Skip to comments.EPA Finding Gives It Effective Control of the Economy
Posted on 12/07/2009 10:14:03 AM PST by TonyInOhio
click here to read article
Actually, there is another - although we haven't had the stones to use it in 233 years.
I can’t wait for EPA bureaucrats to show up in farm and ranch country to count cows and pigs for a per head fart license.
“SUE the bastards” will not work. They own the courts, they own congress, they own the White House, and they own the media. We now have people voting who have been spoon feed the man made global warming BS since they were born. No amount of facts will change their mind. It would be like telling a born again Christian there is no God.
“Angry and frustrated- knowing there is nothign we are goign to be able to do to stop these criminals”
Oh, I don’t know about that. Remember something that begins with the words: “When in the course of human events....”
I think that document is being dusted off and seriously studied. There are still some patriots in this country, and they are realizing — though, kind of late in the game, but still with some time on the clock — that we are pretty much at the point where it will be necessary to “pledge...our lives, our fortunes, our sacred honor,” and embark on the road to recovering America and restoring its promise of freedom and liberty.
Count me in.
The NRO article does not cite what part of the Clean Air Act would force the EPA to shut down users of conventional energy. Why couldn't they choose to regulate the "big" energy users and choose not to regulate the "smaller" ones, at least not right away? (Why would they choose not to regulate smaller users? To avoid an economic crash that would hurt Dems politically.)
But even in that case, that regulation would still raise electric, natural gas, and gasoline prices.
I am hoping this will be another negative for the Dems in Nov. next year.
Zero (and his Czars), the IRS and the EPA now run our Government
[[Dont know if Im madder at those who are moving this agenda to destroy our country or those who are in position to do something about it.]]
I’m with you on that- those who are in a position to stop it who do nothing (essentially nothing- lawsuits shoudl be immediately filed, investigations demanded, and the point shoudl be made absolutely clear that these criminal fraudsters do NOT have the evidence to mandate ANY taxes, fines, Carbon credit mandates etc, and an immediate cease and disist order shoudl be given UNTIL they can scientifically PROVE once and for all, beyond any doubt, that man is to blame- The fact is that they can NOT prove it, and there is absolutely NO proof that man caused warming- I am equally angry at those who are in positions to fully expose and stop this madness aren’t takign hte appropriate measures to put an end to htis once and for all- it’s just like the RINOS who compromise with democrats and betray their constituents- this is a VERY serious issue, and those in positions to stop this fraud are NOT takign it seriously, and we are all paying hte price-
Our congress shoudl demand that obama boycott copenhagen because there isn’t ANY evidence to support the claims that man is to blame, and there is NO WAY we should be saddling the citizens and busiensses with this financial burden that wil lbe based on a lie- The fact is that ‘man-caused’ global warming is a LIE- and noone seems to be takign the appropriate measures to stop this blatant lie in it’s tracks— all they’re doing is criticising the evidnece, and hoping that the democrats and con artists wil lgo “Golly, maybe we’ve been duped, and should look into htis before takign anymore action’
This is NOT goign to happen- EVER! and the ONLY way to stop this fraud is to take serious legal action to stop it- those who perpetrated this fraud shoudl be shaking i ntheir boots for gettign caught scamming we the people, but instead, they know they are imune from prosecution, and that nothign serious will be doen agaisnt them, and they throw their fraud in our face and essentially tell us ‘screw you all- we’re doign whatever we want[’
[[Review American history and re-think what you’re saying. There are solutions. ]]
Yes there are solutions- however, look back over the last few decades- noone is willing to take hte necessary actions to stop this fraud- we’ve just been accepting whatever mandates cognress imposes on us, and just been hoping it ‘doesn’t get much worse’- little by little, they’ve been chipping away at us, and we simply take it. I don’t beleive that even if we get socked with copenhagen mandates that it wil lbe enough to motivate enough peopel to stand up agaisnt this fraud
[[Be careful. When I posted similar comments on FR, I was criticized.]]
Well, I understand that people don’t want to cede that it’s over, and hope that somethign can still be done- but this last blow fro mthe EPA declaring CO2 a poison, and dangerous, is the final blow- this fraud most likely can’t be stopped now- we had a chance when they were claiming man was to blame for warming, because hte evidence did NOT support the claims, however, now that the terminology has been changed, we can’t really argue that too much CO2 causes problems, because it does- and they will use this to clobber us into submission because we don’t really have a concrete argument to coutner it- all we can do is state that CO2 levels aren’t anywhere near the ‘crisis level’ that they claim, but we’ll simpyl be ignored, just like al lthe scientists who spoke out against ‘man-caused global warming’ were ignored all those years- We had IPCC scientists coming out and telling us it was a lie, and noone listened- none of hte policy makers listened-
well if it comes to that I’m in too- however, it has to be more of an effort than a bunch of loosely organized civilian militias or movements in order to be truly effective-
We the people could stop this IF we had the will to do so peacefully by banding together and refusing to pay the extortion fees imposed on us- but it would take businesses all across the coutnry banding together, comitting to NOT working, and being one massive strike- refuse to do busienss until our government begins to listen to we the people for once i ntheir life- instead of tryign to ram through their socialist agenda
I’m for whatever it takes. Peaceful is nice.
Fix your bayonet and keep your powder dry. You may be called sooner than you think.
The insidiousness of the EPA’s declaration that CO2 is a ‘danger’ lies in the fact that they will claim that the government has a ‘responsibility to protect it’s citizens from danger’ and thqt because CO2 is a danger, they must act in order to protect us- just like when they went after tobacco- the lawyers argued that second hand smoek was so dangerous that smokers needed to be taxed to ‘help pay the healthbills of those affected by second hand smoke’ See how that works?
As I said, we don’t really have an argument against the claim that too much CO2 is dangerous, it can be, and can cause health problems- and these criminals pushing the claim that CO2 is dangerous have us over a barrel- the only difference between this issue and the tobacco one is that instead of goign to court to sue businesses for ‘pulluting the environment’, our government just enforced mandatory fines and taxes on the businesses, and these busiensses were essdentially powerless to stop the extortion
These criminal environmental thugs in congress are very insidious in how they are goign to frame their arguments o nthis issue- I’m not sure there’s even a legal argument agaisnt their claims- this is why I say we’re finished- the TRUTH has lost, and the LIES have won. Our only real hope is that businesses and the people strike and shut down busienss all across America to send a VERY clear message that hurts these criminals where it counts- in their pocketbooks- that we are NOT goign to be criminally coerced and bullied like this..
The tea parties were ok and slightly effective, however, for the most part, even htough it was fairly organized, and represented a pretty good majority voice, our government not only ignored them and went rifght ahead with their socialist agendas, but also pulled chicago thug tactics o nthe tea partiers by sendign in SEIU thugs to int9midate and silence the people.
I dunno- I just hope there is a legal way to stop these criminals but I just don’;t see how it can be unfortunately- hopefully someoen with more legal savvy can weigh in
If these people are serious about reducing CO2 emitions, they could do us all a favor and commit suicide.
Those who hate this country have just about succeeded in dooming it. We have just been smacked back into the stone age. Unfortunately, I don’t know how much pain the “public” is willing to bear before things go out of control and there are riots in the streets.
That will be their excuse to lock this country down like we have never seen.
Organize FIRST. Some have seen this coming and are well underway. This is bad. Very bad.
“When, in the course of human events, it becomes”
On the contrary. Loosely organized independant civilian militias would probably be more effective than a concerted single force effort/movement in a CWII scenario.
Loosely organized militias mean that each group follows their own agenda/ideology. If you kill the leader of one group, the movement doesn't stop and others live to fight another day.... ie if you cut off the head of the snake, it will not die. This prolongs the fighting and makes each passing day political poison for the "offending party"....in this case Congress, POTUS, EPA et al.
They either have to cede to the militias and relinquish their power (repeal offending policy/legislation) to stay in office/maintain order, or they have to use force to suppress the movements. The second option will only cause more people to be sympathetic to the cause. This is why insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan last(ed) as long.
So long as the militias looked out for the other civilians and did not attack the populace at large (as the insurgents in Iraq did) the militias will gain and maintain (semi-)popular support.
Additionally, smaller autonomous organizations are more difficult to track than one large group. More resources are devoted to tracking supply lines for 50 groups of 10-15 people than tracking 2 groups of 250 people.
I disagree with your belief that if people all banded together and stopped working/paying taxes this could be settled peacefully. More than likely this would lead to food riots and a breakdown in law and order. There is also the mentality of "I'm not gonna do it unless I can be sure you're gonna do it." And then you have to worry about the other capitalists out there that will realize the opening in the market and sieze the opportunity. While Atlas Shrugged had its faults, Ayn Rand alluded to this when after each business person vanished, another stepped in to stake his claim.
I think the Tea Party movement is the closest we have to a unified effort of peaceful protest. I also think some catalyst (Reichstag event/Boston Massacre) will need to occur before individuals begin to effectively take up arms. Pray it doesn't happen. But, I picture the days of the Federals facing off with the Confederates long passed..... it will be this cell, or the next, conducting hit-and-run attacks against whatever law/security enforcement and government agencies remain. I'm sure they would provide loose mutual support to each other; however, suspicion would also prevent open large scale cooperation.
This isn't 1775 or 1861 where the weaponry is pretty much equal. Small arms in the hands of private citizens doesn't square head to head against fixed wing aircraft, rotary wing aircraft, sattalites, UAVs, armored vehicles, riot control agents, automatic weapons, mortars, artillery etc etc.... in this instance small militias and guerilla tactics level the playing field.
Anyhow, this is nothing more than my two sense.
This is an a move to turn detailed regulation of all U.S. agriculture, transportation and industry over to international “authorities” with no Congressional legislation, no Senate confirmation and no input of any kind from American voters.
Don’t people see what is going on here?
The American Revolution of 1776 was set off by far less serious provocations than this.
Under the Clean Air Act, an "endangerment" finding means that the EPA will have to grant a waiver to those states (such as California) that want to regulate greenhouse-gas emissions from automobiles. The EPA has already agreed to do so. When "pollutants" that "endanger" human health and welfare are regulated, the EPA must expand its regulatory program to include "stationary" sources. The EPA has already announced that it will do so. This is where Obama wants to get off the "endangerment" train, with the ability to regulate stationary and mobile sources (i.e., industry and cars) with almost complete discretion. These "endangerment" powers give the president tremendous leverage in a number of complex negotiations.Back in the pre-Internet days, when Al Gore was still rusted shut in the Enchanted Forest and begging for oil, people used to have random quote macros and stuff built into their term software, so posting on BBSes would have a seriously diverse collection of signature lines. One of these (which I couldn't find today when I looked) went something like this (and I'd love to know the author):
What is happening to this country? Political Correctness has run amok.
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