a breakdown in law and order. There is also the mentality of "I'm not gonna do it unless I can be sure you're gonna do it." And then you have to worry about the other capitalists out there that will realize the opening in the market and sieze the opportunity. While Atlas Shrugged had its faults, Ayn Rand alluded to this when after each business person vanished, another stepped in to stake his claim.

I think the Tea Party movement is the closest we have to a unified effort of peaceful protest. I also think some catalyst (Reichstag event/Boston Massacre) will need to occur before individuals begin to effectively take up arms. Pray it doesn't happen. But, I picture the days of the Federals facing off with the Confederates long passed..... it will be this cell, or the next, conducting hit-and-run attacks against whatever law/security enforcement and government agencies remain. I'm sure they would provide loose mutual support to each other; however, suspicion would also prevent open large scale cooperation.

This isn't 1775 or 1861 where the weaponry is pretty much equal. Small arms in the hands of private citizens doesn't square head to head against fixed wing aircraft, rotary wing aircraft, sattalites, UAVs, armored vehicles, riot control agents, automatic weapons, mortars, artillery etc etc.... in this instance small militias and guerilla tactics level the playing field.

Anyhow, this is nothing more than my two sense.

57 posted on 12/07/2009 5:06:09 PM PST by Repeat Offender (While the wicked stand confounded, call me with Thy Saints surrounded)
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To: BenLurkin

This is an a move to turn detailed regulation of all U.S. agriculture, transportation and industry over to international “authorities” with no Congressional legislation, no Senate confirmation and no input of any kind from American voters.

Don’t people see what is going on here?

The American Revolution of 1776 was set off by far less serious provocations than this.


58 posted on 12/07/2009 5:25:14 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. " George Orwell)
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To: AdmSmith; Berosus; bigheadfred; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; ...
Under the Clean Air Act, an "endangerment" finding means that the EPA will have to grant a waiver to those states (such as California) that want to regulate greenhouse-gas emissions from automobiles. The EPA has already agreed to do so. When "pollutants" that "endanger" human health and welfare are regulated, the EPA must expand its regulatory program to include "stationary" sources. The EPA has already announced that it will do so. This is where Obama wants to get off the "endangerment" train, with the ability to regulate stationary and mobile sources (i.e., industry and cars) with almost complete discretion. These "endangerment" powers give the president tremendous leverage in a number of complex negotiations.
Back in the pre-Internet days, when Al Gore was still rusted shut in the Enchanted Forest and begging for oil, people used to have random quote macros and stuff built into their term software, so posting on BBSes would have a seriously diverse collection of signature lines. One of these (which I couldn't find today when I looked) went something like this (and I'd love to know the author):
59 posted on 12/07/2009 5:51:45 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: TonyInOhio
Won't be long before we get a home meter for CO2 emissions. Then will come the fines that will be paid to Earth Gods at the UN.

What is happening to this country? Political Correctness has run amok.

60 posted on 12/07/2009 6:17:25 PM PST by reader25
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To: TonyInOhio
Photobucket
61 posted on 12/07/2009 6:28:44 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: JPG

Concur, now where might these lawyers be situated?


62 posted on 12/07/2009 6:45:11 PM PST by hyperconservative (Fight 2 Win.)
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To: Windflier

Right-o!!


63 posted on 12/07/2009 6:47:54 PM PST by hyperconservative (Fight 2 Win. Never surrender.)
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To: TonyInOhio

Taken a step further, each human being is producing CO2, therefore the EPA can dictate the size of gatherings (no tea parties - too much pollution), the size of your brood (too many children in the hospital at one time will create a hazard, so we will limit this highly dangerous toxin by issuing licenses to reproduce), and eventually the years of life you may live (as soon as you reach your allotted CO2 level, you lost all health care intervention).

This is not just industry, it’s 100% control. And they will incrementally get there a step at a time and people will get on this forum and bitch - while continuing to watch it happen.

BTW, Should an asteroid hit three weeks before the 2010 election, should a sudden outbreak of the flu sweep the nation in October 2012, should anything happen that would give this administration any reason to suspend our right to vote, it should be taken as a purposeful act of Treason against the People of this Country. The Pentagon should be drawing up contingencies for this occurrence right now. If asked by the media or the CIC why this is necessary, simply show them a mirror and walk away.


64 posted on 12/07/2009 8:11:22 PM PST by dannyboy72a (The President of the United States should not be selling me insurance or lightbulbs)
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To: Repeat Offender

[[On the contrary. Loosely organized independant civilian militias would probably be more effective than a concerted single force effort/movement in a CWII scenario.]]

Well I wasn’t talking so much about just one unit with only one leader- but more of a concerted effort to organize all the independent groups or militias- kinda liek what we have now with government beign hte central, and states being independent, but committed to hte whole- when this works as it’s suppsoed to, it’s very effective

[[This isn’t 1775 or 1861 where the weaponry is pretty much equal. Small arms in the hands of private citizens doesn’t square head to head against fixed wing aircraft, rotary wing aircraft, sattalites, UAVs, armored vehicles, riot control agents, automatic weapons, mortars, artillery etc etc.... in this instance small militias and guerilla tactics level the playing field.]]

Yep- good points-

[[I think the Tea Party movement is the closest we have to a unified effort of peaceful protest. I also think some catalyst (Reichstag event/Boston Massacre) will need to occur before individuals begin to effectively take up arms. Pray it doesn’t happen.]]

In my opinion, the only thing that will get the government’s ful lattention is if they are hit in their pocketbooks and wallets- if they don’t think it’ll hurt them too bad financially, then they’ll simply do what they have been like ignoring or maligning and insulting us and the tea parties- I think the only thing that will grab their attention is to step it up a notch- Europe has the right idea- when their farmers start getting jerked aroudn by the government- ALL the farmers band together and go on strike- effectively stopping hte funneling of taxes to the government ,and shuttign down progress till things get resolved

the tea parties are a good start- and I fully supported, and continue to support them, however, congresses expressed intentions, and Obama’s expressed intentions concernign both copenhagen ,and the recent EPA announcement make it clear that our govenrment is NOT goign to listen anymore UNLESS they get stung in the wallets


65 posted on 12/07/2009 8:14:37 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: MestaMachine

[[Those who hate this country have just about succeeded in dooming it. We have just been smacked back into the stone age. Unfortunately, I don’t know how much pain the “public” is willing to bear before things go out of control and there are riots in the streets.
]]

You are correct, and my personal feelign is that it’s goign to take a whole lot more before we say enough is enough- We’ve had it too good for too long, and I think not many people are willing to sacrifice comfort and security by goign out on a limb unless it’s absolutely necessary- (it shoudl be obvious that it’s absolutely necessary NOW, but I think it;’s goign to take much more pain/loss of rights and income unfortunately)

[[That will be their excuse to lock this country down like we have never seen.]]

That’s EXACTLY what I was thinking today when I heard the news of Iran locking down the country durign hte aniversary of the protests- I thought- ‘How much longer before our govenrment starts that crap here?”

[[This is bad. Very bad.]]

YES it is- very bad indeed- and hwat gets me is how non chalant most people are concerning this massive massive criminal fraud beign perpetrated agaisnt us. The public was like “Ohhhh- Bernie Madoff- what a scam artist- String him up” but when it comes to us being scammed far far greater by our own govenrment? They are practically silent? And barely even mention this serious crime? That’s why I say I think it’s go9ign to take a LOT more pain to get us finally motivated-


66 posted on 12/07/2009 8:35:00 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: TexasFreeper2009
The United States government just made breathing illegal...

THINK ABOUT THAT.

Only exhaling. At least for now inhaling is still allowed.

67 posted on 12/07/2009 10:34:57 PM PST by Antonello (Oh my God, don't shoot the banana!)
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To: TonyInOhio

don’t worry. they’ll award indulgences to favored classes, who will in turn rent them out.


68 posted on 12/07/2009 11:21:54 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (free enterprise (the first word is a verb))
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To: CottShop

They just made breathing illegal without a permit.


69 posted on 12/08/2009 2:11:49 AM PST by ebshumidors (vet, rifleman, 'nuff said.)
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To: All

EPA = QANGO

Quasi - Autonomous - NonGovernmental - Organization

(well, it is a government org, but it has reasonable autonomy from THIS congress ...)

Let’s face it, the EPA has organizational momentum. They had to announce this finding now because (1) Zero wants to look good overseas and (2) the recent disclosure of the greatest criminal scientific fraud of the modern age has legs and will only erode their ability to sustain such a finding as time goes on.

If the EPA can run fast enough ... then they can accomplish the Socialist take-over that Zero seeks.

The children at the EPA (and in the white house) will only see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. Giant global dittos for those in Copenhagen this week. The levels of hypocracy at this giant worship service for 15,000 may not be exceeded for a long time.

Now the fight is on; the rule of law is almost ready to crumble in America (e.g.):

a) TARP
b) repurposing TARP (for “jobs” simulus?)
c) legislating from the EPA
d) (about to) legislate from the heathcare Czar
e) issuing rules and policy by unaccountable Czars
f) Congress refusal to uphold their constitutional duty (too many examples to cite)
g) US leverage over states
h) US leverage over individuals
i) loss of individual freedoms clearly protected by the Constitution and Bill of Rights

Every American should consider what they hold dear and what line in the sand they will draw. Consider what is worth your limited time. Consider what will build-up rewards that last. I recommend we get back to the basics of life - God, Country & Truth.


70 posted on 12/08/2009 6:12:40 AM PST by Nobel_1 (bring on the Patriots!)
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To: TonyInOhio
Photobucket
71 posted on 12/08/2009 6:19:58 AM PST by Jackknife (Chuck Norris grinds his coffee with his teeth, and boils his water with his rage)
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