Posted on 12/30/2009 1:32:39 PM PST by Colofornian
Yes of course there were other issues. You focused on the issue of the Mormons voting as a block, which was certainly true (how that condemns JS I haven't got a clue), but that only bolsters my case that the reason for the persecution was the slavery issue.
The Missourians (a slave state) saw an exploding population of Mormons, who were abolitionists (Joseph Smith gave the priesthood to a black man) and they voted as a block. If I recall correctly the first casualties were over voting where the Missourians tried to prevent the Mormons from voting.
It is very clear (to me at least ; ) ) that the Missourians saw the exploding Mormon (Northerners) population as a threat to their slave owning way of life. And they tried every way they could to limit the growth and influence of the Mormons in their midst. If they didn't stop the growth, the Mormons would have eventually had the voting power to eliminate slavery in Missouri.
What is interesting though, is that neither Mormons nor the anti's want slavery remembered as the issue. The Mormons want the issue to be their religion, and the anti's want it to be polygamy, not the mundane (to us now) slavery issue.
*sigh* well then it seems that I have posed a question that is unanswerable. I have only asked one question, not 20, and that is to point me to the scientific journals/articles/books that specifically link “life” to Einstein’s relativity equation. From the certainity that it was put forth, such a request should not have caused such consternation. I may take some time to search it out, but as it stands now such documentation is non-existant.
You focused on the issue of the Mormons voting as a block,
The Mormons want the issue to be their religion, and the anti’s want it to be polygamy, not the mundane (to us now) slavery issue.
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Wrong, I listed it along with several other issues. Primacy of place does not necessarily mean focus. There was no focus.
Actually, most “anti’s” focus on the crimes (theft and fraud, and assassination attempt against Gov. Boggs) of the LDS in MO, rather than polygamy.
Polygamy was much more of an issue in Deseret.
You mean the theft of the Mormon's land? Or the Extermination order? Nah those issues don't have much anti Mormon appeal do they?
Polygamy was much more of an issue in Deseret.
You are correct, but most of the anti's are ignorant and try to focus on polygamy in Missouri.
Unanswerable? I answered it very clearly. You are the one that seems to think that left is somehow separate from matter and energy.
I have only asked one question, not 20, and that is to point me to the scientific journals/articles/books that specifically link “life” to Einstein’s relativity equation.
And I replied by asking you what is different in 'life' to make Einsteins equation not applicable to it? Is that the unanswerable question that you can't find an answer to?
From the certainity that it was put forth, such a request should not have caused such consternation. I may take some time to search it out, but as it stands now such documentation is non-existant.
Consternation? On your part maybe. When you figure out what sets life apart from matter and energy let me know : )
You mean the theft of the Mormon’s land? Or the Extermination order?
but most of the anti’s are ignorant and try to focus on polygamy in Missouri.
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I meant the Mormon behavior that led to the extermination order. The taking of LDS land was done AFTER the extermination order which was after the LDS assassination attempt on Boggs. The theft of non-moromon goods and cattle by the LDS came before that even.
Both sides are guilty, but the LDS aggravated the situation and in many ways contributed to their being run out of MO.
Show me some sources where “anti’s” FOCUS on polygamy in MO. It is not a focus, although I can see it being a MINOR factor (since women were leaving their husbands to become plural wives).
Let me refresh the question I asked you - once again.
point me to the scientific journals/articles/books that specifically link “life” to Einstein’s relativity equation.
And I replied by asking you what is different in 'life' to make Einsteins equation not applicable to it? Is that the unanswerable question that you can't find an answer to?
That is not the answer to my question - see above. Your opinion is biased and all I have been wanting to review is standard scientific publications that make the linkage of life to Einstein's equation as you have inferred. The obfuscation and deflection I've been receiving in response indicates that contrary to what has been asserted - no such link is substantiated in scientific journals.
When you figure out what sets life apart from matter and energy let me know : )
My request is really very simple and non threatening (or at least should be non threatening if these journals, et al, have linked life to relativity) and would prevent me from wasting time any further with you and allow my own independent assessment of the science. How can that be so hard for you provide? Once I've done that assessment, then the definition of "life" with respect to relativity can be further defined and examined.
“Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nevada”
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I never knew...
You aren't very well informed are you? Have you forgotten that the anti Mormon vigilantes started it by driving the Mormons from Jackson County (and not allowing them to vote) and tried to restrict the Mormons to Caldwell county. They also never paid for the land they stole from the Mormons in Jackson County. This was years prior to their land being stolen when they were forced out under the extermination order.
Both sides are guilty, but the LDS aggravated the situation and in many ways contributed to their being run out of MO.
Nothing like blaming the victims, is there?
Have you forgotten that the anti Mormon vigilantes started it by driving the Mormons from Jackson County (and not allowing them to vote) and tried to restrict the Mormons to Caldwell county. They also never paid for the land they stole from the Mormons in Jackson County. This was years prior to their land being stolen when they were forced out under the extermination order.
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And AFTER the LDS were caught cheating, stealing and defrauding the “gentiles”.
Mormon victim card played again. The were perps as well as victims. There are no innocent parties in this.
Do your assessment and get back to me.
It isn't cheating, stealing or defrauding the gentiles to buy up big tracts of land.
It isn’t cheating, stealing or defrauding the gentiles to buy up big tracts of land.
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It wasn’t the buying of the land (when it was bought), it was outright theft, selling sick animals, stealing non-LDS owned livestock, scaring people into moving and fraud by members of the LDS church. They are not innocent in the least.
It sounds like you are accusing the entire LDS population of cattle rustling : ) and using that as justification for stealing their property, denying them voting rights and exterminating them.
I suppose that is one way to read the history. What is interesting to me is that you condemn the Mormons for doing far less than what the 'Christians' did.
Arguing with perfect people only entertains them, you should really stop, like me you are just not smart enough to argue with perfect people.
Shall I take that as an admittance that you have no scientific documentation incorporating "life" into Einstein's theory of relativity - after all, that is the only question I've been asking you information for. BTW, my assessment was after I reviewed the DOCUMENTATION you were to provide.
*sigh* Since you can provide none - your point is lost by default.
I don't bother with posters who admit to doing nothing more than attempting to provoke. Paying them attention feeds their "Attitude of Superiority" which seems to cling to some even if they do leave the mormon church.
One can expect that lurkers can see this....similar to "feeding the troll".
Perhaps, but then again there are times where the lack of substance in the arguement needs to be made evident.
Absolutely not. I am simply asking you for a clarification as to how life is separate from matter and energy (I define life as a subset of energy and matter) before providing you with the documentation. You seem to have some weird definition of life and it is pointless to try and point out what you haven't defined.
After you have done your assessment (I am assuming you know how to google), then provide your definition and get back to me.
Oh crickey! FOR THE LAST TIME, I am saying that both sides were at fault. One no more than the other. The LDS are not innocent as they claim and frankly I get tired of them always playing the victim card.
And I make no apologies for Christian Church history either. I never have.
The issues and problems of Christian Church History does not change who Christ is or His word. IOW, it does not affect my theology.
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