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HI Territorial Law 57 (foreign born & HI B.C.'s) - Joint Motion Filled in HOLLISTER v SOETORO
Scribd ^ | 1/7/2010 | rxsid

Posted on 01/08/2010 7:30:02 AM PST by rxsid

In part...

"MOTION TO TAKE JUDICIAL NOTICE OF HAWAIIAN TERRITORIAL STATUTES, THE REVISED LAWS OF HAWAII, CHAPTER 57, “VITAL STATISTICS,” AND THEIR EFFECT

I. THE BACKGROUND OF THE JUDICIAL NOTICE EFFORT TO THIS POINT

The appellant John D. Hemenway previously asked the Court to take judicial notice of certain matters of public and official record, including a statute of the state of Hawaii that was enacted in 1982, § 338-17.8 of the revised laws of Hawaii of that year, and which was entitled” “Certificates for children born out of state.”
...
We thus asked to the Court to take judicial notice of the fact the laws of Hawaii, as late as 1982, and continuing into the present day, allowed then and do allow to this day for a child born out of state to receive something called a “birth certificate,” even though the child was not in fact born in Hawaii but was born outside Hawaii. Thus a Hawaii official might assert that a person had a “birth certificate” that was on file with the state or had been on file with the state but that assertion doesn’t prove that a child was born in Hawaii.
...
The appellees Soetoro a/k/a Obama and Biden did not respond to our motion (It originally was filed by the undersigned on behalf of both himself and appellant Hollister) within the time allowed by the Rules of the Court for responding to a motion. On October 20, 2009, the Court, through the Clerk, issued a Show of Cause to the appellees Soetoro a/k/a /Obama and Biden because of their failure to oppose our first Motion for Judicial Notice with the time allotted by the Rules for a response, saying that the appellees were required to file and show by October 30, 2009
...
The appellees Soetoro a/k/a Obama and Biden did not comply with the October 20, 2009 Order of the Court by showing why they had ignored the Court’s Rules and failed to respond to the initial motion for judicial notice in a timely fashion. They offered no reason for why they had ignored the Rules. Instead they filed a document which badly misrepresented both the law and facts of the historically verifiable meaning of Federal Rule of Evidence 201 and attacked the submissions that we put forward as not being eligible for judicial notice, with the single exception of the statute quoted above. As to that one request, our asking that the Court take judicial notice of the 1982 statute, they did not attack that statute and thereby admitted that it was deserving of judicial notice or at the least waived any right to object to it.
...
In that first motion for judicial notice when we pointed to the above-quoted law of Hawaii of 1982, which is now unopposed and thus acknowledged as appropriate for judicial notice by the appellees, we stated that it was the same as the laws of Hawaii in effect at the time of the birth of the appellee Soetoro/ a/k/a Obama. At that time we were unable to locate, either on the website of the state of Hawaii or in the law libraries of the local law schools a copy of the territorial laws as they were in effect at the time of Soetoro a/ k/a Obama’s birth before the major revision of the state of Hawaii’s laws in 1982. Since that time the undersigned’s support staff has been able to locate a set of those territorial laws of Hawaii as they were published with the authority of the Territory of Hawaii in the years before the birth of the defendant Soetoro a/,k/a Obama and as they continued in effect up through the year that he was born.

II. THE TERRITORIAL LAW 57 AND ITS SIMILARITY TO THE 1982 LAW OF THE STATE OF HAWAII

We attach to this new motion for judicial notice a copy of Chapter 57, “Vital Statistics,” the law concerning these matters as it was in the Territorial laws in question. The statute of the Territory thus attached is from the Revised Laws of the Territory of Hawaii 1955 in Three Volumes as published by the authority of the Territory of Hawaii by the Filmer Brothers Press, 330 Jackson Street, San Francisco, California. These three volumes comprise the statutes of the territory including the acts passed at the regular session of 1955 and the special session of 1956 as consolidated, revised and annotated. As can be seen, because we attach it also and request judicial notice thereof, these three volumes of the statutes of the Territory are certified by the chairman of the compilation commission of the Revised Laws of Hawaii 1955 as appointed by the Governor of the Territory of Hawaii under Act 179 of the Session Laws of Hawaii, 1953.
...

In our earlier motion we were wrong on one point, although the error is in the favor of appellants. The error that we made was due to our not at that time of the filing of the first motion being able to locate a copy of the territorial statutes as in effect before 1982. Upon locating and being able to review the applicable territorial statute we found that it was not exactly the same as the act set out in the major revision and codification of 1982, although similar. What in fact the territorial statute in effect before the 1982 statute sets out is an even greater latitude enabling and entitling persons to register a child for up to a year after its birth and to do so, if not attended by a locally licensed physician or midwife, for the parents or one of them to fill out the birth certificate or for a “local registrar” to fill out a birth certificate “from anyone having knowledge of the birth.” Thus a child born outside of Hawaii and attended by a non-Hawaii licensed health care provider or born unattended could get a Hawaii birth certificate nonetheless. After an initial discussion of that authority we will then request additionally that the Court take judicial notice as a legislative fact of the Act which put into place the 1982 statute which is still in place and which replaced the territorial acts.
...

The specific Act of the state legislature which brought the attached territorial statute up to date and incorporated it into that Code was Act 182 H.B. No. 3016-82. We ask the Court to take judicial notice of that Act as thus passed in 1982 at this time. The actual Act 182 says, inter alia:

Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that the proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
In this way, to quote further from the Act, “state policies and procedures” of Hawaii accommodate even “children born out of State.”
...
V. THE GREATER LATITUDE UNDER THE TERRITORIAL STATUTE TO GET A “BIRTH CERTIFICATE” ALTHOUGH NOT CERTIFIABLY BORN IN HAWAII

We believe that the Court is obligated to take judicial notice of the attached territorial statute and, in doing so take judicial notice that there are ways that a “birth certificate” can have been obtained for a child under that statute that are allowed greater latitude for such a “birth certificate” to have been obtained that would be restricted under the present statute, so that the present statute allows for a child to have been born outside the state and still have been issued a Hawaiian “birth certificate,” but does so without the same breadth of possibilities for that having happened as was possible under the attached territorial statute.

For example, under § 57-9(a) allows for a situation where the official then knows as the “local registrar” can obtain information from “any person having knowledge of the birth” and prepare and file the birth certificate. We ask the Court to take notice of the latitude for inaccurate information that is thus created. Further, § 57-9(b) allows there to be a filing of a certificate of birth on which required information is simply missing and can thus be filed by a “supplementary report” and yet the filing of initially unsupplied information by a “supplementary report is not considered as causing that report with information that was not supplied at the outset to be treated as “delayed” or “altered.” It must be noticed that this creates great latitude for mistakes or even abuse of requirements. Thus, although § 57-18 gives the same time frame—one year—that was incorporated in the 1982 state statute, for a “delayed” or “altered” certificate, the procedures give greater latitude for there to be mistakes and abuse of the procedures and for incomplete information.

This great latitude that allows for mistakes, misinformation, incomplete information and even abuse in turn extends into the requirements for what is put on the birth certificates, or required to be put on them, how they are to be kept and disclosed and all the other aspects of the system."

Complete motion, with HI Territorial Law 57 attachment, here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24948817/Joint-Motion-with-HI-Territorial-Law-57


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: biden; birthcertificate; birthers; certifigate; fraud; hawaii; hi; hollister; ineligible; january; law57; lawsuit; obama; soetoro; usurper
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To: American Constitutionalist

Coupled with all that other crap that came together for this “perfect” storm to have happened, I forgot to mention the massive foreign financial influence on this last (so called) election.


51 posted on 01/08/2010 4:01:07 PM PST by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: Vendome

If people go running around calling themselves “truthers”;
most other people are going to get the wrong idea and think
that they believe the twin towers were imploded by the CIA.
THAT is the commonly used term for those believers.


52 posted on 01/08/2010 4:04:35 PM PST by Repeal The 17th (I AM JIM THOMPSON!)
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To: New Yawk Minute
"I think its good..but it probably wont do us any good.

Looks to me like it says what we already knew"

We suspected that a similar law(s) (to the current 1982 statue) was on the books in 1961...but now we have the actual proof in the form of the actual law. Furthermore, the HI Territorial Law of 57 was even more "generous" than the one from 1982!

The naysayers, OBOTS, kool-aid drinkers (etc) could always refute the claim that HI had laws that allowed foreigners to apply for HI birth certificates...because we didn't have the proof such a law really did exist during 1961. Now we can refute them!

It's really a big discovery.

53 posted on 01/08/2010 4:21:12 PM PST by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: LucyT

Thanks for the ping LucyT


54 posted on 01/08/2010 4:21:49 PM PST by Oorang (Tyranny thrives where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people - Alex Kozinski)
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To: Dryman
"“FREE THE LONG FORM!”"

Yes.

I would add...

HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN?

 

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.
Obama's own campaign web site stated such
55 posted on 01/08/2010 4:26:19 PM PST by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: rxsid

How is Territorial law 57 different from this that is online at Hawaii records? Trolls always ranted the baby had to be a year old or more. But it would make sense if Obama was born in Kenya that SAD came back later?

http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/hawnbirth.html

Who is Eligible to Apply for the Issuance of a Late Birth Certificate in Lieu of a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth?

The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth program was established in 1911, during the territorial era, to register a person born in Hawaii who was one year old or older and whose birth had not been previously registered in Hawaii. The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth Program was terminated in 1972, during the statehood era.

Certified copies of a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth may be requested following the procedures for certified copies of standard birth certificates (see Certified Copies). The eligibility requirements for issuance of a certified copy of a standard birth certificate apply to Certificates of Hawaiian Birth. And the same fees charged for standard birth certificates are charged for Certificates of Hawaiian Birth. Copies of the set of testimony used to establish a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth may also be requested, and an additional fee is charged for each copy of the set of testimony.

Any person to whom a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth has been issued may submit a request to amend an entry, including a legal change of name, on an existing Certificate. A request to amend a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth will, however, be considered to be and treated as an application with the Department of Health for registration of a late certificate of birth in current use, unless a standard birth certificate for that person already exists in the vital records of the Department of Health. Should there be a situation of dual registration, the requested amendment will be made to the standard birth certificate on file if the required documentary evidence in support of the amendment has been submitted and evaluated to be adequate. If there is no standard birth certificate on file, an applicant is required to submit documentary evidence of the birth facts necessary to support of the registration of the late certificate of birth. If approved, the late birth certificate will be registered in place of the Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, which must then be surrendered to the Department of Health.

How to Apply for the Issuance of a Late Birth Certificate in Lieu of a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth
Upon receiving a request to amend an entry on an existing Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, the Registration Unit of the Office of Health Status Monitoring will send:

notification to the requestor that the amendment request is treated as an application for registration of a late certificate of birth, and
instructions on procedures for and submission of required documentary evidence in support of registration of a late certificate of birth.

If the amendment request is subsequently withdrawn, all documents received in support of the amendment will be returned. If the requestor elects to proceed with the application for registration of a late certificate of birth, the documentary evidence submitted in support of registration will be reviewed and evaluated for adequacy. If the application is approved, a late birth certificate will be issued and the original Certificate of Hawaiian Birth issued to the applicant must be surrendered to, for cancellation by, the Department of Health. No filing fee is charged for the late birth certificate.

Hawaii BC types.

http://mijgreb.blogtownhall.com/2009/02/05/exactly_what_kinds_of_birth_records_does_hawaii_provide.thtml


56 posted on 01/08/2010 4:53:52 PM PST by OafOfOffice (Constitution is not neutral.It was designed to take the government off the backs of people-Douglas)
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To: Fred Nerks; LucyT
"The finding of this law is important because it proves that there existed, at the time of Barry's (alleged, 1961) birth, a way for foreign born baby's to obtain a HI birth certificate.

now that's interesting..."

-----------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps, it was by this very law (HI Territorial Law 57), that someone was able to fill out this application (?) for a HI birth certificate that was only ever FILED and never ACCEPTED. Then, when HRS 338-17.8 was passed (in 1982), the record was ammended to coincide with the new updated statue...perhaps triggered by someone needing a copy of the original record for some reason.


57 posted on 01/08/2010 4:56:55 PM PST by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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"What in fact the territorial statute in effect before the 1982 statute sets out is an even greater latitude enabling and entitling persons to register a child for up to a year after its birth and to do so, if not attended by a locally licensed physician or midwife, for the parents or one of them to fill out the birth certificate or for a “local registrar” to fill out a birth certificate “from anyone having knowledge of the birth.” Thus a child born outside of Hawaii and attended by a non-Hawaii licensed health care provider or born unattended could get a Hawaii birth certificate nonetheless."

HI Territorial Law 57

58 posted on 01/08/2010 5:05:35 PM PST by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: rxsid
Yes, I'm as certain as anyone can be, that you have it exactly as it happened, and that someone was the GRANDMOTHER.

But as the evidence suggests, she was unable to obtain an actual CERTIFIED BIRTH CERTIFICATE because she had no supporting documentation.

So the APPLICATION remained FILED.

And what we have been shown is probably an ABSTRACT of the original APPLICATION...and that is also why the initial CoLB shown had no certificate number.

The black rectangle didn't cover a number IMO, the black rectangle was placed there to hide the fact there never was a number at all...

59 posted on 01/08/2010 5:12:02 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: PhilDragoo

see 42

re: the birth cert and “caveman..easy”...is there a photoshop here?


60 posted on 01/08/2010 5:18:30 PM PST by bitt (You can’t make a weak man strong by making a strong man weak (Abraham Lincoln))
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To: rxsid

For more Obama mysteries. As I was looking for old records on this, I came upon a maybe a mystery involving obama’s driver’s license. The DL image is gone due to some violation on photobucket. Still interesting. Why did Obama get a CONT. on his license he renewed months before he won Illinois senate?

Name change? Or just let it lapse?

http://art2sect1clause5.blogspot.com/2009/02/obamas-illinois-drivers-license.html


61 posted on 01/08/2010 5:26:12 PM PST by OafOfOffice (Constitution is not neutral.It was designed to take the government off the backs of people-Douglas)
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To: rxsid

This is the webpage I was looking for. It details how foreign born Sun Yat-sen’s application became a true “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth”

AND

As the decades passed, the “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” Application and Certification process became more formalized. For example, this is the 1946 “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” application from Masayoshi Mitose, credited for having brought Kenpo martial arts to the US in the 1930s

http://art2sect1clause5.blogspot.com/2008/11/obamas-missing-link-hawaiian-birth_28.html


62 posted on 01/08/2010 5:29:19 PM PST by OafOfOffice (Constitution is not neutral.It was designed to take the government off the backs of people-Douglas)
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To: rxsid
And don't miss this one. Much more at link.

http://art2sect1clause5.blogspot.com/

Here are some comments of the Kenyan Parliament from Nov. 5, 2008, on the morning after Barack Obama win of the US Presidential election on Nov. 4

Dr. Khalwale: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You have heard none other than the Leader of Government Business acknowledge that because of Obama's win in the United States of America (USA), the House is crippled. Could we allow him to move a Motion for Adjournment so that we could also continue the celebrations of having a Kenyan ruling the USA? I humbly request!

The Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs (Mr. Musyoka): … As we do, as you said from the Chair, this is a sovereign country. We know we can learn a lot. To be able to support that blood relation, I think we owe it to ourselves to make sure that we have a peaceful country as Kenyans; a country that will uphold the true principles of the rule of law, democracy and tolerance between ourselves At the beginning of this year, Senator Barrack Obama called me at midnight and told me: "Mr. Vice President, could you make sure you sort out this problem?" I want to assure him that the problem has since been sorted out.

63 posted on 01/08/2010 5:37:52 PM PST by OafOfOffice (Constitution is not neutral.It was designed to take the government off the backs of people-Douglas)
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To: Fred Nerks; LucyT; rxsid; potlatch; Kenny Bunk; BP2

57,58,59

oh, bruddah!


64 posted on 01/08/2010 5:48:26 PM PST by bitt (You can’t make a weak man strong by making a strong man weak (Abraham Lincoln))
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To: OafOfOffice

Here is the form that could have been used with just a photograph attached of his likeness.

http://sites.google.com/site/obamabirth/Home/obama-short-form-birth-certificate

In this Typewritten Certificate of Hawaiian Birth dated March 14, 1904, Dr. Sun Yat-Sen signed an affidavit that he was born in Hawaii on Nov. 24, 1870 (in reality he was born in China in 1866).

Of course, this is not true bec Sun Yat-Sen, the Father of Modern China, was born in China.

Sun Yat-sen was born on 12 November 1866, to a peasant family in the village of Cuiheng, Xiangshan county , Guangzhou prefecture, Guangdong province (26 km or 16 miles north of Macau).

After receiving a few years of local school, at age thirteen, Sun went to live with his elder brother, Sun Mei, in Honolulu.

Sun Mei, who was fifteen years Sun Yat-sen’s senior, had emigrated to Hawaii as a laborer and had become a prosperous merchant. Though Sun Mei was not always supportive of Sun’s later revolutionary activities, he supported his brother financially, allowing Sun to give up his professional career.

Sun Yat-sen studied at the prestigious Iolani School where he learned English, mathematics and science. Originally unable to speak the English language, Sun Yat-sen picked up the language so quickly that he received a prize for outstanding achievement in English from King David Kalakaua.

He became a citizen of the United States and was issued an American passport. It is unclear whether or not he maintained his original citizenship as a subject of the Qing empire.

After attending Iolani School in 1882,[2] Sun enrolled in Oahu College (now Punahou School) for further studies for one semester, from which he graduated.[3]. He was soon sent home to China as his brother was becoming afraid that Sun Yat-sen was about to embrace Christianity. While at Iolani, he befriended Tong Phong, who later founded the First Chinese-American Bank.


65 posted on 01/08/2010 5:48:59 PM PST by OafOfOffice (Constitution is not neutral.It was designed to take the government off the backs of people-Douglas)
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To: Repeal The 17th

Next thing you know we will have people running around acting like they are President of the United States. /s

I understand your point and most of us don’t actually care what we are called.

We do want to what to call that guy in the White House.


66 posted on 01/08/2010 5:51:06 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: bitt

Thanks bitt. I started out following this closely but kinda gave up when it was one disappointment after another. Now I am so far behind in ‘information’ that I’d hesitate to even ask a question, lol.


67 posted on 01/08/2010 6:22:23 PM PST by potlatch
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To: Fred Nerks; LucyT; rxsid; potlatch; Kenny Bunk; BP2
“Yes, I'm as certain as anyone can be, that you have it exactly as it happened, and that someone was the GRANDMOTHER.

“But as the evidence suggests, she was unable to obtain an actual CERTIFIED BIRTH CERTIFICATE because she had no supporting documentation.

“So the APPLICATION remained FILED.”

I agree. The fact that this application was filed with an “unknown” allegedly Kenya birth location could have opened the door for Obama to come in some time after 1982 (whenever it was advantageous for him to do it) and request an amendment to show a Honolulu birth location based on “new evidence” perhaps provided by his mom or grandma.

This explains how the amendment that D’Onofrio believes he established in the vital record index release could have occurred solely to change the birth location without any need for an adoption related change. The document appears to have been unaltered from the date filed up to the time that the 1982 statutory notation was made, which seems to preclude any adoption amendment to the record during the period prior to 1982 when a Soetoro adoption would have occurred.

The next question is how to get the person who has this document (Ohio lawyer, was it?) to turn it over to a lawyer who can get it in front of a judge. Hemenway's Hollister case is a long shot. D'Onofrio's quo warranto discovery might force HI to produce the original, if D'Onofrio gets standing.

68 posted on 01/08/2010 7:09:53 PM PST by Seizethecarp
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To: Seizethecarp
The next question is how to get the person who has this document (Ohio lawyer, was it?) to turn it over to a lawyer who can get it in front of a judge. Hemenway's Hollister case is a long shot. D'Onofrio's quo warranto discovery might force HI to produce the original, if D'Onofrio gets standing.

Now to find that 'Ohio Lawyer' who was he?

69 posted on 01/08/2010 8:26:45 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Seizethecarp; rxsid

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24001567/Obama-BC-GMom

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2405994/posts?q=1&;page=1#1

still looking for the Lawyer.


70 posted on 01/08/2010 8:45:43 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: rxsid; Seizethecarp

here we go...

The Blaine Document
October 19, 2009 by John Charlton

WILLIAM BLAINE RELEASES PURPORTED OBAMA CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH
by John Charlton

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2366539/posts?page=161#161


71 posted on 01/08/2010 9:38:28 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2366539/posts?page=164#164

http://lawyers.legalhelpmate.com/OH-Lawyer-William-Blaine-88782.aspx


72 posted on 01/08/2010 9:46:28 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Fred Nerks; rxsid; LucyT
Thanks Fred! You beat me to it! William Blaine in Ohio, that's the alleged source.

The good news is that it is in the hands of John Charlton who is currently wired directly into D'Onofrio (back together after a big dust-up for which D'Onofrio apologized). D'Onofrio and the Chrysler dealers may have access to a copy of this document as backup for their quo warranto discovery effort, depending on the degree to which Blaine can provide provenance.

In the Post & E-Mail story at the link (below) is a statement from Kerchner that he and Apuzzo believe this is a hoax, but they appear to fail to understand that bureaucrats can fish a document out of the file long after it is placed in the file to add statutory notations, such as the one for the 1982 statute.

And there is a clear reason for this notation being added after 1982 as a footnote to the Honolulu "birth location" to clarify that the actual birth hospital was in Kenya, per the hospital field entry.

From the link to the story at your link:

http://thepostnemail.wordpress.com/2009/10/19/the-blaine-document/

Commander Charles Kerchner, issued this statement:

"Atty Mario Apuzzo and I believe it is a forgery and a fraud … probably done by some Obot to get our side scurrying around with it. The biggest reason we think it is a fraud is because the Hawaiian statute cited in the lower right corner as the version with the “.8″ amendment on the end, i.e., 338.17.8 did not exist in 1961. It was added to the statute in 1982. That jumped out at me right away. 338.17.8 did not apply to Obama in 1961 because it did not exist in the law books yet. But the registration of out of state children was permitted in 1961 under older laws such as the one in 1911 and another in 1955, as I recall off the top of my head. But since this doc is citing 338.17.8 it cannot be the initial or original birth registration document."

73 posted on 01/08/2010 10:07:33 PM PST by Seizethecarp
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To: rxsid
The Obots , anti birthers are in their loony bins trying to figure out a way to spin this one Hawaii 57 ...
74 posted on 01/08/2010 10:22:22 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (There is no civility in the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USA)
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To: rxsid

” FILED “ and “ ACCEPTED “ has 2 different meanings ...


75 posted on 01/08/2010 10:31:17 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (There is no civility in the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USA)
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To: American Constitutionalist
"” FILED “ and “ ACCEPTED “ has 2 different meanings ..."

Yeah, sure does. Just look at Barry's world famous, alleged, short form.

Say's FILED and not ACCEPTED.

76 posted on 01/08/2010 10:43:03 PM PST by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: rxsid

Pretty exciting stuff. Slow and steady wins the race. The legal process is slow and tedious; unfortunately, we have a form of national ADD.

Over the past many months it’s been so frustrating seeing banner headlines proclaiming: Judge sets trial! When that was merely an administrative action. Or an attorney running around saying she’d be deposing Obama in 30 days. All of it nonsense. (I am STILL getting the occasional email forward that there’s a trial later this month in CA).

It will be interesting to see what happens from here. If Soetoro/Obama’s attorneys didn’t answer the earlier motion for judicial notice, will they respond to this one? Did they count on this old law never being found? Why isn’t it available online either at the official HI website or Cornell’s? Or, apparently, in any of the DC law school libraries? And, how will the court deal with it?


77 posted on 01/08/2010 10:52:45 PM PST by EDINVA
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To: EDINVA
" If Soetoro/Obama’s attorneys didn’t answer the earlier motion for judicial notice "

If one side does not answer a motion, doesn't that mean that they don't contest it ? and if they don't contest it, what implications would that have ?
78 posted on 01/08/2010 10:58:01 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (There is no civility in the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USA)
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To: potlatch

I’m with ya - BUT...

we seem to be getting closer to TSHTF moments...(gee, I like that shortened expressive bunch of letters!)

so start paying attention to the pings - I’ll send to you if there’s something really cool you’re not reacting to...


79 posted on 01/08/2010 11:32:05 PM PST by bitt (You can’t make a weak man strong by making a strong man weak (Abraham Lincoln))
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To: American Constitutionalist

Yes, typically if a motion is not opposed, whatever the ‘relief’ being sought might be, is granted.

BUT, in reading the above excerpt, it sounds like Soetoro/Obama didn’t answer an earlier motion for judicial notice. The court ordered them to ‘show cause’ and explain why they didn’t respond. According to Hemenway, they filed something called a show of cause, that wasn’t actually a show of cause. So, having not answered, presumably because they had no objection, the court still required them to respond, rather than granting the ‘relief’ sought. It seems they were offered another ‘bite of the apple.”

I don’t think the Soetoro/Obama team has much cared to date about what is filed. So far, they have been aided not only by the courts, but by some of those challenging his eligibility, who were more visible than others. They are convinced that no judge will take on a case about the eligibility of this historic president, and that’s all they need. Hopefully, some judge or judges will force the issue and not be concerned with the political aspect so much as the legal.


80 posted on 01/08/2010 11:35:04 PM PST by EDINVA
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To: Seizethecarp
And there is a clear reason for this notation being added after 1982 as a footnote to the Honolulu "birth location" to clarify that the actual birth hospital was in Kenya, per the hospital field entry.

So, who will let them know they have been mistaken?

81 posted on 01/09/2010 12:02:11 AM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: EDINVA
"Over the past many months it’s been so frustrating seeing banner headlines proclaiming: Judge sets trial! When that was merely an administrative action. Or an attorney running around saying she’d be deposing Obama in 30 days. All of it nonsense. (I am STILL getting the occasional email forward that there’s a trial later this month in CA)."

Yes. Unfortunately, the work of an inexperienced lawyer...who definitely has a "big heart", but is just too green with the whole process.

"Did they count on this old law never being found?"

I suspect they thought it wouldn't be located in a timely fashion.

"Why isn’t it available online either at the official HI website or Cornell’s? Or, apparently, in any of the DC law school libraries?"

Great questions. IMO, it appears to be a relatively obscure legal book, that most would not normally pay too much attention to. Not too much call for that book, outside this issue. Many folks concerned with this issue have been searching for it, for some time now.

82 posted on 01/09/2010 12:42:37 AM PST by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: OafOfOffice
I had run across those articles (& COLB pics) of both Sun Yat Sen as well as Mitose, in late 08, and had been posting the info on various boards. Problem was, the OBOTS would always state that the 1911 law that was in place for Mitose (or earlier law for Sen) would not have been in place in 1961. So, it would always lead to a "so what, doesn't apply to Obama" response.

That all changes now with being able to point to the specific law on the books that WOULD apply to a 1961 Barry birth.

The truth eventually makes it's way to the light of day. Hopefully, more truth will do so sooner rather than later.

83 posted on 01/09/2010 12:49:54 AM PST by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: American Constitutionalist
For reference:

Date Accepted by State Registrar (1930)

 

Another Date Accepted by State Registrar (1977)

 

And of course, Barry's Date Filed by Registrar

84 posted on 01/09/2010 1:04:25 AM PST by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: LucyT; BP2; STARWISE; Red Steel; pissant; hoosiermama; null and void; Amityschild; Calpernia; ...
"Spokesman deflects question about birth hospital
'I don't believe I saw any pool reports'

Posted: January 08, 2010
8:34 pm Eastern

President Obama's official spokesman deflected a question today about the president's alleged place of birth.

At the White House press briefing, Les Kinsolving, WND's correspondent there, asked, "While he was in Hawaii, did the president visit the hospital where he was reportedly born, which is which one?"

Spokesman Robert Gibb deflected.

"I don't believe I saw any pool reports of hospital visits," he said.
..."

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=121417

85 posted on 01/09/2010 1:50:44 AM PST by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: OafOfOffice

I first got an OR driver’s license in 1982. It lapsed at some point, and in 1992 I got another one. It has the date 1982 as the first time I got an OR licenese (can’t remember what the exact wording is). So even though it lapsed, it still says the first date I got an OR license. I’ll have to look at another state DL I have to see if it’s the same on that one.

It sounds as thought 1995 is the first IL DL he got with that name.


86 posted on 01/09/2010 2:57:59 AM PST by little jeremiah (Asato Ma Sad Gamaya Tamaso Ma Jyotir Gamaya)
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To: rxsid

Its unavailability made me wonder if Sandy Berger was on the case!


87 posted on 01/09/2010 7:49:25 AM PST by EDINVA
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To: Fred Nerks
“So, who will let them know they have been mistaken?”

I suspect this may be a bit of psy-ops by Apuzzo and Kerchner to create the impression that they don’t take it seriously. It seems too obvious to me that the footnote and reference to the 1982 statute could have been added later. Amendments and corrections are to be made to the face of the document in the file per the statute.

At this point, it is not Apuzzo and Kerchner or Hemenway and Hollister that matter, but D’Onofrio and the Chrysler dealers. p>

D’Onofrio was in the dual citizen-only camp claiming that non-US birth was CT, but he suddenly became extremely interested in the birth location a few months ago. Going back to last March Apuzzo and D’Onofrio were aligned briefly against trying to gain release of Obama’s HI BC:

D’Onofrio quoted from The Right Side of Life:

“I contacted Mario after both reading his pleadings in the Kerchner v. Obama case, and listening to his interviews. I was impressed by the level of detail his pleadings brought forth. The intelligence and passion for the Constitution shown by Mr. Apuzzo and his plaintiff, Mr. Kerchner, were evident in the interviews they have given. They both recognize that the main issue is centered on Obama being a British Subject and that the birth certificate issue, while important, is ancillary to Obama’s admission that the British Nationality Act of 1948 governed his birth status regardless of whether he was born in Hawaii.”

http://www.therightsideoflife.com/2009/03/04/quo-warranto-donofrio-apuzzo-team-up-on-challenging-the-presidents-authority/

Hmmm...D’Onofrio’s interest in Obama’s BC may well have started at about the same time this Blaine BC appeared! Could the Blaine BC, provided to D’Onofrio by Charlton, have inspired D’Onofrio’s sudden interest in the HI vital record index?

In my expectation, Hemenway’s Law 57 request for judicial notice, while important to get on the record, won’t get him standing. Only D’Onofrio seems to have a chance to gain quo warranto standing (per Judge Carter...refuted by DOJ), so I am daring to get a bit hopeful that D’Onofrio has the Blaine BC and is prepared to use it or gain discovery of it.

88 posted on 01/09/2010 8:33:22 AM PST by Seizethecarp
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To: LucyT

PTL for that!!!


89 posted on 01/09/2010 8:54:51 AM PST by danamco
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To: Seizethecarp

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2422326/posts

Read the first paragraph after the elipses. It says that the judge below acknowledged having jurisdiction (i.e., Hollister had standing) based on interpleader laws. That is subject to review/reversal by the Court of Appeals, but at this time, (as I understand it) Hollister DOES have standing.

Maybe a lawyer can clarify, but that is my understanding.


90 posted on 01/09/2010 9:01:44 AM PST by EDINVA
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To: curiosity

interesting post


91 posted on 01/09/2010 9:14:30 AM PST by Kenny Bunk (The eligibility topic is closed (for me) until after Writs of Quo Warranto hearings are held.)
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To: SvenMagnussen

Hey Sven, the whole Indonesian deal, as salacious and evidentiary of our man’s fraudulent character as it may be, has nuthin’ to do with nuthin”.


92 posted on 01/09/2010 9:18:25 AM PST by Kenny Bunk (The eligibility topic is closed (for me) until after Writs of Quo Warranto hearings are held.)
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To: EDINVA
“Read the first paragraph after the elipses. It says that the judge below acknowledged having jurisdiction (i.e., Hollister had standing) based on interpleader laws.”

My understanding (not a lawyer) is that jurisdiction is the ability of the court to hear the matter while standing is the eligibility of the plaintiff to bring the matter to that court. These are two distinct, separate gates that a case must get through. One is applied to the court, the other to the plaintiff.

When a court rules it has jurisdiction over the subject matter of a case, that has no effect on whether a particular plainfiff has standing to bring that subject matter against a particular defendant. That is a separate matter for the court to decide before the case can proceed to trial.

Prior to inauguration, lots of courts decided that they had jurisdiction to hear eligibility cases, but none to my knowledge, granted standing. Either the plaintiff was ineligible or the defendant was the wrong defendant or the court was unable to fashion a remedy, or the issue “wasn't ripe” because the electors hadn't voted etc.

Now that the inauguration has passed, and no challenge was perfected (filed and served) in the two weeks or so between when the electors voted and the inauguration, one federal judge, Judge Carter says that only a quo warranto in the DC Circuit is available as a jurisdiction to challenge Obama’s eligibilitiy. That quo warranto jurisdiction, if accepted by the DC Circuit, will then still require a separate assessment by the Circuit as to whether any plaintiff has standing to bring the quo warranto.

93 posted on 01/09/2010 9:37:24 AM PST by Seizethecarp
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To: EDINVA; Seizethecarp
"http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2422326/posts

Read the first paragraph after the elipses. It says that the judge below acknowledged having jurisdiction (i.e., Hollister had standing) based on interpleader laws. That is subject to review/reversal by the Court of Appeals, but at this time, (as I understand it) Hollister DOES have standing.

Maybe a lawyer can clarify, but that is my understanding."

Right. Attorney Hemenway show's in their reply brief why/how the lower court found standing and thus jurisdiction. The case was dismissed for "lack of claim."

Regarding Donofrio...I read a response from him early on that on the Chrysler case...he was only proceeding with the clients "best interest's" in mind and that they (the clients) were not primarily concerned with the eligibility issue. As I read it, a QW would only be filled IF the BK case did not result in the dealers having their dealerships re-instated. We heard some chatter out there that this past week was going to be the week that the QW was going to be filed. It appears that didn't happen, as it also appears that the QW will only be filed after the BK case(s) fails to result in the dealers getting their business back (or perhaps some other "deal" for compensation).

94 posted on 01/09/2010 9:39:28 AM PST by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: rxsid
“Attorney Hemenway show’s in their reply brief why/how the lower court found standing and thus jurisdiction. The case was dismissed for ‘lack of claim.’”

“Lack of claim” is an element of standing applied to the plaintiff, not an element of jurisdiction applied to the court.

Once jurisdiction is accepted by the court, to gain standing, one of the elements the plaintiff must show the court is a claim in controversy that the court can remedy. “Failure to state a claim” is legal shorthand for failure to request a remedy or lack of remedy that the court can apply within its jurisdiction.

It appears to me that once Obama was inaugurated, the court where Hollister filed lost jurisdiction. Only a limited category of plaintiffs (not appearing to include Hollister) can currently have standing to challenge Obama’s eligibility in quo warranto in the DC Circuit.

95 posted on 01/09/2010 10:10:25 AM PST by Seizethecarp
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To: little jeremiah

When my son gets up I will look at his. He accidentally let his lapse. Moving and stuff.

I think you can drive on a out of state DL for a certain period of time usually. Cont. could mean continued from out of state license?!

What I find interesting is the timing he decided to get his Illinois DL. Maybe the name was Soetoro too.


96 posted on 01/09/2010 10:23:55 AM PST by OafOfOffice (Constitution is not neutral.It was designed to take the government off the backs of people-Douglas)
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To: rxsid
“Regarding Donofrio...I read a response from him early on that on the Chrysler case...he was only proceeding with the clients “best interest's” in mind and that they (the clients) were not primarily concerned with the eligibility issue. As I read it, a QW would only be filled IF the BK case did not result in the dealers having their dealerships reinstated.”

I have been worried about this. If the government, acting to protect Obama, offered a sufficient cash settlement and the dealers took it, quo warranto would almost certainly be dropped by the dealers as a condition of the settlement.

BTW, The dealers don't want to reopen their dealerships, they want settlement money, per the lead plaintiff. The Chrysler dealerships were shut down immediately, unlike the GM dealerships that are on a phased schedule that can be canceled by arbitration.

It is possible that the quo warranto has been put on hold and kept as a threat to motivate a cash settlement, but Anderer, the Chrysler dealer seen on Cavuto really seemed to want to punish Obama and didn't seem likely to settle for a few pennies on the dollar for having his franchise given to a competitor who was a Democrat contributor.

It is not at all clear how meaningful funding for a settlement could be obtained from the legal entity that is still in bankruptcy. The bankruptcy judge would have to admit a huge mistake (a fraud on the court said D’Onofrio) and the redistribute the assets of the bankrupt entity taking away assets allocated to other creditors and giving them to the Chrysler dealers. I just don't see the wherewithal for a settlement there for the Chrysler dealers.

At a minimum, any settlement would take time lots of court proceedings. D’Onofrio was fully aware of this when he said he would file the quo warranto right around New Years Day. If you look at the 12-29-09 interview with Anderer on Cavuto that game is very much on and I thought I saw a “quo warranton” gleam in Anderer’s eye.

There could be many reasons why D’Onofrio might want to delay quo warranto for a few days or weeks to tweak it to make it better. Also for maximum publicity impact, the world isn't really back from the holidays until this Monday. Quo warranto isn't much good as a threat to pressure for a cash settlement unless it can actually get filed in the DC Circuit with arguments that some portion of the Obama DOJ team regards as credible. So I fully expect that it is coming soon.

97 posted on 01/09/2010 10:32:19 AM PST by Seizethecarp
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To: rxsid
Same as you I posted them and got similar responses. That does not stop me but I do think they have been posted on freerepublic before so I stopped knowing the knowledge was out there for researchers.But this way those who had not seen it will put the pieces together.

The other night however, I noticed the wording on the 1982 revision which also included territorial Hawaii. Then I realized at any point in time Obama's parents could have filled out forms for Obama's citizenship. Not natural born citizenship, but citizenship.

provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

Thanks for your posting of this by the way.

98 posted on 01/09/2010 10:33:25 AM PST by OafOfOffice (Constitution is not neutral.It was designed to take the government off the backs of people-Douglas)
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To: Fred Nerks

Perhaps this has already been discussed, but, if so, I missed it:

I find it very interesting that the purported source of this document is named “Blaine,” which is also the middle name of one of those who signed it.

Relatives? Could the signatory still be alive and have access to the original?

Long shot, but very interesting.


99 posted on 01/09/2010 10:58:21 AM PST by Jedidah
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To: Seizethecarp
If the government, acting to protect Obama, offered a sufficient cash settlement and the dealers took it, quo warranto would almost certainly be dropped by the dealers as a condition of the settlement.

Ethically speaking, Donofrio is obliged to represent his clients. If they are made whole in an out of court settlement, The WQW would not be necessary, nor necessarily in their best interests. This one's about car dealers' money, not about usurpation of office

The fact that the threat of a WQO might work to spring the cash might be useful in a future case.

100 posted on 01/09/2010 11:01:21 AM PST by Kenny Bunk (The eligibility topic is closed (for me) until after Writs of Quo Warranto hearings are held.)
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