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Student battles back from debilitating crash
San Diego Union Tribune ^ | 1/1/10 | Steve Liewer

Posted on 01/02/2010 1:38:55 PM PST by wagglebee

      Jodie Beckner demonstrated a move at Pilates Plus in La Jolla, where she teaches classes. Six years ago, Beckner suffered a permanent traumatic brain injury after a head-on collision on an icy Vermont road. She graduated from SDSU in December and hopes to go to nursing school. Peggie Peattie / Union-Tribune

Jodie Beckner demonstrated a move at Pilates Plus in La Jolla, where she teaches classes. Six years ago, Beckner suffered a permanent traumatic brain injury after a head-on collision on an icy Vermont road. She graduated from SDSU in December and hopes to go to nursing school. Peggie Peattie / Union-Tribune

Mike Beckner was fixing dinner when he got the phone call parents dread — the one from a doctor trying to break awful news gently.

Earlier that day, Nov. 11, 2003, his daughter, Jodie, had driven up a mountain to catch the first day of snowboarding season at a ski resort when her SUV spun out on a patch of ice and hit another vehicle.

“They were starting to tell me there was a car crash,” recalled Mike Beckner, 60, of Encinitas. “I couldn’t process it. I was in shock. I handed the phone to my wife.”

The Beckners reached the bedside of their comatose daughter the next afternoon, the beginning of a six-year rehabilitation struggle. Jodie Beckner was a top-notch college student and competitive gymnast, swimmer and diver at the time of the crash. Afterward, she fought her way back from an almost infantile state to become a woman as smart, funny and capable — though profoundly changed — as the one who drove up the mountain that day.

In December, Beckner, 24, of Ocean Beach earned her bachelor’s degree in public policy from San Diego State University. She hopes to enter an accelerated nursing program next fall and perhaps use her skills in the Peace Corps one day.

“Jodie has been knocked down so many times over the past few years, but she keeps getting back up,” said her mother, Kathy Beckner.

Today, all Jodie knows of the crash is what she has heard from others: Her car slid across the road into oncoming traffic. Her head slammed into an air bag, and the force rattled her brain, impairing her cognitive and emotional states.

She barely stirred for five days in the hospital and didn’t recognize her family for three weeks. She said her last memory from before the accident is of a camping trip she took a week or two earlier.

The first three years of recovery were filled with intensive physical and occupational therapy, including neurological treatments that ultimately helped to restore the damaged circuitry in her brain.

Mike and Kathy Beckner said their daughter was emotionless and isolationist at first. Once she started a task, such as brushing her hair or working on a word puzzle book, she would keep at it continuously unless someone told her to stop.

“She was like a zombie,” Michael Beckner said.

“You would look at her and look right through her, because there didn’t seem to be anything there.”

But Jodie Beckner soon made astonishing progress. Just six months after the crash, she took a job stocking shelves at a store. In summer 2004, she began college-level classes again.

“At the rehab center, they said she was taking quantum leaps,” Kathy Beckner said.

Jodie Beckner doesn’t remember her decision to apply to SDSU in 2004, though she told her mother about wanting to live near her older sister, Mary Beth, in San Diego. She started fall courses on the campus with a vigor that astonished her parents, who moved from New Jersey to Encinitas in 2007 to keep the family close together.

Beckner juggled a full-time job and a full class load, studying extra to make up for shortcomings in her short-term memory. An SDSU program for students with disabilities helped ensure that classrooms accommodated her needs, such as letting her sit near the front so she could hear better. The car crash had damaged her hearing.

“I’m sure I had” doubts, Jodie Beckner said. “But I’ve never said, ‘I can’t do this.’”

She claims no great spiritual rebirth from her close call, but said it has spurred her desire to help disadvantaged patients.

Kathy Beckner sees her daughter’s turnaround as a purposeful blessing.

“I’ve told her, ‘You have a mission on Earth,’ ” Kathy Beckner said.

“It’s a miracle she has come this far.”


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: braininjury; disabled; medicine; moralabsolutes; prolife
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Jodie Beckner was a top-notch college student and competitive gymnast, swimmer and diver at the time of the crash. Afterward, she fought her way back from an almost infantile state to become a woman as smart, funny and capable — though profoundly changed — as the one who drove up the mountain that day.

This is ALWAYS possible when a brain injured person is surrounded by those who love them and don't want to kill them.

1 posted on 01/02/2010 1:38:57 PM PST by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; Salvation; 8mmMauser

Pro-Life Ping


2 posted on 01/02/2010 1:39:34 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 185JHP; 230FMJ; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee or DirtyHarryY2K to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


3 posted on 01/02/2010 1:40:03 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; Sun; amdgmary

Ping!


4 posted on 01/02/2010 1:41:11 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

>>This is ALWAYS possible when a brain injured person is surrounded by those who love them and don’t want to kill them.<<

Unfortunate that Teri was much farther gone than this and a blessing her legal guardian gave her release.

I don’t seem to recall anyone pulling the plug on her after 2 months.

But maybe you aren’t making any equivalencies and I am reading something into the post here...


5 posted on 01/02/2010 1:44:40 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: freedumb2003; BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; Sun; Coleus; narses; PhilDragoo; ...
Unfortunate that Teri [sic] was much farther gone than this and a blessing her legal guardian gave her release.

Actually, Terri was responding to therapy. Then she was awarded a large sum of money and her estranged, adulterous and likely abusive husband decided he was better off with her dead. No "release" was granted, she was deprived of food and water at gunpoint.

I don’t seem to recall anyone pulling the plug on her after 2 months.

What plug are you referring to.

But maybe you aren’t making any equivalencies and I am reading something into the post here...

No, I'm just not a fan of murdering the disabled.

6 posted on 01/02/2010 1:53:00 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

>>Actually, Terri was responding to therapy.<<

Only in the minds of people who don’t see reality. She was brain dead.

>>Actually, Terri was responding to therapy. Then she was awarded a large sum of money and her estranged, adulterous and likely abusive husband decided he was better off with her dead. No “release” was granted, she was deprived of food and water at gunpoint.<<

No, she was released per her instructions to her husband. I, for one, don’t want the Government intruding on the instructions I might leave behind. Liberals are the only ones who want the Government to intrude on personal and legally binding decisions.

Your aspersions on the husband are mere projections and unproven.

And the parents didn’t get involved until the money was on the line. Some love, eh?

>>What plug are you referring to.<<

The one you imply in your comparison. The article speaks of a 2 month ordeal. The Shaivo case went 6 years.

>>No, I’m just not a fan of murdering the disabled.<<

Nor am I. But if someone asks for release then it is incumbent on the loved one to acquiesce to his/her desires.


7 posted on 01/02/2010 1:59:34 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: freedumb2003
She was brain dead.

Show us the documentation of that. You can't, because it's a lie.

8 posted on 01/02/2010 2:01:30 PM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: freedumb2003; BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; Sun; Coleus; narses; PhilDragoo; ...
Only in the minds of people who don’t see reality. She was brain dead.

Odd, even those trying to murder her never suggest that she was brain dead. Brain death is a specific medical term, a person who is brain dead is unable to breath on their own, this WAS NOT the case with Terri.

Here is a link to videos which clearly show that she was responsive.

Videos of Terri

No, she was released per her instructions to her husband. I, for one, don’t want the Government intruding on the instructions I might leave behind.

Where are those instructions? Do you have a copy of them?

And the parents didn’t get involved until the money was on the line. Some love, eh?

You have no idea what you are talking about.

The one you imply in your comparison. The article speaks of a 2 month ordeal. The Shaivo [sic] case went 6 years.

Again, you are wrong.

From the article:
The Beckners reached the bedside of their comatose daughter the next afternoon, the beginning of a six-year rehabilitation struggle.

And Terri's injury was FIFTEEN years before her murder.

9 posted on 01/02/2010 2:13:02 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
A few years back my husband received a phone call from a priest who he had met when the man was a seminarian. They had been in a mens' choral group over 20 years ago and shortly after that, we attended his ordination.

It turns out Fr. Rick had been hit by a car and when he came out of his coma had no memory. He had been looking at pictures one day and saw my husband, remembered him and called him with questions to help piece together memories of his past.

10 posted on 01/02/2010 2:13:29 PM PST by Mygirlsmom (God bless us, everyone!)
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To: freedumb2003; wagglebee
No, she was released per her instructions to her husband.

Show us the documentation of that. You can't, because that's a couple more lies.

Michael testified in court, and told the press that was covering one of his fund raisers, that Terri was responding to therapy, and that he promised her that he would take care of her for the rest of their lives.

Liberals are the only ones who want the Government to intrude on personal and legally binding decisions.

Liberals are the ones who supported the government order to kill Terri, in opposition to her indisputable publicly demonstrated religious convictions.

Wagglebee hasn't said anything about Terri's estranged husband that hasn't been proven true.

Terri's family was involved with her from the time she was born. They didn't stop being involved with her, except to the extent that her estranged husband succeeded in depriving her of contact with her family and friends. Even so, they continued in their attempts to be as involved with her as they could.

Terri's family spent their own money caring for Terri, until her estranged husband received the money from his fraudulent lawsuit. When Terri's Dad asked him to keep his word and use the money for Terri's rehab, that's when Michael became adversarial.

Nor am I. But if someone asks for release then it is incumbent on the loved one to acquiesce to his/her desires.

That's a straw-man, since Terri never asked to be starved and dehydrated to death.

11 posted on 01/02/2010 2:16:57 PM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: wagglebee

>>Odd, even those trying to murder her never suggest that she was brain dead. Brain death is a specific medical term, a person who is brain dead is unable to breath on their own, this WAS NOT the case with Terri.<<

There were no higher brain functions. Those videos make my point — she was not thinking any more than a grasshopper who watches movement.

>>Where are those instructions? Do you have a copy of them?<<

For her, they were entrusted to her husband. That is the law. For me, they are written down.

Do you know what Schaivo’s were? Or do you want Big Government to create them from whole cloth? Like you are.

>> Again, you are wrong.

From the article:
The Beckners reached the bedside of their comatose daughter the next afternoon, the beginning of a six-year rehabilitation struggle.

And Terri’s injury was FIFTEEN years before her murder.<<

Thanks for making my point. 15 years is even more than 2 months.


12 posted on 01/02/2010 2:20:22 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: BykrBayb

>>Show us the documentation of that. You can’t, because that’s a couple more lies. <<

You can’t prove the converse either. The law was and is on his side, as it should be. Unless Ms. Schaivo told you something herself.

>>Michael testified in court, and told the press that was covering one of his fund raisers, that Terri was responding to therapy, and that he promised her that he would take care of her for the rest of their lives.<<

And he did.

>> Liberals are the ones who supported the government order to kill Terri, in opposition to her indisputable publicly demonstrated religious convictions.

Wagglebee hasn’t said anything about Terri’s estranged husband that hasn’t been proven true.<<

He went for comfort when there was none available from his wife. Not cool, but who are you to stand in judgment? As far as the rest go, it is all simple smearing to share up a political, pro Big Government agenda.

>>Terri’s family was involved with her from the time she was born. They didn’t stop being involved with her, except to the extent that her estranged husband succeeded in depriving her of contact with her family and friends. Even so, they continued in their attempts to be as involved with her as they could.<<

Most of us grow up. Once you are an adult and make adult decisions, your parents no longer have legal standing. It amazed me the court allowed these legal strangers to even get involved.

>>Terri’s family spent their own money caring for Terri, until her estranged husband received the money from his fraudulent lawsuit. When Terri’s Dad asked him to keep his word and use the money for Terri’s rehab, that’s when Michael became adversarial. <<

The parents mixed it up in the courts the moment money came into the picture.


13 posted on 01/02/2010 2:27:56 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: freedumb2003; BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; Sun; Coleus; narses; PhilDragoo; ...
There were no higher brain functions. Those videos make my point — she was not thinking any more than a grasshopper who watches movement.

So, now you want to change the definition of brain death to be whatever you think it is?

For her, they were entrusted to her husband. That is the law. For me, they are written down.

Actually, the law was changed AFTER her injury. Terri NEVER could have requested to be starved to death.

Do you know what Schaivo’s were? Or do you want Big Government to create them from whole cloth? Like you are.

No, in the ABSENCE of written wishes I think we should presume that a person wants to live.

Thanks for making my point. 15 years is even more than 2 months.

My point which you obviously missed (perhaps a "higher brain function" issue) was that the woman in the article had the benefit of SIX years of rehabilitation, Terri Schiavo DID NOT.

14 posted on 01/02/2010 2:29:57 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: freedumb2003; Sun

Sun, do you still have the link to the advertisement for the fund raiser Michael Schiavo held, in which he stated that Terri was responding well to the brain implant, and was showing progress?


15 posted on 01/02/2010 2:31:27 PM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: freedumb2003
You can’t prove the converse either.

It's already been proven. Michael's court testimony was documented.

Your troll-tactic of changing the subject mid-sentence is an old one. Okay, so now you want to make it about the laws that were violated. Or is it about Terri's knowledge of law? Could you try to say something that actually makes sense?

And he did.

He did what? Take care of her for the rest of their lives? The context in which he gave that testimony suggested that he promised to take care of her in the true sense of caring, not in the sense of "I'll take care of that bitch." Killing her was the direct opposite of what he testified he promised to do for her.

He went for comfort when there was none available from his wife. Not cool, but who are you to stand in judgment? As far as the rest go, it is all simple smearing to share up a political, pro Big Government agenda.

What does that have to do with anything we were discussing? Nothing. But trolls must change the subject frequently. So okay, you want to talk about Terri's estranged husband violating more than just his vow not to kill her. You want to introduce his sexual infidelity. But how do his sexual escapades support small government? I don't get the connection you're trying to make there.

Most of us grow up. Once you are an adult and make adult decisions, your parents no longer have legal standing. It amazed me the court allowed these legal strangers to even get involved.

So now you're saying that when she grew up her family should have severed all involvement in her life? That's what you claimed they did in your previous post. Make up your mind. Pick a belief, and defend that belief. Only trolls change their belief midstream to enable them to continue arguing.

The parents mixed it up in the courts the moment money came into the picture.

Mixed what up? Are you now trying to suggest that it's their fault Michael embezzled Terri's rehab money?

16 posted on 01/02/2010 2:48:42 PM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: freedumb2003; wagglebee
Unfortunate that Teri was much farther gone than this.....

Oh really? You were there, were you?

What expertise in the medical field do you have that allows you to make that kind of diagnosis and determination? What was your personal connection to the case?

....and a blessing her legal guardian gave her release.

*gave her "release"?* Is that how you write off murdering someone in one of the most reprehensible ways around? A *blessing* dying of starvation and dehydration?

Would you like to have some one *bless* you that way some time?

Your liberal streak is showing BIG time. THIS is why you're being labeled liberal.

17 posted on 01/02/2010 2:51:25 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: wagglebee
(perhaps a "higher brain function" issue)

Therein lies the irony of the deathbots' manifesto. They can't meet their own artificial standards to qualify for life. Under their own rules, they'd be starved and dehydrated to death.

18 posted on 01/02/2010 2:52:44 PM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: wagglebee

>>So, now you want to change the definition of brain death to be whatever you think it is?<<

No, I want it to mean the ability to think.

>>Actually, the law was changed AFTER her injury. Terri NEVER could have requested to be starved to death.<<

The final provisions of a person has always been held with the closest family. There is no legal relationship closer than spouse.

>>No, in the ABSENCE of written wishes I think we should presume that a person wants to live.<<

You can presume all you want. Many of us want to be let go when we are are vegetables. Your presumption and $5 will get you a latte at Starbucks.

>>My point which you obviously missed (perhaps a “higher brain function” issue) was that the woman in the article had the benefit of SIX years of rehabilitation, Terri Schiavo DID NOT.<<

She wasn’t married. Schaivo was.


19 posted on 01/02/2010 2:53:11 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: BykrBayb

I agree with you, BykrBayb. She DEFINITELY was not brain dead. You should show the video of Terri laughing with her father, remembering how she teased her mother.


20 posted on 01/02/2010 2:56:10 PM PST by jackibutterfly
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To: freedumb2003; BykrBayb; wagglebee
bb:Michael testified in court, and told the press that was covering one of his fund raisers, that Terri was responding to therapy, and that he promised her that he would take care of her for the rest of their lives.

From the injury HE gave her. How convenient....

fd: And he did.

Until he got tired of it and murdered her.

There is no legitimate reason in the world that he could not simply have divorced her and let her parents take over the care.

All your championing of freedom from government intrusion have the same hollow ring to it that all the pro-choicers have when they claim that a woman has a *right* to murder her own baby because it's her body and the government doesn't have the right to interfere and tell her she can't murder it.

21 posted on 01/02/2010 2:57:57 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: freedumb2003; BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; Sun; Coleus; narses; PhilDragoo; ...
No, I want it to mean the ability to think.

Ability to "think" is totally subjective and has NOTHING to do with brain death.

The final provisions of a person has always been held with the closest family. There is no legal relationship closer than spouse.

So, in the absence of a legal document you believe that a spouse should be allowed to kill someone?

You can presume all you want. Many of us want to be let go when we are are vegetables.

So, YOU want to impose YOUR desires on EVERYONE else?

She wasn’t married. Schaivo was.

What does that have to do with her response to therapy.

22 posted on 01/02/2010 2:59:27 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: BykrBayb

>> It’s already been proven. Michael’s court testimony was documented.

Your troll-tactic of changing the subject mid-sentence is an old one. Okay, so now you want to make it about the laws that were violated. Or is it about Terri’s knowledge of law? Could you try to say something that actually makes sense? <<
OK. Ms. Schaivo told her husband to not let her stay if she was a vegetable. You weren’t there, so you don’t know.

>>He did what? Take care of her for the rest of their lives? The context in which he gave that testimony suggested that he promised to take care of her in the true sense of caring, not in the sense of “I’ll take care of that bitch.” Killing her was the direct opposite of what he testified he promised to do for her.<<

He did the best he could with meddling parents and other nosey types getting in their personal business.

>>What does that have to do with anything we were discussing? Nothing. But trolls must change the subject frequently. So okay, you want to talk about Terri’s estranged husband violating more than just his vow not to kill her. You want to introduce his sexual infidelity. But how do his sexual escapades support small government? I don’t get the connection you’re trying to make there.<<

It was you all that introduced the husband’s peccadilloes. My point is they are irrelevant, no matter how much you Nanny-Staters want to bring them up.

>>So now you’re saying that when she grew up her family should have severed all involvement in her life? That’s what you claimed they did in your previous post. Make up your mind. Pick a belief, and defend that belief. Only trolls change their belief midstream to enable them to continue arguing.<<

You are very slow. I will go slowly. When you marry, you give up almost all legal ties to your previous family. And if an adult leaves his/her home the legal ties to the original family become tenuous. Marriage severs them altogether.

Of coure, you Nanny Staters will say anything an build any straw man to make sure you defend Big Government to support your political agenda.

>>Mixed what up? Are you now trying to suggest that it’s their fault Michael embezzled Terri’s rehab money?<<

You can’t embezzle what is yours. The parents only started “caring” substantially when there was money involved. They had no legal standing and I continue to be amazed the court let them in.


23 posted on 01/02/2010 3:00:35 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: BykrBayb; wagglebee
Therein lies the irony of the deathbots' manifesto.

FOTFLOL!!!!

You nailed it.

24 posted on 01/02/2010 3:00:49 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: freedumb2003; wagglebee
wb: >>So, now you want to change the definition of brain death to be whatever you think it is?<<

fd: No, I want it to mean the ability to think.

And your excuse is????

25 posted on 01/02/2010 3:02:29 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: wagglebee

This is getting old, so I’ll answet the obly question that is of import:

>>So, in the absence of a legal document you believe that a spouse should be allowed to kill someone?<<

No, I the spouse is the only person who is legally allowed to express the stated desires of someone who is unable to think for themselves. You may want the government to think for you and break the law for you, but I think the law is more important than a narrow and political pro-Government agenda.

Unless and until you can produce a witness to gainsay the husband, your entire argument is sophistry and just more pro-Big-Government propaganda.


26 posted on 01/02/2010 3:04:02 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: freedumb2003; jackibutterfly
Video of Terri's dead body enjoying her father reminiscencing about her childhood.
27 posted on 01/02/2010 3:05:03 PM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: wagglebee; freedumb2003; BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; Sun; Coleus; narses; PhilDragoo
So, YOU want to impose YOUR desires on EVERYONE else?

No, he simply cannot conceive of someone thinking differently than he does, so he projects onto others.

And yes, he does. That is readily apparent on other threads on which I've seen him post. His posting history, there for all to see, bears it out.

28 posted on 01/02/2010 3:05:12 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

>>And your excuse is????<<

I don’t have hate and evil in my heart like you do.

That is sufficient.


29 posted on 01/02/2010 3:05:24 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: metmom

>>No, he simply cannot conceive of someone thinking differently than he does, so he projects onto others.<<

OMG the irony.

>>And yes, he does. That is readily apparent on other threads on which I’ve seen him post. His posting history, there for all to see, bears it out.<<

OMG the irony.


30 posted on 01/02/2010 3:06:42 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: metmom

But it always makes me happy to see my paparazzi stalkers doing what they do so well.


31 posted on 01/02/2010 3:07:33 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: freedumb2003; BykrBayb; wagglebee
OK. Ms. Schaivo told her husband to not let her stay if she was a vegetable. You weren’t there, so you don’t know.

Were YOU there?

How do you know she told him? Did you hear it yourself?

32 posted on 01/02/2010 3:07:47 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom; BykrBayb

According to the AMA, brain death means “irreversible cessation of the functions of the ENTIRE brain, including brain stem.”
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/369/ceja_4i94.pdf


33 posted on 01/02/2010 3:09:06 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: metmom

>>How do you know she told him? Did you hear it yourself?<<

That isn’t the way evidence nor logic works.

But that concept is wasted on you.


34 posted on 01/02/2010 3:09:11 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: freedumb2003
I don’t have hate and evil in my heart like you do.

That's ironic coming from someone who believes that a husband should be able to decide to kill his own wife.

So, answer the other question....Why didn't he just divorce her and let her family take over the care?

If marriage severs the ties to the immediate family like you claim, then divorce should restore them.

What skin was it off his back if they got divorced and he let her family take over her care?

35 posted on 01/02/2010 3:12:05 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: freedumb2003

Why are you such an advocate for allowing spouses to kill their mates if they want to?


36 posted on 01/02/2010 3:13:34 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: wagglebee

My DIL is going to school to become an Occupational Therapist, one of the guys with her in the program had a Truamatic Brain Injury. He had a PhD. in biology before the accident and he credits the OT’s for getting him back as far as they did and wants to be able to return the favor.


37 posted on 01/02/2010 3:14:07 PM PST by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: freedumb2003
I don’t have hate and evil in my heart like you do.

I feel anyone who wants to kill a living person has hate and evil in their heart.
38 posted on 01/02/2010 3:14:10 PM PST by John D
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To: freedumb2003

You’re ignoring most of the evidence.


39 posted on 01/02/2010 3:14:29 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: freedumb2003; BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; Sun; Coleus; narses; PhilDragoo; ...
the spouse is the only person who is legally allowed to express the stated desires of someone who is unable to think for themselves. You may want the government to think for you and break the law for you, but I think the law is more important than a narrow and political pro-Government agenda.

Florida law at the time of Terri's injury DID NOT allow for dehydration/starvation, so that point is moot.

I realize you are anti-government and pro-anarchy, but government DOES EXIST to protect people.

Unless and until you can produce a witness to gainsay the husband, your entire argument is sophistry and just more pro-Big-Government propaganda.

Here is an affidavit showing the Mikey Schiavo had no idea what Terri wanted:

Affidavit of Trudy Capone

40 posted on 01/02/2010 3:19:17 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: freedumb2003
He did the best he could with meddling parents and other nosey types getting in their personal business.

They weren't involved. They were too involved. They weren't involved. And now we're back to them being too involved again. Okay, what was your point again?

It was you all that introduced the husband’s peccadilloes. My point is they are irrelevant, no matter how much you Nanny-Staters want to bring them up.

No, that was you.

You are very slow. I will go slowly. When you marry, you give up almost all legal ties to your previous family. And if an adult leaves his/her home the legal ties to the original family become tenuous. Marriage severs them altogether.

No, Terri retained the legal right to associate with her family, even after she got married. A marriage license is not a bill of sale.

Of coure, you Nanny Staters will say anything an build any straw man to make sure you defend Big Government to support your political agenda.

You seem to have me confused with someone who supports the government's "right" to order the death of innocent citizens against their wishes.

You can’t embezzle what is yours.

Terri's rehab money belonged to Terri. Her estranged husband was awarded separate funds to compensate him for his alleged loss of consortium. Aside from the fact that he obtained the award through what he later acknowledged was fraud, that part of the money was his. The money he embezzled from Terri's rehab fund was hers. If a marriage license really was a bill of sale, you might have a point, but it isn't.

The parents only started “caring” substantially when there was money involved.

Even Terri's estranged husband admitted that's not true.

41 posted on 01/02/2010 3:21:22 PM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: wagglebee; BykrBayb; freedumb2003
According to the AMA, brain death means “irreversible cessation of the functions of the ENTIRE brain, including brain stem.”

It's no surprise that fd doesn't get that. He doesn't have the foggiest clue what science is really all about.

42 posted on 01/02/2010 3:23:39 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: freedumb2003
I don’t have hate and evil in my heart like you do.

How much hate and evil does it take to want an innocent woman starved and dehydrated to death?

43 posted on 01/02/2010 3:25:12 PM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: wagglebee
According to the AMA, brain death means “irreversible cessation of the functions of the ENTIRE brain, including brain stem.” http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/369/ceja_4i94.pdf

Facts are stubborn things.

44 posted on 01/02/2010 3:27:48 PM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb

The culture of death ALWAYS utilizes emotion to carry out their agenda, look at some of Hitler’s speeches sometime.


45 posted on 01/02/2010 3:30:05 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: freedumb2003; BykrBayb
When you marry, you give up almost all legal ties to your previous family.

And if an adult leaves his/her home the legal ties to the original family become tenuous. Marriage severs them altogether.

Which is it? Giving up *almost all* legal ties? Or *severs them completely*?

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

46 posted on 01/02/2010 3:30:45 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: BykrBayb
A marriage license is not a bill of sale.

Details, details......

47 posted on 01/02/2010 3:33:44 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

>>It’s no surprise that fd doesn’t get that. He doesn’t have the foggiest clue what science is really all about.<<

Says the luddite.

God, you are an evil, hateful and very stupid shrew of a stalker.


48 posted on 01/02/2010 3:37:09 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: freedumb2003; wagglebee

I was pinged to this thread because I’m on the Moral Absolutes ping list.

I’m not following you around looking for your posts, hence not stalking you, for all you false assertions.

This is a public forum and since I was pinged to this thread, I’m free to post on it, and I will to defend other helpless people from liberal deathbots.

BTW, you never answered the questions about why he didn’t just divorce Terri and let her family take over her care, or whether you would like to have someone *bless* you in the same way she was *blessed*, since that’s what you consider a starvation and dehydration death.


49 posted on 01/02/2010 3:41:56 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

>>This is a public forum and since I was pinged to this thread, I’m free to post on it, and I will to defend other helpless people from liberal deathbots.<<

The only liberals on this thread are you Big Government Nanny Liberal Statists (shrews).

>>BTW, you never answered the questions about why he didn’t just divorce Terri and let her family take over her care, or whether you would like to have someone *bless* you in the same way she was *blessed*, since that’s what you consider a starvation and dehydration death.<<

He chose not to. Unlike you Nanny-state fascists, who would push your tiny-brained sensibilities on all you survey, I believe that people can decide for themselves.

As far as “starvation and dehydration” — she was unable to eat and drink. This was merely allowing nature to take its course without interruption. Of course, you Holier Than Thou Big Government types think the Holy Government you worship and kneel to should interfere as long as it supports your narrow political agenda.

You fascists are the worst of the lot. You hateful shrew ones even more so.


50 posted on 01/02/2010 3:46:45 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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