Posted on 12/30/2009 1:32:39 PM PST by Colofornian
Twice obviously : ) Life is a soliton.
That is the tricky part, full of logical contradictions. Those logical contradictions falsify the idea of any omnipotent god.
I always got an "F" if I didn't show my work...
Sarcasm is obviously lost on you.
Regardless, God is not an idea that He can be falsified. Nor does logic work if you start with erroneous presuppositions.
Presuming that that argument falsifies an omnipotent God depends on wrong presuppositions about God and wrong use of the definition of *omnipotent*.
If you want to disprove God, you're going to have to find a better method than one devised by the finite and imperfect minds of man.
That is correct. God is an idea that man created.
Presuming that that argument falsifies an omnipotent God depends on wrong presuppositions about God and wrong use of the definition of *omnipotent*.
Omnipotent is pretty self explanatory, hard to get that definition wrong.
If you want to disprove God, you're going to have to find a better method than one devised by the finite and imperfect minds of man.
Falsifying the idea of God is trivial. If I look in the bottom of my coffee cup and don't see God I have falsified it. On the other hand you have your work cut out for you if you want to prove the existence of God. Good luck : )
Elsie you never show your work : )
Here is a simple, easy to understand example. If God is Omnipotent then it can do anything right? So it should be trivial to build a mass that can't be moved right? But God is omnipotent and can do anything so there is no mass that it can't move. Therefor he can't build a mass that he can't move. But God can do anything, therefor it can build a mass that it can't move. Ad infinitum.
God can do one or the other but not both. When people start throwing around words like omniscient and omnipotent, those are easily falsified concepts.
That darned coffee cup of yours again. You've been looking for God in there for many years, on FR alone.
Are you expecting the grounds in the bottom to self-organize into an image of Jesus or something? Maybe a little tiny Jesus walking across the surface of your coffee? What, exactly, is it that would convince you of the existence of God, in your coffee cup?
That is correct. God is an idea that man created.
First you agree that He is not an idea, then you say He is. Which is it? Is He an idea or not?
Then you shouldn't have any problem distinguishing the difference between having unlimited power and being able to *do everything*, as if having power makes one able to do contradictory things, which it doesn't. Starting with a false premise leads to erroneous conclusions. God is not capable of doing *whatever He wants* which is really a inadequate man-made construct.
God cannot change and God cannot lie, to start with, so the premise that God can do everything, or anything He wants, is false, therefore any conclusions based on that will be wrong.
Time for you to head back to Logic 101
Disproving God takes more that corrupted reasoning. In order for you to definitively demonstrate that there is no God, you need to know all things for all time and eternity, and everywhere, which would make you God. Since you can't do that, and aren't that knowledgeable, you by, default cannot disprove God.
We can’t see air either, therefore it must not exist....
Howdy Regulator : ) As an ex Mormon there were taboos against drinking coffee. Mormons are actually pretty accepting folk, but drinking, smoking and coffee tend to push the limits.
Are you expecting the grounds in the bottom to self-organize into an image of Jesus or something? Maybe a little tiny Jesus walking across the surface of your coffee? What, exactly, is it that would convince you of the existence of God, in your coffee cup?
I am subtly making fun of all those people who see images of Christ or Mary on a potato or burnt toast : )
If I knew his address, I’d send him a custom coffee cup with the word “god” silkscreened in the bottom. He probably still wouldn’t find God as a result, but we wouldn’t have to read about him looking in that infernal, godless coffee cup anymore.
Ah, so you’re ribbing Catholics, then, while engaging in a formerly illicit behavior?
Just don’t start talking into that coffee cup, the next time you’re looking for Him in there, especially if you’re in Utah. The irony would be so thick, I’m sure something would spontaneously combust, lol.
He who has ears, let him hear. - Matthew 11:5
LeGrande - "That is correct. God is an idea that man created. "
Metmom - First you agree that He is not an idea, then you say He is. Which is it? Is He an idea or not?
God is an idea that can't be falsified, unless it is clearly defined. Once it is clearly defined, like saying God is Omnipotent then the idea can be falsified.
God is not capable of doing *whatever He wants* which is really a inadequate man-made construct.
Then clearly God is not omnipotent, by your own admission. I apparently was under the false impression that you thought God was Omnipotent.
God cannot change and God cannot lie, to start with, so the premise that God can do everything, or anything He wants, is false, therefore any conclusions based on that will be wrong.
We are in total agreement that God cannot be omnipotent. Now you are starting to sound like a Mormon : )
Disproving God takes more that corrupted reasoning. In order for you to definitively demonstrate that there is no God, you need to know all things for all time and eternity, and everywhere, which would make you God. Since you can't do that, and aren't that knowledgeable, you by, default cannot disprove God.
You are correct. I can't prove a negative (or prove anything at all). In other words I can't disprove the possible existence of Despator (God of creation). It is only when people give that God defining characteristics that I have a shot at falsifying it. I can falsify some things : )
As it turns out though, Despator and I are good drinking buddies and he doesn't recall a JHWH around when he created everything (himself included) ex nihilo : ) Can you falsify Despator?
Are you willing to defend your beliefs or do you want to run away?
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No, I would never claim you did. LOL. Offense, however....
Yes. Life is good isn't it?
Just don’t start talking into that coffee cup, the next time you’re looking for Him in there, especially if you’re in Utah. The irony would be so thick, I’m sure something would spontaneously combust, lol.
Hmm, my wife has become quite the barrista. She even draws pictures in the espresso's. It is kind of a daily joke trying to guess what the drawing is of : ) Maybe I will see God one day.
God is omnipotent.
Messing with the definitions creates a false premise which will get you a wrong answer.
You cannot disprove God. It’s not possible. And you haven’t falsified anything, either.
Tell me, why are you so interested in disproving God and trying to dissuade people from believing in Him?
What’s it to you whether people believe or not? How is it hurting you any?
Thank you for your reply. It actually helped answer a few questions.
I too found the difference between the beliefs and facts to be disconcerting. That is why I left, but I have continued to be amazed by the same disconnect everywhere I look.
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You are welcome.
I understand, that for some, the idea of having faith necessitates the dismissal of the so-called differences between said faith and “reality”. And in some cases that is true, I suppose.
My current primary research area is Medieval hagiography, and many of the experiences of the mystics require a “willing suspension of disbelief” even among the faithful.
However, that does not necessarily mean that all faith requires such. Most conflicts or controversies, especially within much of the history/doctrine of traditional Christianity, Judaism, and Buddhism can be explained satisfactorily.
Don’t get me wrong, Christian Church History stinks and there have been many wrong things done and claimed in the name of Christianity, but that does not mean we should throw the baby out with the bath water.
Christianity is about Christ, separate from the Church Militant and more and more Christians are recognizing problems in our history and dealing with them. For the most part, practicing Christians do not whitewash nor manipulate (including destruction of sources) that are considered controversial or embarrassing.
My problem with the LDS faith is that they deliberately lie and mislead their own followers as well as outsiders. I have seen firsthand how they whitewash their history, remove sources, edit microfilms, and manipulate their members. The LDS faith, IMO, be better off and would have a much less apostasy rate, if the leaders were up front about the problems and deceptions of their church. Theoretically, they could admit there are multiple contradictory “first vision” accounts, that certain doctrines were taught and believed by many but are NO longer considered doctrine, and develop a consistent systematic theology that would solidify their doctrine. Furthermore, the dismissal of the idea of a “prophet”, with the impression/belief of infallibility could be an “out” for many issues, including the contradictions in teachings.
However, that would flatten the LDS church doctrinally and philosophically. It would require them to give up the BoM (other than as a 19th C. religious work), the D&C (other than as a group of teachings), the PGP, their claims of priesthood, and the claim of being the only true “restored” church. It would also require less control of their membership and a more lenient stance of the development of doctrine.
BTW, have you ever read any of Lee Strobel’s books? He was a journalist started off seeing the same “disconnect” and as an atheist. A couple of his books are interviews with philosophers and theologians and their answers to his issues. They are worth a read, even if you do not agree with his conclusions.
And I apologize if this is a little rambling. Painkillers kicking in. :)
everyone needs a hobby...
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