Skip to comments.Wall St. Helped Greece to Mask Debt Fueling Europe’s Crisis(Goldman Sachs implicated again)
Posted on 02/14/2010 4:07:25 AM PST by TigerLikesRooster
February 14, 2010
Wall St. Helped Greece to Mask Debt Fueling Europes Crisis
By LOUISE STORY, LANDON THOMAS Jr. and NELSON D. SCHWARTZ
Wall Street tactics akin to the ones that fostered subprime mortgages in America have worsened the financial crisis shaking Greece and undermining the euro by enabling European governments to hide their mounting debts.
As worries over Greece rattle world markets, records and interviews show that with Wall Streets help, the nation engaged in a decade-long effort to skirt European debt limits. One deal created by Goldman Sachs helped obscure billions in debt from the budget overseers in Brussels.
Even as the crisis was nearing the flashpoint, banks were searching for ways to help Greece forestall the day of reckoning. In early November three months before Athens became the epicenter of global financial anxiety a team from Goldman Sachs arrived in the ancient city with a very modern proposition for a government struggling to pay its bills, according to two people who were briefed on the meeting.
The bankers, led by Goldmans president, Gary D. Cohn, held out a financing instrument that would have pushed debt from Greeces health care system far into the future, much as when strapped homeowners take out second mortgages to pay off their credit cards.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
What do you mean, implicated? They’re just providing the services that the customers are looking to buy.
Same thing can be said about subprimes, and AIG's CDS. It is the nature of transaction which matters. Complicit in the arrangement of hiding debts and overleveraging.
enabling European governments to hide their mounting debts.We need rules I tell ya gotta have rules./s
and we should believe the New York Times because.... ???
It has become fashionable to use free economy and anti-liberal sentiment as a cover for (usually pro-liberal) financial oligarchy's misdeed.
...because in this case it is correct.
Honestly, they have a HUGE tax evasion problem out there. The whole southern europe is culturally predisposed against paying any kind of taxes at all, and noone has any qualms commiting blatant tax evasion crimes that people go to prison over here. The inept governments have had very little success clamping down on it. Heck in some places they advertise on billboards “please pay your taxes, it pays for the schools and hospitals”.
Has a democratic country done this before, made transactions above a certain amount illegal, anyone recall?
What do you mean, implicated? Theyre just providing the services that the customers are looking to buy.........
Same as meth and crack dealers
Maybe it’s just me, but I find what Greece has just done frickin’ scary....
You have been asleep
The Goldman Sachs/Greece connection is all over the news. Not just the NY Times.
I’m not up to speed I guess, I don’t trust the
New York Times to tell me what time it is much
less news and events of the world... sorry
Pinch should just go eat a cr_p sandwich.. there I said it.
Maybe southern Europe needs to switch over to a vastly superior and cheap to implement taxation system like this:
I'm surprised somebody in Europe hasn't read this book and figured out that by no longer taxing the process of earning money, the local economy would literally rocket upward because you attract foreign companies to set up operations in your country. Mind you, Switzerland won't like this because it would kill much of their offshore financial center banking business, though.
According to recent Chicago Trib article the following debt exists as a percent of GDP:
Japan Iceland Italy Greece Belgium
197% 145% 127% 123% 105%
France US Canada Germany
92% 86% 82% 92%
How bad off are we? I duno. How bad off is everyone else? The same or worse. Possible solutions? World war?
How do you get a planet full of people to pull their head out of their ass?
Do you know where I can get a fiddle for the impending fire?
The first thing to do is to secure a place where you can play fiddle. It may be harder than getting a fiddle, because just about everywhere would be on fire.
Absolutely. Just like drug dealers. Consequences to society at large be damned...profit is king.
like casino operators.
"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."
-~~Ludwig Von Mises
Remember, democracy never lasts long, said Adams. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.
Added Jefferson, A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51 percent of the people may take away the rights of the other 49. Madison agreed: Democracy is the most vile form of government.
Travis, we’re good for another 40-50 years before we go the way of the British Empire. We could pay our DEBT back double if we wanted too. Not. Those with the BIG GUNS make the rules (world). The good news is we won’t be here in 40-50 years. Well at least me anyways...
Aren’t you glad we are a Republic ?
If we can keep it.
so Germany’s agenda is to throw Greece under the bus and the NYT agenda is to throw Goldman (and Sachs) under the bus (for Acorn and Obama)... so who’s complicit now? Ya know, bankers often are accused of ‘doing their job’! GS just does their job better than anyone else!
So following this tradition, you, GS, and others keep on doing your job. Let's see what the "god's work" leads to.
It is a form of 'Bust Out.' Taxpayers all over the world would have to foot the bill from this fallout in the end.
One Problem Moving To China: Millions hungry - less arable land per capita than one of the poorest countries in the world - Bangladesh, plus if you’ve been to PRC you wouldn’t want to live there. China is its own ticking time bomb 1 billion 300 million and they keep screwing themselves away from the dinner table every nano-second.
>> Consequences to society at large be damned...profit is king.
Yes, but profits for kings.
And let’s stop giving capitalism a bad name by labeling the array of shenanigans as “Crony Capitalism”. Subsidizing broken and corrupt systems with taxpayer funding is no form of capitalism.
Does Greece have a VAT?
That’s like the ‘Fair Tax,’ but with the added virtue of a characteristic European bureaucracy whose deleterious effects are (as always) out of proportion to its great size.
I might add that your point about China’s potentially explosive problems is sobering. If China blows up (economically and therefore politically), it will be a literally world-class cataclysm.
I just noticed that 10thzodiac was responding to you, not mewzilla, so it’s you that I meant to ping.
On rereading your post, maybe you actually were talking about productive Greek individuals physically moving to China.
My first interpretation of your post, however, seems the more likely scenario to me.
Goldman Sachs should be immediately torn apart and sold off. Oh wait.....half of Jack Squat’s folks are Goldman Sachs linked....oh wait, Goldman Sachs was one of Jack Squat’s largest contributors....my bad.
"It's all the fault of those nasty bankers is it? I tell you, you could execute every banker in Europe, and Greece would still default.
The only people responsible for Greece are the Greeks. They've hit the same problem all socialist cultures hit - the limit of other people's money.
Why should British or German taxpayers bail out other countries corrupt tax and pension systems? - answer : they shouldn't."
This language could easily be applied to California and the inevitable calls for bailout by other states that were not as irresponsible...
A VAT works very differently. It taxes every stage of production. It is much more complex and is typically hidden from the retail consumer. Second, in industrialized countries that have a VAT, it coexists with high-rate income tax, payroll, and many other taxes that, in some instances, have led to marginal tax rates as high as 70 percent. Third, all other industrialized countries, except Australia and Japan, have a much larger tax burden than the U.S., which requires higher rates and makes tax administration much more difficult. Lastly, a VAT is a lobbyists dream, allowing them to install their loopholes unbeknownst to the purchaser. A retail sales tax, in contrast, is a lobbyists nightmare, applied as it is under the bright lights of the retail counter.
In short, FairTax is vastly superior to a VAT because it is NOT a potential "hidden tax."
THAT would be unconstitutional... oh, wait... I forgot. The GOP didn't bother to challenge the Sotomayor nomination...
It’s only a matter of time. California and the other blue states that are ready to go under are too big to fail......
It’s going to be bad news, that’s for sure.
” It has become fashionable to use free economy and anti-liberal sentiment as a cover for (usually pro-liberal) financial oligarchy’s misdeed. “