Posted on 12/25/2009 8:46:05 AM PST by SeekAndFind
Ever since I grew old enough to begin the complicated process of starting to separate the myths we are often fed as children from the truth, I’ve been told that the long-held date of December 25 to celebrate the birth of Christ, Christmas, isn’t really the date upon which Christ was born as a human baby.
I’ve heard the stories that December 25 was just a pagan holiday that Christians “took over” once the Christian religion gained ascendancy in the Roman Empire. I’ve heard that due to the wintery time of year and the shepherds out in the field in the Christmas narrative, December 25 couldn’t be the time of the birth of Christ.
But since our planet has one through great periods of climate change going back even farther than the time of the Roman Empire, I’ve long wondered if there really might be something to the date of December 25.
Then a couple of weeks ago I came across an article in an archaeology magazine that had me thinking about these things afresh.
From Biblical Archaeology Review:
"There is another way to account for the origins of Christmas on December 25: Strange as it may seem, the key to dating Jesus’ birth may lie in the dating of Jesus’ death at Passover. This view was first suggested to the modern world by French scholar Louis Duchesne in the early 20th century and fully developed by American Thomas Talley in more recent years.8 But they were certainly not the first to note a connection between the traditional date of Jesus’ death and his birth.
Around 200 C.E. Tertullian of Carthage reported the calculation that the 14th of Nisan (the day of the crucifixion according to the Gospel of John) in the year Jesus diedc was equivalent to March 25 in the Roman (solar) calendar.9 March 25 is, of course, nine months before December 25; it was later recognized as the Feast of the Annunciation—the commemoration of Jesus’ conception.10 Thus, Jesus was believed to have been conceived and crucified on the same day of the year. Exactly nine months later, Jesus was born, on December 25.
This idea appears in an anonymous Christian treatise titled On Solstices and Equinoxes, which appears to come from fourth-century North Africa. The treatise states: “Therefore our Lord was conceived on the eighth of the kalends of April in the month of March [March 25], which is the day of the passion of the Lord and of his conception. For on that day he was conceived on the same he suffered.”11 Based on this, the treatise dates Jesus’ birth to the winter solstice.
Augustine, too, was familiar with this association. In On the Trinity (c. 399–419) he writes: “For he [Jesus] is believed to have been conceived on the 25th of March, upon which day also he suffered; so the womb of the Virgin, in which he was conceived, where no one of mortals was begotten, corresponds to the new grave in which he was buried, wherein was never man laid, neither before him nor since. But he was born, according to tradition, upon December the 25th.”
This gives me something new to ponder this Christmas, and hopefully you, too. Regardless of whether Christ was born on December 25 or not, there is little room for doubt in history that he was indeed born, and set in motion an unprecedented change on the earth that is still powerfully working today.
Not only history tells me that, but the change Christ has wrought in my own lost, self-destructive life tells me that. As I searched in vain for meaning everywhere but in Christ, there was no reason for my life to continue doing anything other than what it already was–spiraling downward into nothing.
I’m grateful Christ came to earth to live as one of us some 2,000 years ago. I’m grateful he loved me more than his own life, so that he was willing to give his life for me, his enemy. And I’m grateful that he stuck with me through long years of obstinence and rebellion, until I finally allowed him to repair my wreck of a life.
If you haven’t examined the truth-claims of Christ found in the Bible, there is no time better than today. If you haven’t put your faith in Christ and trusted him to remake your existence into the abundant life, there’s no time like today. Let this Christmas be the Christmas your life changed immeasurably for the better; let this Christmas be the Christmas you joined the land of the living.
Mild He lays His glory by
Born that man no more may die
Born to raise the sons of earth
Born to give them second birth
Hark! The herald angels sing
“Glory to the newborn King!”
MORE HERE :
http://www.ivpressonline.com/articles/2009/12/24/probe/probe20091224.txt
Jesus not born on December 25?
Why do we celebrate Christmas as Jesus’ birthday? I saw something on television a while back that said Jesus was actually born in an entirely different season. — Wanting to Know, Imperial County
We don’t think it really matters to the faithful whether Jesus was born on Dec. 25, or whether he was born in the spring, as most appreciate the meaning behind Christmas rather than the facts.
We consulted snopes.com and a few other sites to get their take on the Dec. 25 controversy, and they all basically say the same thing: Nobody knows for sure.
Pastor Dan Bruce of Imperial’s Faith Assembly said, “Because we celebrate the meaning of Jesus’ birth, the day is really kind of irrelevant. Dec. 25 is as good a day as any to celebrate.”
Bruce told us that more than 1,000 years ago the Roman Catholic Church set Dec. 25 as the date to celebrate, and it’s been celebrated that way ever since.
“For us in the evangelical Christian world, we celebrate the meaning of the day rather than they day itself,” he said.
In the early fourth century, Catholic Church leaders wanted to establish a Christian alternative to rival popular winter solstice celebrations, so Dec. 25 was chosen as Christ’s date of birth and the first recorded “Feast of the Nativity” was held in Rome in A.D. 336.
But this wasn’t just some arbitrary date the Catholic Church chose. The Christian historian Sextus Julius Africanus had identified Dec. 25 as Christ’s nativity more than 100 years before the Catholic Church. It was thought that the world was created on the spring equinox, and that four days later, on March 25, light was created. Since the existence of Jesus signaled a beginning of a new era, or new creation, the Biblical chronographers assumed Jesus’ conception would have fallen on March 25, placing his birth in December, nine months later, according to howstuffworks.com
Still, the debate over the placement of the nativity continues. Even the Bible itself leaves it open. Luke 2:8 talks of the shepherds “keeping watch over their flock by night, suggesting the birth actually might have occurred during lambing — the only time of year shepherds watched over their flocks day and night, according to the Web site.
“So the meaning really is that God sent Jesus into the world to make a way to have a relationship with God,” Bruce said, and the date isn’t important.
“I would just love for everyone to realize that the baby born in the manger can still change your life today,” he said.
Think about it: Does it matter?
The exact date doesn’t matter the slightest bit.
RE: Think about it: Does it matter?
NO IT DOES NOT.
But here are more factoids to ponder anyway ....
Biblical scholars have been saying for centuries that Jesus was not born in December. I know it, too, just from looking at the behavior of shepherds around the world. Shepherds do not stay out all night in December (except in New Zealand, since December is summer there). Not only will the shepherds catch cold, but the sheep do not graze during winter.
Also, There is no mention in the Bible of three kings from the Orient. First of all, Jesus was already born in the Orient, or more precisely, the Middle East. What is mentioned are magi or wise men. Even if they had come from out of town, they did not get to see Jesus until his presentation at the Temple. (Read the Bible!) In fact, when the magi came to pay him a courtesy call, Herod figured out that Jesus was most likely almost a year old by then; otherwise, he would have ordered only newborn babies killed and not all little children.
Anyway, for me -— On Christmas Day, then, I do not celebrate the birthday of Jesus. More properly, Christmas Day would be the feastday of Jesus, the day when I agree to commemorate the coming of the Savior.
To a believer...
Everyday is Christmas.
And Easter too. :-)
Probably not.
Time, as we know it, is measured by the rotations of the Earth on its axis, and by the revolutions of the Earth, around the Sun.
In the entire Universe, if there is life elsewhere, there measurement of time must surely be different.
And, in Heaven, what need does God have of time?
The GOAL of the Early Church was to make as many converts as possible, as quickly as possible.
Jesus never taught that the customs, rituals and traditions of Jews or Gentiles should be abandoned, as long as those things from the past did not conflict with His teachings.
The Bible is a gift from God, but NOT a complete gift. The Bible was edited and published by the Church, centuries after the original authors, of the separate Books, had died.
Much that was taught, by Jesus and the Apostles, was NEVER written down anywhere. Much of what WAS written has been lost.
For this reason, many of us refer to much of our faith as a “mystery” -— in fact, humility is required of Christians, and it is impossible for any human to comprehend the entirety of God and Creation.
I appreciate your thoughts, but, tradition and custom are no threat to the Faith, or to the faithful.
And, time and dates are pretty much meaningless.
Nobody cared when people were born back than. They cared more of the day people died. I have read that Jesus was likely born in March, April, or July. Easter is celebrated in March or April and it is the rebirth of Jesus. So, yes, we do celebrate Christmas again on Easter. As for December 25th, there were many celebrations around that time, from Pagan celebration of Winter Solstice to Mithras Sol Invictus. Mithras was a popular religion in the Roman Empire and would of been more popular than Christianity. Only men were allowed to be Mithras. If Christmas was not in December, it would be a rather boring month.
The bible consists of more than just John 3:16. Knowing the exact or near-exact dates of the conception and the birth is proof that a person is willing to have a better understanding of God's ways and how he wants us to go through life.
I was raised to believe that Jesus’ birthdate was April 6th.
But the thing that baffles me is, when was St. Claus born?
I wonder as I wander out under the sky
How Jesus the Saviour did come for to die
For poor on'ry people like you and like I;
I wonder as I wander out under the sky
When Mary birthed Jesus 'twas in a cow's stall
With wise men and farmers and shepherds and all
But high from God's heaven, a star's light did fall
And the promise of ages it then did recall.
If Jesus had wanted for any wee thing
A star in the sky or a bird on the wing
Or all of God's Angels in heaven to sing
He surely could have it, 'cause he was the King
I wonder as I wander out under the sky
How Jesus the Saviour did come for to die
For poor on'ry people like you and like I;
I wonder as I wander out under the sky
RE: But the thing that baffles me is, when was St. Claus born?
THIS LINK ABOUT THE LEGEND OF SANTA CLAUS SHOULD BE OF INTEREST TO YOU :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus
Time matters to us, but the problem is that our way of calculating it has changed so much over the centuries that who knows what the "original" date of Christ's birth might have been in our modern calendar systems?
Furthermore, who cares? We all know that He was born and He was real, we know the year from the Gospel accounts, and we also know that He changed all time forever.
There were several dates for Christmas circulating in the early Christan world, and the early Church chose the most appropriate: the darkest time of the year, when the Orient from on high dawns upon us. Imagine winter without Christmas. I wonder if any of us could survive!
Every year the atheists (not referring to this article) come out with what they think will be the devastating blow: Jesus probably wasn't born on the modern December 25.
And I think each year they are disappointed because we already know this and don't care. We know He was born. He was real. That's it, and the atheists and non-Christians can go off and gnash their teeth until their gums bleed...and then maybe they'll get converted thanks to our prayers!
Do like me; Every day is Christmas to me, then you have no doubt, very simple.
Christmas ping.
I was completely unaware of this as a means of selecting 25 Dec as Christ’s birth date
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