Posted on 02/13/2010 9:35:17 AM PST by Politically Correct
Wait until they come after our 401k’s ....
Don’t wait, cash them out if you’re worried. Take the hit now, better to have 80% than 0%.
Interesting points.
Now, what happens if a state wants to secede from the union? What happens to their pro-rata share of the national debt, unfunded liabilities such as Social Security, etc.? Do their residents still have a claim on benefits such as Social Security? Does that state have to take on their share of the national debt as the price of exiting the union?
There are lots of practical questions which come up with talk of secession, such as national defense, and what to do about military bases in states that secede.
I can imagine, though, that once a state decides to do this, it could provoke a flood of states leaving, if it were decided that the seceding states were out from under the national debt and unfunded liabilities, and that the debt was the responsibility of only the states that stayed in the union.
I’ll be 25 next month ... just starting out ....
Why did our Founders move away from the Articles of Confederation and go with the current Constitution and Bill of Rights?
Only problem, all states are as corrupt as the Federal Government and many are even more so.
And there’s a part of me which says that any attempt at secession this time around would not see the same response as it did with Lincoln. I could easily see the Obama-style Democrat simply unable to make the decision to fight for the integrity of the country, as Lincoln perceived the battle, and by time a decision was made, those people in the free states would have already established their right to govern.
The other, darker part of me, could also easily see the Obama-style Democrat labeling any such an effort as a “terrorist” action and then launching a nuclear warhead towards any state capital which seeks that kind of autonomy. At that point, it’ll be a crap shoot whether or not the military will actually follow the order.
Another alternative is equally dark - secession becoming the threat that Lincoln and others warned about, with Balkanized enclaves everywhere, mayhem and fighting among states and quasi-state entities, and people seceeding from the original state and then people inside that group seceeding again. ACORN and the Black Panthers ruling Philadephia; the Chicago machine finally showing its Marxist colors; folks in the Dakotas living among heaps of rotting grain unable to get the food to market; the border with Mexico, in places unguarded, swarming with the Reconquista. Maybe Lincoln wasn’t so wrong after all.
I would like to see the Czechoslovakia plan, personally. The states gather. Your group goes one way; our group goes the other way; we sign an agreement and call it day. Let the left maintain their little kingdoms along the California coast and the Great Lakes and the Northeast, and allow those of us who want limited government and liberty to reform our nation from Alaska to Texas.
I guess we’ll just see. When I keep hearing the word “secession” over and over and over, something is going on.
Now, what happens if a state wants to secede from the union? What happens to their pro-rata share of the national debt, unfunded liabilities such as Social Security, etc.? Do their residents still have a claim on benefits such as Social Security? Does that state have to take on their share of the national debt as the price of exiting the union?
There are lots of practical questions which come up with talk of secession, such as national defense, and what to do about military bases in states that secede.
I can imagine, though, that once a state decides to do this, it could provoke a flood of states leaving, if it were decided that the seceding states were out from under the national debt and unfunded liabilities, and that the debt was the responsibility of only the states that stayed in the union.
Lots of questions to which I have no answers.
Realize, that I'm not advocating this particular course of action.
Just noting that it is being talked about.
It’s easier to deal with handful of tyrants a few miles away than a legion of them a few thousand miles away.
I'll believe it when I see it. Americans did nothing when the National Firearms Act was passed. Veterans of WWI did nothing after the Bonus Army incident.
I'm a young guy, but all this talk seems to me to be chest beating. I'll only believe it when I see concrete action.
If Russia is any indication of what we might expect, one could anticipate a spike in organized crime rising up after the collapse.
This is my conundrum. I have a bit over $100k and am out of work. I really don't see any hope of finding a job that paid anywhere near what I was making in CT.
My wife has a real good job. We have two young children.
My thinking is this: If I leave it in and wait till I am 65 (fifteen years) the taxes on withdrawal will equal the penalty now, IMO.
I was lucky. I put the money in the money market before the crash and actually made about 3% last year but lost nothing the year before.
I just hate the idea of giving up about 45% of my cash in one fell swoop.
Government’s already thinking about confiscating them soon. Articles on FR last week about this. Basically taking them over, making them a giant pool (fund), 12 trillion, and then as you hit retirement giving you stipends (annuitizing). They wnat the 12 trillion in real money to pay off debts and buy stuff. Nobody needs all their money at once so they figure they’ll have time to earn the interest and pay it back, whatever they spend. They’ll just owe you, they are good for it. It’s like starting social security II, only with your money this time.
And if you’re not working now and don’t think you wil be, it’s the best time to take it out because it won’t push you into a higher tax bracket. Figure they hold 20%, you’ll have 80K as income for the year. Minus deductibles and such and there ya go. Just live really frugally. But at least you’ll have your money out before you may not be able to take it out, or they increase the penalty for taking all of it out.
Like it would be worse than the organized crime of the Obummer administration and this congress?
Yeah, there’s one more thing, too. The trouble with “collapse” is that is often followed by “authoritarian overreaction.”
I think I prefer the Jeffersonians way of dealing with Fedzilla. They did what they needed to, including firing Supreme Court justices to restore intended constitutional balance that was distored by the Federalist notion of government on a whim.
The second coming of Fedzilla was dealt with in much the same way as described in this article, and I don’t believe it resulted in putting it in its place, but rather empowering it and spawning progessive intellectualism. Secession and defeat are not the answer, but the pathway to something even more terrible than we can imagine.
>>>I’m a young guy, but all this talk seems to me to be chest beating. I’ll only believe it when I see concrete action.<<<
You’re right. One of the alternatives is just slowly sinking into authoritarianism, or worse, while people do nothing. It’s one of the alternatives... probably one of the saddest, too. Your point is spot on, though.
civil war would follow quickly I imagine. Urban areas would quickly descend into anarachy once the free money ran out.
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