Posted on 01/07/2010 9:17:33 PM PST by STARWISE
Does this Barack Obama birth certificate issue bug you because, although improbable, it's possible that he's not a natural born citizen, isn't eligible to be President under the Constitution, and this issue could be bigger than Watergate -- or any other "gate" in history?
Are you afraid that if you were even to raise the subject with your friends that they will think you wear a tinfoil hat, because Factcheck.org, the final arbiter of truth in the universe, said so?
Are you with the news media, and after spending so much money to get Barack Obama elected, you'd hate to ruin your investment?
Are you a talk radio host who thinks that if you say the burden of proof needed to demonstrate one is eligible to be Commander in Chief should be at least as high as, oh, say, the level to be eligible for Hawaiian homestead status (see 1.F. below), that you'd be forced to give equal time to someone who disagrees?
Are you a conservative, libertarian, or any conscientious constitutionalist from any ideological side of life, who's convinced something's not right, but you're afraid your reputation might be tarnished because, after all, this could be one big Saul-Alinsky-style set-up, and the joke would be on you?
Fear not! Joe the Farmer has prepared an outline showing that no matter how this issue is ultimately resolved, you have legitimate concerns, and that Barack Obama should, simply out of respect for the nation he was elected to lead, disclose the sealed vault copy of his birth certificate.
Given the circumstances, if Barack Obama respected this nation, he would prove it by the simplest and easiest of gestures - unless, of course, all this talk about change and hope was just a bunch of bull, and he's just "another politician." Here's the outline:
1. Under Hawaiian law, it is possible (both legally and illegally) for a person to have been born out of state, yet have a birth certificate on file in the Department of Health.
A. From Hawaii's official Department of Health, Vital Records webpage: "Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country" (applies to adopted children).
B. A parent may register an in-state birth in lieu of certification by a hospital of birth under HRS 338-5.
C. Hawaiian law expressly provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8. A foreign birth presumably would have been recorded by the American consular of the country of birth, and presumably that would be reflected on the Hawaiian birth certificate.
D. Hawaiian law, however, expressly acknowledges that its system is subject to error. See, for example, HRS 338-17.
E. Hawaiian law expressly provides for verification in lieu of certified copy of a birth certificate under HRS 338-14.3.
F. Even the Hawaii Department of Home Lands does not accept a certified copy of a birth certificate as conclusive evidence for its homestead program. From its web site: "In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green.
This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL."
2. Contrary to what you may have read, no document made available to the public, nor any statement by Hawaiian officials, evidences conclusively that Obama was born in Hawaii.
A. Associated Press reported about a statement of Hawaii Health Department Director Dr. Fukino, "State declares Obama birth certificate genuine."
B. That October 31, 2008 statement says that Dr. Fukino "ha[s] personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."
That statement does not, however, verify that Obama was born in Hawaii, and as explained above, under Hawaiian policies and procedures it is quite possible that Hawaii may have a birth record of a person not born in Hawaii. Unlikely, but possible.
C. The document that the Obama campaign released to the public is a certified copy of Obama's birth record, which is not the best evidence since, even under Hawaiian law, the original vault copy is the better evidence. Presumably, the vault record would show whether his birth was registered by a hospital in Hawaii.
D. Without accusing anyone of any wrongdoing, we nevertheless know that some people have gone to great lengths, even in violation of laws, rules and procedures, to confer the many benefits of United States citizenship on themselves and their children.
Given the structure of the Hawaiian law, the fact that a parent may register a birth, and the limited but inherent potential for human error within the system, it is possible that a parent of a child born out-of-state could have registered that birth to confer the benefits of U.S. citizenship, or simply to avoid bureaucratic hassles at that time or later in the child's life.
1. We don't know whether the standards of registration by the Department of Health were more or less stringent in 1961 (the year of Obama's birth) than they are today. However, especially with post-9/11 scrutiny, we do know that there have been instances of fraudulent registrations of foreign births as American births.
2. From a 2004 Department of Justice news release about multiple New Jersey vital statistics employees engaged in schemes to issue birth certificates to foreign-born individuals: "An individual who paid Anderson and her co-conspirators for the service of creating the false birth records could then go to Office of Vital Statistics to receive a birth certificate . . .
As part of the investigation, federal agents executed a search warrant of the HCOVS on Feb. 18, 2004, which resulted in the seizure of hundreds of suspect Certificates of Live Birth which falsely indicated that the named individuals were born in Jersey City, when in fact, they were born outside the United States and were in the United States illegally . . . Bhutta purchased from Goswamy false birth certificates for himself and his three foreign-born children."
3. Even before 9/11, government officials acknowledged the "ease" of obtaining birth certificates fraudulently. From 1999 testimony by one Social Security Administration official: "Furthermore, the identity data contained in Social Security records are only as reliable as the evidence on which the data are based.
The documents that a card applicant must present to establish age, identity, and citizenship, usually a birth certificate and immigration documents-are relatively easy to alter, counterfeit, or obtain fraudulently."
Rest @ link
For Immediate Release: October 31, 2008 08-93
STATEMENT BY DR. CHIYOME FUKINO
“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.
“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures. “No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai‘i.”
For more information, contact:
Janice Okubo
Communications Office
Phone: (808) 586-4442
__________________________________________________
For consideration:
*****************
The following Hawaii state law (Hawaii Revised Statutes S. 338-17.8) allows children who are born outside Hawaii to obtain valid Hawaiian birth certificates, depending on the residency of their parents. This law isn't restricted to those born in the other 49 states; a child could be born in a foreign country and still get a valid HI birth certificate. This law was added in 1982, as confirmed by law librarians at the U. of Hawaii and L.A. County law libraries.
Note the fact that this applies to parents living in the "Territory" of Hawaii, an entity that was dissolved in 1959. If this law had been intended to only include children born in 1982 or later, would they have referred to the "Territory" of Hawaii? Clearly, this was intended to include those born before 1982 as well.
The source is here, and here's the text of that page:
[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.
(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]
~~PING!
Ping a ling...!!
I’ll pick door 4.A.3... a Machiavelli- and Saul-Alinsky-style way to manipulate public opinion.
Until Barry Sotero, AKA Barack Hussein Obama or WHATEVER that bastard calls himself, produces PROOF he is American born, he’s just an impostor to me.
This guy has relatives all over the globe. His flower child mother traveled from the U.S. to Indonesia to Kenya to who knows where in between IF the woman he claims was his mother really WAS his mother.
Soros bankrolled this guy along with the Desert Sheiks. His alleged mother and father died some time ago and his tale about his grandparents in Hawaii doesn’t impress me.
The mainstream media refused to vet him during the election.
ALL of that is a smoking gun pointing towards a fraudulent claim of citizenship.
bttt
I’m with you. He is definitely hiding something and seems to be getting a whole lot of help doing so. I believe the first thing he did as president was to seal those records..but, how come nobody could get them before that?
I personally dont believe he is eligible to be president..and I am not ashamed to admit it.
You read the comments at American Thinker!
ping for reference
The root of the problem is the odd relationship between His mother and his putative father. Have the whereabouts of these two people during the pregnancy been determined ? If so, where and by whom?
Exactamundo!
~~Ping for later
Amen.
GREAT!
thanks for the ping.
NEVER LET UP, NEVER QUIT!
OBAMMY was born in Kenya........his GRANDMAMMY say so!
If the lying bastard can be proven in court NOT to be a natural born citizen AND he can be proven to have DELIBERATELY presented himself as such, it would seem to me:
a) He can be removed from office and,
b) He can be prosecuted for fraud.
I would LOVE to see this bastard spend the rest of his life n a Federal penitentiary.
And who knows. If George Soros can be PROVEN to have aided and abetted this bastard, we can throw HIM in a Federal Pen too! I doubt if he would find an NAZI guards there to suck up to.
where are you?
Yep! It bugs me.
People have been trying their best..any way they can to catch the bastard. It seems nobody can get anywhere.
I think his administration is falling apart. And sometimes, he looks to me like he is having a breakdown. He is awfully skinny.
Maybe he wont last the next 3 years..do they have presidential suites in the looney bin?
Dont be afraid of what you think..especially when you are probably right. Just ask your friends WHY he had his records sealed when we were able to see those of any other president.
Edwin Vieira, Constitutional Lawyer: "at the inauguration. . he's aware he's not a citizen, then it's a perjured oath."
My favorite: "Silence can only be equated with fraud where there is a legal or moral duty to speak or where an inquiry left unanswered would be intentionally misleading." United States v Prudder, 424 F. 2d 1021(5thCir. 1970),cert. denied, 400 U.S. 831 (1970)
What a coward for not showing his Long Form Birth Certificate, not to mention his other bonafides.
As an aside...I read almost every article on threads I reply on. You have to know the topic of conversation.
I read everything from sites like American Thinker.
Barf Alerts rarely get a view.
1 Certified copy of original birth certificate
2 Columbia University transcripts
3 Columbia thesis paper
4 Campaign donor analysis requested by 7 major watchdog groups
5 Harvard University transcripts
6 Illinois State Senate records
7 Illinois State Senate schedule
8 Law practice client list and billing records/summary
9 Locations and names of all half-siblings and step-mother
10 Medical records (only the one page summary released so far)
11 Occidental College Transcripts
12 Parent’s marriage Certificate
13 Record of baptism
14 Selective Service registration records
15 Schedules for trips outside of the United States before 2007
16 Passport records for all passports
17 Scholarly articles
18 SAT and LSAT test scores
19 Access to his grandmother in Kenya
20 List of all campaign workers that are lobbyists
21 Punahou grade school records
22 Noelani Kindergarten records are oddly missing from the the State of Hawaii Department of Education.
23 Page 11 of Stanley Ann Dunham's divorce decree.
Anyone who cares about their country would be very concerned that a POTUS had hidden every scrap of information of his life that he possibly could.
I wonder where Alan Keyes suit is in the courts about the bastard’s citizenship? One of the suits was dismissed, but I think Keyes is still in the Courts.
This article is from 2008 - A.T. has 335 comments. I read the first page.
What bugs me is the Dems were all ready to contest the “natural born citizen” status of McCain.
Exactly where is the dividing line between NBC and non-NBC?
I don’t know. I don’t think there is judicial case law on it, at least for the Presidential elections, and there is an argument that the electoral college is a non-judicial activity. Because the House and Senate have accepted the electors’ ballots, the eligibility may be resolved already. As I said, I don’t know. I am not a lawyer and even lawyers can differ on the finer points of the law.
Very few babies can testify where they were born.
I firmly believe only a Tea party sized event upon Washington with the strong emphasis upon Obamas legal standing to be POTUS will crack the “force field” surrounding him.
Mr. Dunham: I am the only POTUS you got! I'm the damn POTUSfamilias!
Crowd of Citizens: But you ain't bona fide!
/O Brother, Where Art Thou? imitation {;^)
bfl
this is the issue that will not die
I am not sure what happened to his, but I believe some case was supposed to come up in January.
I am losing hope. I do hope they keep trying..but it seems like nothing happens.
let’s see it
Their Long Form Birth Certificate can.
People still seem to be stuck on the "His mom was a citizen so Obama automatically became a citizen." IT'S NOT TRUE.
Obama's mother was too young to pass her American citizenship on to her son IF she gave birth outside the United States. She was eighteen, and the law at that time required that she have resided in the U.S. for at five years after age fourteen.
Here is confirmation of the "five years after age fourteen" requirement in a United States Department of State document from the Department of State website, "U.S. Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual Volume 7 - Consular Affairs":
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86757.pdf
Page 17:
7 FAM 1133.2-2 Original Provisions and Amendments to Section 301
(CT:CON-317; 12-08-2009)a. Section 301 as Effective on December 24, 1952: When enacted in 1952,section 301 required a U.S. citizen married to an alien to have been physically present in the United States for ten years, including five after reaching the age of fourteen, to transmit citizenship to foreign-born children.
Couple that with a fraudulent claim of citizenship and you have a possible conspiracy to defraud the United States.
All Ineligible
All three of the 2008 presidential candidates, Obama (aka Soetoro), McCain, and Calero were not eligible under Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the U.S. Constitution to serve as Commander-in-Chief.
Just like a residential purchase of a home is void if fraud in the inducement (where one party conceals a material fact that if people knew about it ahead of time, they would not enter into a residential purchase of a home), the same thing has occurred with the primaries and presidential election on November 4, 2008.
Because these three candidates (Obama (aka Soetoro), McCain, and Calero) were ineligible under Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the U.S. Constitution, the 2008 presidential election and its results should be voided.
Regardless of what game of charades people in the mainstream media and people within our federal government are trying to pull. That is a legal fact that can not be disputed.
Obama has only one US citizen parent. His father was British subject and a Citizen of Kenya — as was Obama.
McCain was not born in the mainland US. John Sidney McCain III was born at the Colon Hospital, located at Avenida Melendez and 2nd Street, Manzanillo Island, City of Colon, Republic of Panama.
The time of birth on the birth certificate issued by Panama Railroad Company (which owned the Colon Hospital) was 5:25 PM and the day and date of birth was Saturday, August 29, 1936.
Calero was not born in the mainland US. He was born in Nicaragua.
***
Democrats Try To Change The Rules
On February 28, 2008, Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO) introduced a bill to the Senate for consideration. That bill was known as S. 2678: Children of Military Families Natural Born Citizen Act. The bill was co-sponsored by Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL), Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY), Sen. Robert Menendez (D-NJ), and Sen. Thomas Coburn (R-OK).
Bill S. 2678 attempted to change article II, section 1, clause 5 of the Constitution of the United States with reference to the requirements of being a “natural born citizen” and hence; the entitlement to run for President of the United States.
This bill met the same fate that similar attempts to change the Constitution have in the past. Attempts such as The Natural Born Citizen Act were known to have failed and the text scrubbed from the internet, with only a shadow-cached copy left, that only the most curious public can find.
Sen. McCaskill, her co-sponsors, fellow colleagues and legal counsel, contend that the Constitution is ambiguous in article II, section 1 and requires clarification. But does it?
***
Senate Judicial Committee Chairman Says Obama Not Eligible — And Obama Agrees
On April 10, 2008, Sens. Patrick Leahy (D-VT) and Claire McCaskill (D-MO) introduced a resolution expressing the sense of the U.S. Senate that presidential candidate Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) was a ‘natural born Citizen,’ as specified in the Constitution and eligible to run for president.
Sen. McCaskill knew Obama was not a U.S. Citizen, that’s why she introduced this bill — dressing it up to look like it was in Sen. John McCain’s cause.
It was during the bill’s hearing that Sen. Patrick Leahy, Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, made the following statement:
“Because he was born to American citizens, there is no doubt in my mind that Senator McCain is a natural born citizen,” said Leahy. “I expect that this will be a unanimous resolution of the Senate.”
At a Judiciary Committee hearing on April 3, Leahy asked Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, himself a former Federal judge, if he had doubts that McCain was eligible to serve as President.
“My assumption and my understanding is that if you are born of American parents, you are naturally a natural-born American citizen,” Chertoff replied.
“That is mine, too,” said Leahy.
What’s interesting here is that Sen. Leahy, the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary, confirms that a “natural born” citizen is the child of American citizen parents.
Parents — that’s two. That’s BOTH parents.
Every time the words, “citizen” and “parent,” are used by Sen. Leahy and Sec. Chertoff, the plural case, “citizens” and “parents,” is used. The plural case is the operative case.
It is Sen. Leahy’s opinion — his own recorded words, in a formal Senate Resolution and on his U. S. Senate website — that Barack Obama is not a “natural born” citizen, and therefore not eligible to serve as Commander-in-Chief, regardless of his birthplace.
Obama had one American parent —singular — his mother. His father was a citizen of Kenya, and a subject of Great Britain.
Obama, himself, “at birth,” was a citizen of Kenya, and a subject of Great Britain — he says so on his own campaign website. This fact introduces the concept of “divided loyalties,” — the reason the founders created the eligibility requirement in the first place — a fact that further underlines Obama’s ineligibility.
The source of this information is Sen. Leahy’s own website. The webpage contains a statement about the resolution; the resolution, itself; the Statement Of Senator Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.); and an excerpt of Sec. Chertoff’s testimony.
The plural word “parents” is used four times. When used to identify the parents, the word “citizens” is used five times. That’s nine times that Sen. Leahy, on his own website describes the eligibility requirement. There is NO PLACE in any of these four documents where the singular case of “parent” or “citizen” is used.
The real purpose of this bill was to change article II, section 1, clause 5 of the Constitution of the United States with reference to the requirements of being a “natural born citizen” by the Democratic Party leadership — paving the way for an Obama run.
Both Leahy and Chertoff avoid addressing the “in the US mainland” (jus solis) element of the eligibility requirement and focus solely on parentage (Jus sanguinis) in making their arguments and by doing so bring focus to the fundamental reason Obama is not qualified. He had one American parent and one foreign parent. Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen — no matter where he was born.
Obama is a co-signer of this resolution. So, I guess he too agrees that one needs two American parents to be eligible for POTUS — except he doesn’t care — after all, he’s the Obamamessiah. Rules don’t apply to him.
***
35 Or 36
Since the 1870s, assorted Congress critters have attempted to define or redefine “natural born” citizen status nearly 30 times!
There were five attempts to re-define “natural born” citizen status since 2001 — that’s six attempts, if you include Sen. Leahy’s Resolution for McCain in March 2008.
http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm
A lot of people know he is defrauding America, problem is all those in a position of power to do anything about it are too busy trying to take advantage of this and to secure a more lucrative power base.
Collaborators in a polite sense.
Yeah..but it seems nobody can get any action going.
Ya know..in the world we live in today, it seems nothing is a secret. Somebody always uncovers something or other. I just dont get why some crooked person hasnt gotten his hands on any of these hidden documents.
Geeze, they even uncovered that info on global warming..and nobody can get their hands on any of this morons papers? He isnt God. Someone has GOT to know something..or be able to get their hands on something.
Ping
Well, somebody should have made it clear..maybe if they did, we would be dealing with HIM now.
I honestly think someone should fix this and make it absolutely clear...so we dont ever have to go thru this again.
If they want to judge it by the parents..or by the child plus the parents..or just by the child. They should pick something, so there is an absolute law on who can be president and who cant.
Actually, the law doesn't apply only to those in 1982 or later. The law is a little confusing because it is written in compound sentences. If you break it down into its parts ( as I have done in the bold type ) it becomes more clear :
Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
As can be seen, someone today - who was born in 1964 or earlier - can go in and apply for a COLB as long as they can prove the residency requirement of the parent. An adult in 1982 would have been anyone born in 1964 or earlier. Therefore, it clearly doesn't apply to those born only after 1982.
Correction - Well actually someone today who is 18 or older can apply. The 1964 applied to the year 1982 when the law was written.
One approach to learning about our foundations is to read Wolf and Pufendorf and Leibniz, precursors of Vattel. Another is to read the extensive discussions of citizenship in supreme court cases (some lower courts pay little attention to precedent, such as the Indiana Supreme Court in their recent decision which rewrites the History around Chester Arthur).
Legal scholars have spent volumes on citizenship since The Revolution: Alexander Morse, Piggot, Collins, Kent, Story, Desty. Then there are the last ten years. I did not realize there had been five attempts to redefine Article II since 2001. I knew of Orren Hatch, who subsequently forgot his understanding of what it was he tried to change in 2003. Do you include statutes, which cannot, of course, amend The Constitution? What are some other attempt to alter Article II Sect 1?
Being lazy, I usually depend upon a citation in the Herlihy Paper wherein she cites 24 attempts to amend the definition of natural born citizen. She, of course, in her 26 pages, doesn't mention Marshall, or Happersett, or Waite, or Venus, or Hamilton, or Jay, or Washington, but makes the advent of globalism the reason we need to admit children of aliens to the restricted class of presidential qualities.
Has someone preserved the “shadow-cached” bills which have been scrubbed? I, for example, saved the Herlihy Chicago-Kent Law Review article, noting that it was so obviously aimed at supporting an Obama run that it might be useful. Of course it disappeared from the Internet. It must still be on paper in law libraries, so it appears the Obama team is just buying time; until what? Do they expect to have replaced the 1st Amendment? Perhaps.
I think we had his genuine Kenyan birth certificate. Otherwise, why would the lib hackers change the reference numbers and so quickly?
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