Posted on 12/07/2009 10:15:22 AM PST by sevinufnine
Hmm I read the article and don’t see where this happened in the military. Further the military uses the UCMJ and its members are outside the US Constitution.
With the Navy Seals and Haditha we can see how well the military justice system works.
A sentence to punishment for punishment's sake is a valid reasoning for sentencing.
She’s already doing that on her own. There is a network of people who have done the same thing and they are working on the issue. But there’s isn’t a target audience. People don’t think this will ever happen to them. All they can do is go public and say “It happened to us and it can happen to you”.
One of the freepers in a previous case blamed tinted windows in the back of minivans and SUV’s.
“A sentence to punishment for punishment’s sake is a valid reasoning for sentencing.”
Yes it is, in some cases it is not needed. These are usually ugly cases with no intent by the parent. If the parent was willfully neglectful then I could see jail time.
If its a case of stupid I don’t see how 5 years in jail time is worse punishment than the loss of a child. Not to mention the cost of keeping this person in jail for those 5 years.
BTW, would you want to be the person picking which rapist, murderer or drug dealer to let out of jail so you have room for this woman?
” I have 2 grown kids and I never managed to “forget” where I left them. Not once.”
Was it law when they were little that they had to be in a car seat in the rear seat of your car? I think that contributes to a lot/most of these tragedies.
But that’s just it. How do you prove or disprove intent?
We had an incident here just a couple of days ago.
A 15 year old boy went hunting with his dad and his uncle.
Uncle heard a rustle in the bushes and shot his nephew in the back and killed him. It was most likely unintentional.
Should he be punished? I think so.
Well, I can see your points and I am making more of a devil’s advocate style of argument for my perception of negligence here. But I still believe that a legal determination of negligence should have been made. But that’s just me ..
No, but that's because I'm not the one who insists that punishment must include jail/prison time. There are all other forms of punishment, to include no punishment other than the conviction itself for negligent homicide. So I don't see a conflict in wanting a legal determination of guilt for negligence and punishment that does not include jail/prison time.
Here are some other cases I know about:
1. A man is unloading a rifle in his basement. The rifle goes off and kills his daughter in the room above.
2. A man firing an AK-47 at a shooting range misses the target high and the bullet kills a child in a pool at an amusement park a mile away.
3. A man is flying an aircraft, the engine quits, the plane crashes and kills a passenger.
I can prove negligence in all cases even though these were accidents. But there was no intent at all in any case.
I know of another case where a mother left her kids in the car in order to smoke crack. She lost track of time and two of the kids died. I can prove intent to neglect in that case. She knew she was leaving them in the car.
There's a Jewish word, chutzpah...it's often illustrated as a child killing his parents, then throwing himself upon the mercy of the court, because he's an orphan.
Has the word been invented, I wonder, to describe a parent who kills her child through carelessness, then throws herself upon the court/court of public opinion, claiming she's already been punished enough?
Has the word been invented to describe those who peddle this excrement?
It's contemptible...I know there are many so-called adults whose life and world view are composed of "It's all about ME!!!" moments...and they are blind to what I'm saying...
So I say this with as much sadness as anger...it's not just about her.
I would completely agree with you on this, but, unfortunately, "willful neglect" is a legal determination, one that can only be ascertained through legal proceedings. That is the case for most cases involving an "intent" element. Anything else, any non-judicial determination of intent, is just your best guess and "gut feeling" and nothing more.
If I wanted to get rid of my child .. in much the same manner as other parents who have murdered their children .. I guess the safest way is to put them in a car seat and leave them in the sun .. and put on a shocked and tearful face for the camera.
To make these determinations is what a trial is for. If you feel comfortable in asserting that no parent would kill their child in this manner, then you can be so comforted. I, on the other hand, am not.
clearly moreso than you.....
I think the difference is intentional neglect vs accidental neglect. If you take a nap and the kid drowns in a pool, that was an accident. If you leave the child alone so you can go to the store and buy more beer, that is intentional neglect.
Not sure about that. Blacksburg Police seem OK from when I was dispatching in an adjoining jurisdiction. This seems to be a haggling within the court system, not the PD doing a poor job. Lawyers, who she knows, etc. I CANNOT confirm just because she knew someone she got off light, but you know how the rumor mill goes.
ok, so if I am driving down the road...look down for a moment and run over a child killing it...is my being SORRY enough? Or do you prefer I be punished for a mistake I didn’t mean to make?
Yes, I’m well aware of the murder of the 2 kids from VA Tech. As I have posted before..this lady was on HOUSE ARREST which I found just fine under the circumstances as there are other children. MY PROBLEM IS NO CHARGES AT ALL. How about involuntary manslaughter? I’m not saying this wasn’t involuntary...but as I said..if I accidentally ran over a child and killed them...according to your logic, I should not be punished as my saddness would be punishement enough, correct?
Okay, well, let's take that one step further. You get back with your beer, you leave the back door open .. the way to the pool.. you get drunk, and you pass out. While you're passed out, your child leaves through the open back door, falls into the pool and drowns.
That's one scenario: you get back with your beer, you get drunk, your child starts to cry and wail because it's hungry or for whatever reason, you get angry with it and start to feel sorry for yourself and the way your life has turned out, you pick up the child, you throw it into the pool and the child drowns. Later, when you sober up, you realize what you've done and, not wanting to go to jail, you call the police and say that you were asleep and your child fell in the pool and drowned.
Now, in both situations, you're the only one who was there. How do the police/judicial system determine intent? Through a trial, by gathering evidence and presenting that evidence to a jury or a judge. The criminal element of intent can never truly be determined outside of a legal proceeding. Anything else is mere supposition and "gut feelings".
See #51.
yes, it was law 26 yrs ago in Florida when my daughter was born. What on earth does that have to do with anything?
There is nothing to be gained from sending her to prison. She’s not a threat to the general community. She’s not going to learn anything. I don’t think women are going to say “I better not leave my child in the car because I might go to prison”.
We may have to imprison every mother who accidentally suffocates their baby while nursing. I can’t see the purpose in it.
You meant to look down.
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