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So. Baptists detained in Haiti on mission to aid children
BAPTIST PRESS ^ | BAPTIST PRESS

Posted on 02/01/2010 5:58:01 PM PST by Dubya

MERIDIAN, Idaho (BP)--Members of two Southern Baptist churches in Idaho are awaiting word on what a Haitian judge will decide Feb. 1 when he hears the case of 10 Americans accused of unlawfully trying to remove 33 children from Haiti.

Five of the 10 are members of Central Valley Baptist Church in Meridian, Idaho, and three are from Eastside Baptist Church in Twin Falls, including Eastside's pastor, Paul Thompson. Two others are believed to be from other states.

(Excerpt) Read more at bpnews.net ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: haiti; haitirelief; laurasilsby; missionaries; orphans; southernbaptist
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1 posted on 02/01/2010 5:58:01 PM PST by Dubya
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To: Dubya

This is certain to increase donations to Haiti.....not.


2 posted on 02/01/2010 6:02:33 PM PST by topfile
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To: Dubya

Southern Baptist in Idaho, that has to be a heck of a mission field...Haiti now that is another story why they think they could have gotten away with sneaking children out of Haiti, I have not clue


3 posted on 02/01/2010 6:03:18 PM PST by wild74
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To: Dubya

I read that Rendell brought $500,000 payoff to Haiti to bring the children out of that hellhole.

These people merely wanted to bring the babies to Dominican Republic. Guess they didn’t pay off enough people.


4 posted on 02/01/2010 6:06:38 PM PST by Carley (Are you better off now than one year ago? HELL NO!!!!!)
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To: Dubya
From what I heard this evening, the hearing scheduled for today has been postponed.

I'm sure Obama will send some extra...uh...aid in exchange for these folks’ release.

5 posted on 02/01/2010 6:07:03 PM PST by fatnotlazy
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To: wild74

They were not sneaking the children out. They were trying to move them to the Dominican Republic orphanage and they believed their paper work was in order.


6 posted on 02/01/2010 6:07:36 PM PST by svcw (Ellie and Mark come out come out where ever you are.....)
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To: Dubya

The lunatic anti-Christian wing of the MSM is trying to portray these folks as ‘human traffickers’ on a level with slave traders. All they are trying to do is help a bunch of kids out in a very difficult situation. There’s nothing to indicate anything less in any of the information on the group. God bless them and may the ridiculous broken-down bureaucracy of Haiti not get in the way of others trying to bring help.


7 posted on 02/01/2010 6:09:58 PM PST by Liberty1970 (Democrats are not in control. God is. And Thank God for that!)
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To: wild74

They weren’t trying to sneak them anywhere. They had all the paperwork and were taking them to a reputable orphanage in DR, but the government changed the rules couple of days ago and apparently when they got to the border, they didn’t have a permit that didn’t even exist at the time they began the project.

This is all a show by the Haitian government. They know perfectly well that teh Baptist group is not involved in child trafficking, most of which takes place right in Haiti and involves Haitians only, but they wanted to hang some white Americans out to dry, and they found them.


8 posted on 02/01/2010 6:11:23 PM PST by livius
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To: Dubya

I am going to pray for these people big time!

Baptist church’s don’t send missions to countries in need of help so that they can kidnap children. This is simply horrible!

No good deed goes unpunished! But, that shouldn’t stop us from helping others anyway!

I do feel for them and hope that God gets them through this.


9 posted on 02/01/2010 6:18:53 PM PST by Mrs. Frogjerk
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To: Dubya

The news is that they were “trafficking” ... didn’t sound right to me. Local news had the missionaries pics plastered all over their newscast.

No good deed goes unpunished. Things are extremely bad for children in Haiti. Recently, orphanages were raided for supplies by armed looter bandits. Worse than snatching purses off of old ladies, in my view.

Good grief. Those corrupt idiots in Haiti think everyone has the low standards of their population rather than the welfare of innocent children in mind.


10 posted on 02/01/2010 6:20:20 PM PST by La Enchiladita ( This must be what it feels like to live in a monarchy when some little kid becomes king ...)
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To: Dubya
Previous story about the Baptists:

U.S. Baptists arrested in Haitian Orphan Incident

They had paperwork from the Dominican Republic, but not from Haiti, and no paperwork showing that the "orphans" were orphans.

11 posted on 02/01/2010 6:22:08 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: livius; All
U.S. missionaries reject Haiti child-traffic charges
12 posted on 02/01/2010 6:22:12 PM PST by La Enchiladita ( This must be what it feels like to live in a monarchy when some little kid becomes king ...)
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To: Dubya
All the hub-bub on the "news" about Haiti's gov't being little more than a shell and display after the earthquake.

But, apparently there is just enough gov't left to falsely accuse some Christians and embezzle aid. Now, if only they would talk publicly about raising taxes and healthscare deform, 0 could appoint some foreign relations czars.

13 posted on 02/01/2010 6:25:08 PM PST by Repeat Offender (While the wicked stand confounded, call me with Thy Saints surrounded)
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To: wild74
According to what I've read, the orphanage in Haiti collapsed, and they were transporting the children to the group's other (undamaged) orphanage on another part of the island, i.e. the Dominican Republic. They had been told that, due to the children's immediate needs and the urgency of the situation, the paperwork could be completed from the DR side, then were stopped at the border.

If I were a betting person, I would bet that it's a matter of not having given sufficiently big bribes to a sufficiently large number of Haitian government kleptocrats. Sorry if this offends anybody, but that's the way it is.

14 posted on 02/01/2010 6:25:19 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("God bless the child who's got his own." Arthur Herzog Jr./Billie Holiday)
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To: fatnotlazy

Oh yeah... any minute now....tick, tick, tick.....


15 posted on 02/01/2010 6:25:20 PM PST by La Enchiladita ( This must be what it feels like to live in a monarchy when some little kid becomes king ...)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

IOW, they can’t take care of their own children but will sell them for a ransom and call the good-hearted missionaries “traffickers.” What scum.


16 posted on 02/01/2010 6:28:07 PM PST by La Enchiladita ( This must be what it feels like to live in a monarchy when some little kid becomes king ...)
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To: livius
re: they wanted to hang some white Americans out to dry)))

Why? I mean, I think you're right, but what for? Are they signaling that you can't rescue a Haitian kid without bribing the thugs first?

17 posted on 02/01/2010 6:29:57 PM PST by Mamzelle (Who is Kenneth Gladney? (Don't forget to bring your cameras))
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To: livius; wild74

****”But Laura Sillsby from the Idaho group told Reuters from a jail cell at Haiti’s Judicial Police headquarters, “We had permission from the Dominican Republic government to bring the children to an orphanage that we have there.”

“We have a Baptist minister here (in Port-au-Prince) whose orphanage totally collapsed and he asked us to take the children to the orphanage in the Dominican Republic,” Sillsby added.

“I was going to come back here to do the paperwork,” Sillsby said.”***

Woman arrested states no paperwork.

So what paperwork you just mentioned was in order if Sillsby stated she was coming back to do the paperwork?


18 posted on 02/01/2010 6:46:16 PM PST by VicVega (who dat-brett favre blew dat. GEAUX SAINTS)
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To: VicVega

Seems like a lot of confusion


19 posted on 02/01/2010 6:48:51 PM PST by wild74
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To: Dubya

Amazing,these people really look like kidnappers. And to think of all the aid the American people are giving and they throw our people in a Haitian prison! The children of this country are bartered like cattle, this is a joke.


20 posted on 02/01/2010 6:49:39 PM PST by ohiogrammy (12)
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To: wild74

Agree.


21 posted on 02/01/2010 6:51:58 PM PST by VicVega (who dat-brett favre blew dat. GEAUX SAINTS)
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To: Liberty1970

I’ve heard the same thing from the MSM - that they were engaged in “human trafficking”. PLEASE!!! These Baptists are the most unlikely people for trafficking that I could imagine.

Once again, the old adage “no good deed goes unpunished” applies here!


22 posted on 02/01/2010 6:59:14 PM PST by Joann37
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To: VicVega

They apparently had everything they thought they needed to cross into the DR. There was a new “presidential decree” that created a need for new paperwork, but it wasn’t clear that they couldn’t go into the DR (to a well-known, established orphanage) with what they already had.


23 posted on 02/01/2010 7:21:09 PM PST by livius
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To: Mamzelle

I think it’s just simply that nothing in Haiti is ever Haiti’s fault. Their problem with child trafficking involves Haitians (most of them relatively well-off), but rather than take responsibility for this, they have to find somebody else to pin it on.

That’s the story of Haiti’s life, and is the reason it’s such a miserable hole.


24 posted on 02/01/2010 7:22:51 PM PST by livius
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To: livius

They supposedly had a “permission slip” from DR to bring in kids.

They didn’t have “paperwork” needed to take the kids out.

This is from one of the women in the group.

So we can write all day long about this and brides and such not paid, but the fact is they had “NO” paperwork.

I appreciate the gentleman from Haiti who stopped them.

Hopefully the priest who gave them “permission” by word, will show up and clear the matter up so these folks can move on.

Bet next time they will have proper paperwork needed to cross borders with one or more person(s), in this case children.

No telling what would have happened when they arrived at Immigration with 33 undocumented children and no paperwork.

They may have ended up in jail there with our without the permission slips.

Good luck to them.


25 posted on 02/01/2010 7:30:48 PM PST by VicVega (who dat-brett favre blew dat. GEAUX SAINTS)
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To: VicVega

There are varying accounts from various people in the group, obviously depending on their level of involvement with the paperwork end of it. Even the Haitian government admitted that it had changed the regulations suddenly last week.

What is undeniable is that there was no intention to “kidnap” these children, “traffick” in them, or do anything remotely like that, and both you and the Haitian government are fully aware of that.

This was all for show, so that Haiti could distract attention from its own self-created problems and point to evil foreigners.


26 posted on 02/01/2010 7:43:53 PM PST by livius
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To: AdmSmith; Berosus; bigheadfred; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; ...
...awaiting word on what a Haitian judge will decide Feb. 1 when he hears the case of 10 Americans accused of unlawfully trying to remove 33 children from Haiti.
Thanks Dubya.
27 posted on 02/01/2010 7:47:10 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Happy New Year! Freedom is Priceless.)
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To: livius
"and both you and the Haitian government are fully aware of that."

I don't know that nor do I need you thinking for me.

What we know is there was no paperwork and the one of the spokespersons claimed she would return to Haiti to get the proper PW.

What leveldo you think she was at if she was to return?

Probably not at the lowest level.

As I wrote before, let the priest vouch for them and get them out of their pickle.

28 posted on 02/01/2010 7:55:03 PM PST by VicVega (who dat-brett favre blew dat. GEAUX SAINTS)
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To: svcw; livius

Ummm, no, they didn’t believe their paperwork was in order. The group’s spokeswoman freely admitted they hadn’t even attempted to get any permission from the Haitian government. They apparently had permission from the Dominican Republic to bring a group of children IN, but they knew full well they didn’t have permission from Haiti to take any children OUT.

As for where they were planning to take them, frankly it sounds like a classic illegal adoption-for-profit scheme, designed to compete aggressively with other illegal and legal adoption sources. From Fox News: “The Idaho churches had elaborate plans before the earthquake to shelter up to 200 Haitian and Dominican boys and girls in the Magante beach resort, complete with a school and chapel as well as villas and a seaside cafe catering to adoptive U.S. parents.” http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584423,00.html?test=latestnews

I don’t think there’s a legal adoption source anywhere in the world that can afford to set up anything like a “seaside cafe” as a marketing tool. And why would you plan (before the earthquake) to take children out of their native country to another country, in order to have them adopted by people from yet a third country? I’m afraid I know the answer — it’s easier to obscure the children’s real family situation and real route to the adoption agency when you’ve already got them out of the country where their family resides, and especially when you get them out of the country by sketchy means, such as getting the children from a pastor who vaguely explains that they were left with him “by distant relatives”.

That said, I strongly suspect that *some* of the church members who were in the arrested group honestly didn’t realize that they’d been suckered into helping with an illegal adoption business. The ring-leaders of such businesses know better than to take that many people into their confidence, and churches are a good place to find naive well-meaning people who’ll join in something like this, and provide a lot of free labor, while also helping make it look legitimate.


29 posted on 02/01/2010 8:25:45 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: VicVega

Yeah Vic, I agree with you, they should have just let those kids there to die, then we wouldn’t have had this paperwork problem.

ps: no, I don’t really agree with you.


30 posted on 02/01/2010 8:28:54 PM PST by Newtoidaho (Liberals are nothing more than drooling buffoons. Spread the word.)
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To: VicVega
Bet next time they will have proper paperwork needed to cross borders with one or more person(s), in this case children.

No way are any of these people *ever* going to get permission to take a single child across a border again, at least not from any country that makes any effort at all to prevent child trafficking. Nor will they ever get permission to operate an adoption agency inside any such country. I'm sure any permission they had from the Dominican government to operate an orphanage and arrange adoptions there is in the process of being revoked.

31 posted on 02/01/2010 8:31:10 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: Newtoidaho

Can’t just take people out of a country without paperwork.

You’re assuming also the kids would have died if not taken by these people.

We can all jump to conclusions but I’ll stick with the facts and that is these people had no legal claim to these children.

Leads one to question the organization itself.

Glad they were stopped.

If it’s on the up and up the priest will appear and vouch for these folks and the kids can go to DR.


32 posted on 02/01/2010 9:14:29 PM PST by VicVega (who dat-brett favre blew dat. GEAUX SAINTS)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Well, then that counters the interview I heard on the radio today by the pastor.


33 posted on 02/01/2010 9:32:46 PM PST by svcw (Ellie and Mark come out come out where ever you are.....)
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To: Dubya

I can’t see what’s in this for Haiti...poor PR saavy

it’s obvious these are baby traders


34 posted on 02/01/2010 9:34:01 PM PST by wardaddy (Book of Eli.....awesome.....Denzel Washington was perfect....Mila Kunis is smoking..nothing PC)
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To: svcw

Which pastor? The one who heads the Idaho church? He’s carefully distancing himself, pointing out that the mission was not a church-sponsored activity, but that the church had “gotten involved” because the mission was organized by two of its members. He may want to keep distancing himself . . . further. Of the two members, one is 40 year old Laura Silsby, who has a sufficiently sketchy financial history that she certainly shouldn’t be allowed to collect donations at a church for an organization she’s really in complete control of. The other organizer, Charisa Coulter, is a mere 24 years old, and probably just taking orders from Silsby. Neither has any prior experience whatsoever with managing orphanages or arranging adoptions.

“The mission was organized through the nonprofit New Life Children’s Refuge, which Silsby incorporated in Idaho on Nov. 25. . . . Silsby, 40, acknowledged on Sunday that she hadn’t obtained the proper Haitian documents for the children, whose names were written on pink tape on their shirts during their bus ride to the border. Public records show Silsby also owns Personal Shopper Inc., an online shopping assistance company. Incorporation papers for New Life Children’s Refuge show they were sent from the company’s fax machine. Silsby’s records also show she personally has some unpaid state tax bills dating to 2003 and other debt from civil judgments and state tax liens filed by the state against Personal Shopper Inc. She owes more than $1,300 to the state in back taxes; the biggest civil judgment is for $4,500 in 2009, owed to a Boise law firm.” http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-us-haiti-idaho-church,0,4160212.story


35 posted on 02/01/2010 10:18:08 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Seems you are a lot more informed than most of us on this thread.

I just read what was first reported and the statements by Silsby and her own admissions of not having proper documentation.

Felt it was bizarre.

Thanks for the additional information. Helpful to read.


36 posted on 02/01/2010 10:52:10 PM PST by VicVega (who dat-brett favre blew dat. GEAUX SAINTS)
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To: wardaddy
"it’s obvious these are baby traders"

Hope your wrong, but your probably right.

Just glad they were detained till they can sort out the lack of paperwork for the kids.

37 posted on 02/01/2010 10:57:40 PM PST by VicVega (who dat-brett favre blew dat. GEAUX SAINTS)
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To: VicVega

I’ve been doing a little surfing around. I really think the organizers of this thing knew they were engaging in a totally illegal operation and that their only motive was profit. Hard to say at this point whether any of the others realized what they were involved in. The Idaho church certainly should have done a basic background check on these two women, who had zero experience with orphanages or adoptions, before letting them collect donations on church property. Amazingly, their Dominican Republic-based lawyer is now whining to the media about how “disturbing” it is that his clients are being held in a building which lacks air conditioning. He could use some PR training, to say the least. He also might be interested to learn about Ms. Silsby’s unpaid legal bills back in Idaho.

Apart from the 18 year old girl, who was brought along by her father and probably had no clue and no real choice in the matter, I’m happy for all of them to sweat it out in their un-air-conditioned makeshift prison until they make it to the top of the Haitian government’s massively long priority list, which they ought to be near the bottom of. Even if some of them really thought this was a legitimate charitable mission, they need to learn to do some basic investigating before they run off to foreign countries to help with some vague orphanage/adoption scheme run by somebody they don’t actually know.


38 posted on 02/01/2010 11:11:58 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: VicVega

More: http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/02/02/haiti.border.arrests/index.html

Silsby’s claim about having gotten all the children from a Haitian pastor, who had in turn gotten them from “distant relatives”, is collapsing fast and hard.


39 posted on 02/01/2010 11:42:25 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: GovernmentShrinker

So the feel good story of Silsby helping out orphans is just not holding up?

Appears she is the shady one and not the Haiti Gov., in this particular case.

LIke you, I would think some had really good intentions to join a group to go and help the children in Haiti.

Unfortunately they may have hooked up with the wrong person. In this case, Silsby.

Going to take some time to sort out for the folks that joined Silsby and were misled.

Thanks again for the research.

Helpful to me and I hope others that wanted to blame the folks in Haiti.

Who knows maybe the guy who stopped them at the border saved the lives of these kids.


40 posted on 02/02/2010 12:22:50 AM PST by VicVega (who dat-brett favre blew dat. GEAUX SAINTS)
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To: Dubya

Early morning Boston CBS news reports that MA is flying in ‘Haitian refugees’; they’re not saying how many planeloads. Good news from Fla.’s perspective, since up to now Fla. has been the main (only?) state where they’ve been flying them in. Fla. residents complained loudly — who’s going to support them? Is this another Mariel Boat Lift? Crime wave goes up and up, etc.. Evidently Obama took a look at Fla.’s electoral votes and called his BFF, MA. Gov. Deval Patrick. Willy nilly, here they come. (It would have been nice if Patrick had asked MA. residents if they would like to open the state to Haitian refugees.)


41 posted on 02/02/2010 3:44:55 AM PST by hershey
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Listen, all I am telling you is what I heard in the interview. If facts are changing so be it.


42 posted on 02/02/2010 6:00:13 AM PST by svcw (Ellie and Mark come out come out where ever you are.....)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
According to what I've read, the orphanage in Haiti collapsed, and they were transporting the children to the group's other (undamaged) orphanage on another part of the island, i.e. the Dominican Republic

_________________________________________

Except that some of the kids were not even orphans and are now back with their legitimate families.

43 posted on 02/02/2010 6:09:37 AM PST by wtc911 ("How you gonna get down that hill?")
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To: VicVega; livius
A. The group itself said that they were going to 'go back at a later time' to get the proper paperwork done.

B. Some of the kids were not even orphans and have been returned to their legitimate families.

When I was a cop one of the things I learned is to be especially attentive to anyone carrying a Bible and swearing that he was doing God's work. Nearly every con-man in certain areas hid behind the Good Book.

I'm not saying these people were anything worse than well-intentioned fools but I'm not buying their story without question either.

44 posted on 02/02/2010 6:14:54 AM PST by wtc911 ("How you gonna get down that hill?")
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To: wtc911; livius; GovernmentShrinker; Newtoidaho; wild74; svcw

Some great points wtc911.

Just because I’m carrying a christian banner, doesn’t make me a legitimate person or organization.

I think GovernmentShrinker has some of the best information regarding this story and especially one of the spokespeople, Laura Silsby. Thanks for the research.

People are doing or trying to do some great work over there. Some who may have good intentions go about it the wrong way.

I again congratulate the Immigration folks who stopped these folks from crossing.

Understand that some of the kids have been returned to their parents.


45 posted on 02/02/2010 6:47:45 AM PST by VicVega (who dat-brett favre blew dat. GEAUX SAINTS)
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To: wtc911
I appreciate the information, wtc. Do you have a link on some of these kids being returned to parents?

Also, I just used my computer's search/find function on this page, and I can't find any use of the word "priest" in the article or by anybody on this thread except you.

Help me out here. You're saying there was a priest involved? Once more, do you have a link?

Thanks again.

46 posted on 02/02/2010 7:43:12 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Point of clarification.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
I didn't use the word priest, that was some other freeper.

About the children (some) not being orphans, that was reported in various places but the word I trust most on it is my wife's cousin's. She actually runs an orphanage in Haiti (all the children were killed). Word from her is that these kids were not all orphans.

47 posted on 02/02/2010 8:22:51 AM PST by wtc911 ("How you gonna get down that hill?")
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To: VicVega
I again congratulate the Immigration folks who stopped these folks from crossing.

Yes, I'm really impressed, given 1) the total chaos that presently reigns in Haiti, and 2) the established culture of official corruption there, that Silsby wasn't able to sail on through with the children just by lightly greasing a few palms. I suspect that may have been her plan, since she didn't even have so much as fake authorization documents, much less real ones, to present to immigration officials at the border.

48 posted on 02/02/2010 8:53:21 AM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: VicVega

I meant to say not baby traders...lol...sorry


49 posted on 02/02/2010 9:04:17 AM PST by wardaddy (Book of Eli.....awesome.....Denzel Washington was perfect....Mila Kunis is smoking..nothing PC)
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To: GovernmentShrinker; wtc911; livius; Newtoidaho; wild74; svcw; wardaddy

GovernmentShrinker:

Let me start by saying, you and I will probably end up disagreeing on other topics here on FR, but as for as this thread, I have agreed with you about 100%. Always need room to wiggle. LOL

To add to your case, below is a link to a yahoo article.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100202/ts_alt_afp/haitiquakechildrenuscrime


50 posted on 02/02/2010 10:58:44 AM PST by VicVega ( GEAUX SAINTS)
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