Posted on 01/19/2010 7:16:10 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld
Israel's intelligence community has determined that Hamas was developing a capability to fire rocket salvos.
The sources said Hamas, with increased help from Iran and Hizbullah, was seeking to enhance the accuracy of Palestinian unguided missiles and rockets as well as connect batteries to a command and control system. They said Hamas has accumulated more than 5,000 missiles and rockets in the aftermath of the 2009 war with Israel. In 2009, Hamas tested its first rocket with a range of 60 kilometers, the sources said. They said Hamas has acquired at least 50 Iranian-origin Fajr-3 rockets, modified to contain a range of up to 80 kilometers, sufficient to strike Tel Aviv as well as Israel's nuclear facility in Dimona.
(Excerpt) Read more at worldtribune.com ...
Then that’s a massive failure by Israeli intelligence.
I agree.
Sounds like a reason for Israel to obliterate Hamas. Better to beg for forgiveness then ask for permission.
Now that Egypt is building its anti-tunnel wall, every rocket Hamas loses, in whatever way, will be much harder to replace. Though Israel is activating its Iron Dome system, this is more likely against serious missiles launched from Lebanon or Syria than harassment missiles launched from the Gaza Strip.
For those, it is hard to beat the C-RAM system, which is a modified Phalanx anti missile Gatling gun. It is noisy, but very effective, even though the tinkerers want to make a laser version of it. Yet Israel is hesitant to deploy it.
Which makes me wonder why Tel Aviv dislikes Sderot so.
You do have to scratch your head and say, ok whose responsible for letting this happen?
If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.
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RE: C-RAM system.
Isn’t the problem there related to US not wanting to give the Isralies access to our Software like with the F35?
That is understandable given someone/s in Israel reportedly sold some of our technologies before to bad actors for cash.
Haven’t we deployed troops before to man Patriot Missle Batterys in Israel? I believe we did during the Iraqi Conflicts.
However, with the new alignment of our Hemmoroid N Chef. I doubt if that would go as an option. Have to admit though even P.Bush sent trainers to teach HAMAS “Law Enforcement” Didn’t we give them some M16s and such as well? Stupid is as Stupid does.
Well considering Clintoon sent SF in to teach AQ and Muslim Fighters how to kill Christians in Bosnia.. I guess we should not be suprised by anything our “Leaders” do anymore..
I still await in vain the kind of relief effort for the poor whites in Appalachia or rural blacks and whites in Mississippi etc that I see for Hati..
W
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1180867542904&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull
“While the C-RAM is fully operational and would be available for immediate deployment in, say, Sderot, which has been hit by hundreds of Kassam rockets over the past three weeks, Israel’s Defense Ministry has decided not to purchase the system. Instead, it is investing its resources in the “Iron Dome” - an antirocket missile system under development by the Rafael Armament Development Authority and expected to be operational by 2011.”
“But sources in the Defense Ministry said the C-RAM system was checked by its Research & Development Directorate (MAFAT) and was found to be unsuitable for Sderot. While recognizing the C-Ram’s relatively high success rate, defense officials told the Post the system could only protect isolated areas of several hundred square meters.”
This makes no sense whatsoever. C-Ram isn’t designed to defend a square area, but as a shield. Sderot if 4.5 square kilometers, but this means that the side facing Gaza, with some overlap, would be about 5 km.
C-Ram maximum range is about 4km. One C-Ram would easily shield that entire side of Sderot, especially from low tech Qassam rockets and mortar rounds.
So the bottom line is simple. Likely the government in Tel Aviv doesn’t like the city of Sderot, for political reasons. Otherwise, the city could probably easily raise the $15M to buy a C-Ram themselves, unless the national government prevents the purchase, which I suspect it would.
While I personally could care and in fact consider it a bonus.. No doubt one of their concerns even if they could get their hands on them or get the US to man a boatload full of them along the border.. Those rounds fired still follow the laws of physics and land somewhere... no doubt they would hit some poor “Innocent”.. Now my solution seems more correct.. Using Counterbattery Radar mark the locations and return artillery fire at the locations where the missles are fired from.. Build a list of previous locations where the rockets or mortar rounds origin.. Put them on a preplanned fire list.. everytime a rocket or mortar round lands in Israel.. Don’t just engage in counterbattery fire.. hit a percentage of all the other previous positions. That would make those locations uninhabitable.. Keep it up even one round fired per location would be sufficient. Soon enough you would see an Older Acned saying “hey fire that thing from somewhere other than my back yard.”
I agree with Land for Peace.. For every day they do not fire on Israel, a bomb does not explode murdering kids in a Pizza Parlour a Mom and her little girls are not gunned down... one of the sites where attacks originate is stricken from the list.. Send Abu notice in the mail that he can use it again.. at least until the next attack from Abu’s “friends”.
Carrot and Stick lol
W
There is already a solution to C-Ram “round fall”, in that the rounds are midair explosive, so only light frag hits the ground. Which just goes to show what lengths the Israelis will go to avoid collateral damage.
However, “land for peace” is a different idea altogether.
“Muslim land” acquisition, or at least “Muslim land” retention is one of the very few tangible ways a Muslim can be a “good Muslim”. Inherent in this is the concept that once land has had “the Muslim flag” flown over it, it is forever Muslim land. Eventually, all the land in the world will be “Muslim land”.
There have recently even been claims to at least part of Spain, that it is being “occupied” by “infidels”, and must be “returned” to Muslims, who have not lived there for over 500 years.
This creates a paradox when Israelis try to negotiate with Muslims. Because the Israelis will offer the thousand, ten thousand things that Jews enjoy in life, in exchange for peace. But the Muslims are focused on just one thing. They want the land. All of it. Every square inch of Israel. And nothing else matters. All diplomacy, promises, threats, lies, etc., are to this end.
The solution to the paradox is for the Israelis to negotiate like the Russians. Offer nothing. At the start, take away what is most precious from whoever you are negotiating with. And never return it, but threaten that unless they do what you want, you will take away *more* of whatever is precious to them.
It is a critical part of this strategy that what is taken is never, ever returned. Even if it is wasted or destroyed, if it is returned the strategy fails. It must be forfeit forever.
So when attacked, Israel must take some land. Now no one who does not know “the Russian strategy”, will assume that the return of that land should be the first thing in the negotiations. This means most of the rest of the world will demand that Israel return it. But they must be adamant.
At this point, the Muslims would lose their marbles. They would freak out and threaten, demand, promise, offer, and otherwise do whatever it takes to get that land back, even if it is just an acre or two. The rest of the world would take their side, thinking that the land is “nothing”, so why bother?
But if the Israelis do give up that sliver of land, the Muslims will go wild. They will see it as a sign of weakness, and a directive to redouble their attacks, in the hope of getting more land.
Yet if the Israelis were stubborn as mules, and crystal clear that this land was gone “forever”, that it would never, ever, be “Muslim land” again, and most importantly, that if the Muslims kept it up, *more* land would be taken, quickly the Muslims would fold.
This would terrify them. The prospect of losing even more “Muslim land” is worse than the idea of having their family killed. They will have failed themselves, their family, their people, and every other Muslim.
That is such a horrifying prospect, that even peace with Jews is better. Besides, they would figure, maybe in a few years the Jews would forget the strategy, and the Muslims could connive their land back.
Honestly....the Russians are (and have been...their government anyhow) thugs, and mule stubborn. It goes completely against Jewish and western character to take land...and never return it—because after all it is only dirt, as you said.
The “Russian strategy” will never fly in Israel.
What it’s going to take is a big war...with one side or the other totally crushed and utterly humiliated—UNABLE to make trouble for the other side.
Precision strikes and civilian-careful tactics will not do it.
Not necessarily war, but the equivalent of “ethnic cleansing”, no matter how it happens. There is something called the “$20B deal” that puts this into perspective.
For just $20B, Israel could expel every Palestinian in the Gaza Strip into Egypt, giving each and every man, woman and child the equivalent of three years of the normal Egyptian annual wage. That is, a family of seven would get the equivalent of 21 years of full time work in Egypt, all at once, just to now live in Egypt. This would make most every Palestinian family middle class, by Egyptian standards.
It would not be given to the Palestinian leaders, who regularly steal the money meant for their people, but to the people directly.
And this would leave Gaza empty. But it wouldn’t stay that way. Israel could then move many of the Israeli Arabs to Gaza, giving them all that land for free. Most Israeli Arabs are not unhappy living in Israel, and far prefer it to living in Palestinian lands or another country.
Gaza would be completely absorbed by Israel, but it would be an Arab land. And Israel would then guard the border with Egypt, so no ex Gaza Palestinians could return or smuggle in anything, and no Israeli Arabs to smuggle out anything.
The Gaza Strip would finally be at peace, and the Israelis could have a clean conscience about not doing harm.
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