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Cardinal Schönborn says celibacy partly to blame for clerical sex abuse
The Times of London ^ | March 11, 2010 | Richard Owen

Posted on 03/11/2010 9:52:16 AM PST by EveningStar

A cardinal seen as a future candidate for the papacy has broken a Vatican taboo by raising the possibility that priestly celibacy is among the causes of the sex abuse scandal sweeping the Roman Catholic Church.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: abstinence; bravosierra; cardinalschnborn; cardinalschonborn; catholicchurch; catholicism; catholicshurch; celibacy; romancatholic; romancatholicism

1 posted on 03/11/2010 9:52:16 AM PST by EveningStar
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To: EveningStar

Funny, pedophiles used to be called evil or sin. Christians are supposed to change the culture not surrender to it, future Pope indeed.


2 posted on 03/11/2010 9:54:58 AM PST by Patrick1
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To: EveningStar
If they only had a wife, they'd stop diddling boys.

Logic meltdown.

3 posted on 03/11/2010 9:55:54 AM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: NYer; Coleus; narses; Salvation; Pyro7480

ping


4 posted on 03/11/2010 9:56:09 AM PST by EveningStar (Karl Marx is not one of our Founding Fathers.)
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To: EveningStar

“sex abuse scandal”

Is it the same problem for our teachers? Or the UN when they enter a country?


5 posted on 03/11/2010 9:56:17 AM PST by edcoil (If I had 1 cent for every dollar the government saved, Bill Gates and I would be friends.)
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To: EveningStar

As an outsider looking in, I never know how to take these stories. Did the reporter get it all screwed up? Is this a lose cannon or someone who is speaking for the Church?


6 posted on 03/11/2010 9:56:48 AM PST by DManA
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To: EveningStar

Wasn’t a lack of sex problem. Was a homosexual pedophile problem. For the most part.


7 posted on 03/11/2010 9:57:30 AM PST by John W
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To: EveningStar

I ain’t a Catholic but how can anyone deny that what he says is true? Anyone who observes human behaviors should be able to figure it out.


8 posted on 03/11/2010 9:57:33 AM PST by Past Your Eyes (You don't have to be ignorant to be a Democrat...but if you are...so what?)
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To: EveningStar

I ain’t a Catholic but how can anyone deny that what he says is true? Anyone who observes human behaviors should be able to figure it out.


9 posted on 03/11/2010 9:59:03 AM PST by Past Your Eyes (You don't have to be ignorant to be a Democrat...but if you are...so what?)
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To: EveningStar

if it was celebacy, the abuse would have female victimes in porportion to their numbers in the natural population, instead it is overwhelmingly boys who are abused.
what does this tell you about the sexual preference of the perps?

and could someone tell me why, gay men abuse boys even when heavily involved with the scrpiture, they should be celebrated?


10 posted on 03/11/2010 9:59:39 AM PST by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
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To: EveningStar

Not everyone knows the Catholic church does allow married men to become priests. The best priest I ever knew was divorced and a lawyer from Philadelphia. Entered the priesthood late in life.


11 posted on 03/11/2010 9:59:40 AM PST by Ben Mugged (Unions are the storm troopers of socialism.)
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To: EveningStar
Now stand back and watch the anti-Catholics pounce without even verifying what the Cardinal actually said. The actual comment was that the Church must investigate all long list of all possible causes including celibacy. He did not suggest or conclude that it was “partly the blame for sexual abuse”.
12 posted on 03/11/2010 10:00:30 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: All

I’m not a Catholic, but let’s not turn this into a Catholic bashing thread, OK?


13 posted on 03/11/2010 10:01:47 AM PST by EveningStar (Karl Marx is not one of our Founding Fathers.)
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To: EveningStar

Is there even one faithful Catholic left in Vienna? Cardinal Schönborn needs to focus on the near total apathy in his own backyard and stfu on larger issues like, say, the teaching of the Catholic Church.

There should be a Liberal Catholic counterpart to Godwin’s Law: “As a Forum discussion of the Catholic Church grows longer, the chance of it degenerating into atheists blathering about pedophilia and the crusades approaches 1.

1) The reality is that although the pedophilia scandal is real but grossly distorted and exaggerated. Number one, this is largely a North American phenomenon facilitated by national bishops conferences teaming with dissident, liberal theologians. These are your villains who have consistently promoted and protected their fellow closeted priests. examples: Archbishop Rembert Weakland, Bernard Law, Roger Mahony and Bishop Thomas Gumbleton.

2) The American Church represents about 5% of world Catholics and the number of American priests accused over a half-century span was about 4,392 representing about 4% percent of 110,000 American priests (one quarter of one percent of the 408,024 Catholic priests worldwide).

3) Now lets look at how human beings with access to children behave when they are freed from the evil, repressed, pedophilia-inducing Catholic Church. Study 2004: “Educator Sexual Misconduct: A Synthesis of Existing Literature” by Virginia Commonwealth University Professor Charol Shakeshaft. Conclusions: Nearly 10 percent of U.S. public school students have been targeted with unwanted sexual attention by school employees, and in those cases, 40 percent of the perpetrators were women. As an example of the extent of secular adult abuse, 422,000 California public-school students will be victims before graduation — a number that dwarfs the state’s entire Catholic-school enrollment of 143,000. Secular teachers commit pedophiliac acts at a rate 20x greater than priests of the Catholic Church.

4) Media Bias: The Boston Globe began publishing on Jan. 6, 2002, a series of reports regarding sexual abuse of children by priests in the Archdiocese of Boston. In a flash, newspapers around the country began reprinting the Globe’s reports and developing their own. They published 728 stories in January; 1,095 in February, and 2,961 in March. By April, these papers were publishing a new story every nine minutes, 160 every day, 4,791 for the month. By year-end, American papers provided their readers over 21,000 stories of sexual abuse by Catholic priests.” All this over a 52-year period, where some 4,400 priests nation-wide were “accused” of molestation, and many of those accused were acquitted. If the liberal media were to print lurid stories about the teacher-student sex abuse at the same rate as they reserve for priests, the country would be parched treeless desert for all the paper they would need to print it.
What can we conclude from all this? Of all males who abuse children sexually:

4 percent were priests (By the 1990s, priest abuse declined dramatically, from under 3 percent in the 1990s to near zero in 2000 and after. Source: 2003 Research Study Conducted by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

30% are stepfathers
24% are adoptive fathers
20% are the mothers’ boyfriends
12% are coaches, neighbors, clergy, daycare providers
10% are strangers

4% were priests.

My conclusion as a parent is this: If I must place my children in the care of an adult, my safest bet is to entrust them with Catholic priests (which I do).


14 posted on 03/11/2010 10:07:50 AM PST by Antioch (Benedikt Gott Geschickt)
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To: John W

Most pedophiles, including priests who are pedophiles, are heterosexual.


15 posted on 03/11/2010 10:09:16 AM PST by MrChips (MrChips)
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To: Past Your Eyes
I ain’t a Catholic but how can anyone deny that what he says is true? Anyone who observes human behaviors should be able to figure it out.

Maybe you ain't a Catholic, but if you ain't married, does that mean you'll feel the urge to sodomize children?

16 posted on 03/11/2010 10:09:50 AM PST by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: MrChips

Most of the known abuse cases in the Roman Catholic Church were of a homosexual pedophile nature by definition. I don’t know how else you could refer to a man sexually abusing a minor boy.


17 posted on 03/11/2010 10:12:07 AM PST by John W
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To: All
OH REALLY?..... HOW IS THAT?

LOOK i went to the seminary for one year (long story) and even though I had a lot of fun there (lots of soccer) I never considered the real possibility of becoming a priest.. WHY Y0U ASKED?... Because when I saw some WOMEN...YES WOMEN... I felt my knees wobble... That's right... I sure would have been a bad priest

Now what does that have to do with QUEERS abusing little children? Wouldn't you say that has to do more with PERVERSION... A CORRUPTED MIND?... A SICK BRAIN?

See the cuties in the PIC? What do you think of them?


18 posted on 03/11/2010 10:14:37 AM PST by ElPatriota (The SILENCE of the Catholic Church in protecting our culture from perversion is ** DEAFENING **)
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To: MrChips
Most pedophiles, including priests who are pedophiles, are heterosexual.

That's a dopey statistic, considering that 97% or so of all people are heterosexual.

19 posted on 03/11/2010 10:16:12 AM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: EveningStar

I think priests should be allowed to marry, but I don’t agree that celibacy is the problem regarding child molestation; that comes from allowing pedophiles into the priesthood.


20 posted on 03/11/2010 10:17:05 AM PST by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: EveningStar
People that are inclined to take the unnatural step of forsaking basic physical needs are attempting to deny them for a higher purpose. Why would they want to deny them? They are told that homosexuality, or just sexuality is wrong. Not all of those that seek to serve, but enough for it to be attractive for a future priest or nun to "save" themselves in this way. When they fail, they fail big. Needs denied have a way of bursting through in a very large way.

IMO, the church needs to get rid of the celibacy as a requirement to be a priest, and erase the stigma of sex as a sin. The Bible clearly teaches that sex within marriage is God inspired and blessed, allow these people to have a full life. It will make them better "servants of God".

21 posted on 03/11/2010 10:17:40 AM PST by runninglips (Don't support the Republican party, work to "fundamentally change" it...conservative would be nice)
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To: Patrick1
Those criminal priests are technically not pedophiles. Pedophiles target very young children. The offending priests are really homosexual males who target adolescent males. (From “The Marketing of Evil” by David Kupelian)

It would seem to me that the church's problems along these lines are directly connected to some of the kind of recruits a “celibate” (read womanless) culture draws in today's society.

In earlier societies with much less in-your-face sexual attitudes than ours, celibate life for normal men was a little easier to deal with than today. Consequently, today, males with normal sexual drives find it more difficult to deal with a celibate lifestyle.

In my opinion, the above two factors have combined to draw some unsavory characters into the Catholic Priesthood, i.e. predatory homosexual males.

Although most Catholic Priests are not predatory homosexuals, even a significant minority of them are what Christendom really doesn't need right now in its struggles with militant Islam.

“The celibacy rule for priests was not part of the early Christian Church but was introduced in the Middle Ages. A number of early Christian fathers were married, including St Peter himself, according to St Mark's Gospel. “

That should say it all. My guess is some Pope in the non-too-distant future, will permit marriage among the regular clergy and the Catholic Church, as well as the rest Christendom, will be the better for it.

22 posted on 03/11/2010 10:18:29 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, Guts and Guns made America great.)
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To: Past Your Eyes

Because we’re not hearing that priests are raping adults.


23 posted on 03/11/2010 10:19:25 AM PST by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: EveningStar

The Cdl. is just saying examine it thorouly. He made no judgement about whether celibacy is the cause. I would guess he thinks not, but wants a study to prove it.

Common sense says it is not an issue. People who make sex the be all of their existence think that if one has plenty of sex all will be O.K. and that a woman available will prevent guys from preying on boys. Stupid. Those guys are attracted to boys and they do not exercise control over their attractions regardless of how destructive they might be to themselves, the boys, thier wives if they have one and society.

They need to learn impulse control.


24 posted on 03/11/2010 10:20:31 AM PST by amihow
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To: Antioch
” Cardinal Schönborn needs to focus on the near total apathy in his own backyard and stfu on larger issues like, say, the teaching of the Catholic Church.”

But that is the whole point.

The Catholic Church clearly draws a line between the Laws of God, i.e. murder, homosexuality, etc., and the Laws of the Church, such as mandatory celibacy - which in fact is waved in the Catholic Church for certain Eastern Rite Priests.

To adhere to a policy which is not required by the Law of God, and is a cultural reflection of an earlier time period, when it apparently is the source of some of the current problems encountered is counter-productive in my opinion.

25 posted on 03/11/2010 10:21:57 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, Guts and Guns made America great.)
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To: EveningStar
" Cardinal Schönborn says celibacy partly to blame for clerical sex abuse"

This article is pure B.S. If a celebate heterosexual man decides to break his vows of chastity he will do it with a woman, period. The problem is HOMOSEXUALITY, and nothing else. There was a Papal directive signed by Pope John XXIII in the early 1960's banning homosexuals from the seminaries, and it obviously hasn't been heeded. The Catholic Church needs to sanitize itself of the homosexual bishops first of all, because they are the final arbiters of who enters the seminaries.

26 posted on 03/11/2010 10:25:17 AM PST by jiminycricket000
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To: MrChips

It is my understanding, though, that pedophiles are disproportionately homosexual, statistically speaking, in relation to the % of the population believed to be homosexual. Who knows for sure?


27 posted on 03/11/2010 10:30:34 AM PST by pogo101
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To: dead

Ya, you bring up the fact that the majority of these cases were homosexual priests who abused boys.

The MSM generally has talked about the priest child abuse issue as an issue of child molesters in general, rather than reporting that so many were homosexuals.


28 posted on 03/11/2010 10:39:45 AM PST by Dilbert San Diego
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To: Past Your Eyes

I guess the teachers, coaches, other clergy, civic leaders, and others from all walks of life ain’t married either right?

Assuming you are married, does that mean you were predisposed to pedophilia when you were single?


29 posted on 03/11/2010 10:40:20 AM PST by perez24 (Dirty deeds, done dirt cheap.)
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To: skr
Ahhhh. Whoever whould have thought that there is corruption in the Catholic church?
30 posted on 03/11/2010 10:40:46 AM PST by Past Your Eyes (You don't have to be ignorant to be a Democrat...but if you are...so what?)
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To: dead

If membership in the Catholic clergy were not limited to people who were willing at a young age to forego sex and procreation, then the concentration of sexual misfits in that profession would not be as great. Makes total sense to me.


31 posted on 03/11/2010 10:42:09 AM PST by babble-on
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To: runninglips

Roger that. Not all can be Paul nor should they even try.


32 posted on 03/11/2010 10:43:40 AM PST by Past Your Eyes (You don't have to be ignorant to be a Democrat...but if you are...so what?)
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To: dead
If they only had a wife, they'd stop diddling boys.
Logic meltdown.

It is not a logic meltdown to say that the requirement for celibacy turns away a huge class of honest heterosexual men. They would be much be a much better replacement for those who are willing to lie about celibacy because they are already lying about their sexual inclination.

33 posted on 03/11/2010 10:47:10 AM PST by wideminded
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To: perez24

I was replying to what was seen when opening this thread. I never mentioned anything about pedophilia.
But it’s all part of the whole. Priests are people. There’s going to be bad ones like there is in any group of people and to suppress natural and healthy human urges is to send them off into a bad direction. When you take a balloon and try to squeeze it to make it smaller, it only pops out in a different place.


34 posted on 03/11/2010 10:49:20 AM PST by Past Your Eyes (You don't have to be ignorant to be a Democrat...but if you are...so what?)
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To: jiminycricket000

People just can’t seem to wrap their mind around the FACTS: The pedophilia “problem”is statistically far lower in the Catholic Priesthood than any other group, all of which allow marriage!) Celibacy within the priesthood has No relationship to abuse. None whatever.

The three companies that insure the majority of Protestant churches (Church Mutual Insurance Co., GuideOne Insurance Co. and Brotherhood Mutual Insurance Co.) in America say they typically receive upward of 260 reports each year of young people under 18 being sexually abused by clergy, church staff, volunteers or congregation members. There are 340,000 protestant churches in America, so we can double the abuse claims to a total of about 500 abuse claims per year against married clergy and ministry workers. That figure dwarfs the abuse claims against the Catholic Church over the last 50 years.

If you take nothing away from this, consider this merely secular argument: the gift of celibacy in the priesthood is a brilliantly simple way of warding off hypersexualized, pornified liberal elites who will NEVER accept limits on their sexual indulgences.


35 posted on 03/11/2010 10:59:25 AM PST by Antioch (Benedikt Gott Geschickt)
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To: EveningStar

I am not a Catholic, but I cannot understand why the Church handled the scandal the way it did.
Couldn’t the Church have turned the whole thing around by blaming it on gays infiltrating the seminaries?


36 posted on 03/11/2010 11:10:16 AM PST by hecht
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To: ZULU

Well said.


37 posted on 03/11/2010 11:40:32 AM PST by Patrick1
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To: camle
if it was celebacy, the abuse would have female victimes in porportion to their numbers in the natural population

Have you ever heard of an "altar girl"?

38 posted on 03/11/2010 11:41:28 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: Natural Law
Well, I think both sides have some right on their side.

The decline in the observance of continence and chastity among the Catholic clergy which occurred in the 1960s had two effects:

First, large numbers of heterosexual priests and nuns married (often each other). Because these marriages were for the most part public acts, the ministry of these individuals ceased immediately.

Secondly, as the numbers of heterosexual clergy fell, the PROPORTION of priests and nuns who were homosexuals rose accordingly.

Thirdly, although the new openness to genital relations may not have been more frequent among homosexual priests and nuns, their acts, as opposed to those of the now-married heterosexual priests and nuns, were by definition clandestine.

Putting together a larger fraction of the clergy being homosexual and the new openness to (clandestine) sexual relations, together with the absence of previously chaste but heterosexual men and women in rectories and convents, and you have a situation almost tailor-made for scandal.

39 posted on 03/11/2010 11:51:48 AM PST by Jim Noble (Hu's the communist?)
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To: EveningStar

It was allowing HOMOSEXUALS into the priesthood that caused the problem of priests sexually abusing altar boys.


40 posted on 03/11/2010 12:32:32 PM PST by Don W (I only keep certain folks' numbers in my 'phone so I know NOT to answer when they call)
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To: dead
If they only had a wife, they'd stop diddling boys.

Those wives of Michael Jackson really cured him of his pedophlia and the fact is that the majority of pedophiles are married men.

You and Schonborn are two geniuses who have no explanation for the behavior of these protestants

41 posted on 03/11/2010 1:29:23 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: John W
Most of the known abuse cases in the Roman Catholic Church were of a homosexual pedophile nature by definition.

Incorrect. The majority of cases involved homosexual ephebophilia - post pubescent - by defintion, not pedophilia. The leftstream media didn't want to admit that because it didn't support the "celibacy is the reason" mantra chanted by those whose intent is to destroy the Church.

42 posted on 03/11/2010 1:36:35 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
You really couldn't tell that sentence was facetious? Seriously? Even after I wrote "Logic meltdown" right after it, you still read that and thought I was agreeing with Schonborn?

Good lord, that's pathetic.

43 posted on 03/11/2010 1:37:16 PM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: EveningStar

Considering the source.. I’m betting the Cardinal said something else that was twisted into this headline.


44 posted on 03/11/2010 4:19:32 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (Liberals are educated above their level of intelligence.. Thanks Sr. Angelica)
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To: pogo101

Who knows? The pedophiles themselves know. And among the reported and convicted cases, i.e. of those we know, they are overwhelmingly heterosexual in their orientations. This is particularly true of the priests who have been reported.


45 posted on 03/16/2010 7:01:47 AM PDT by MrChips (MrChips)
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To: MrChips

We’re talking past each other.

You: “They’re mostly hetero.”

Me: “Yes, but they’re disproportionately homosexual.”

You: “They’re mostly hetero.”

I give up.


46 posted on 03/16/2010 8:49:33 AM PDT by pogo101
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To: pogo101

I am just being factual, based on documented research.


47 posted on 03/16/2010 2:37:18 PM PDT by MrChips (MrChips)
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To: DManA

If I remember correctly Schoenborn is a liberal


48 posted on 03/16/2010 2:39:56 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: MrChips

So am I. You’ve not gainsaid my point, and I’ve not even attempted to gainsay yours.

95 plus percent of the population is heterosexual. Is it your contention that 95% or more of child molestations are involve opposite sexes of victim and perp? I content it isn’t (i.e., that the offenses are disproportionately homosexual, if still majority-hetero.)


49 posted on 03/16/2010 2:58:30 PM PDT by pogo101
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To: pogo101

I just know what I read. And one thing is certain: the heterosexual community is every bit as promiscuous as the homosexual community, and yes, the fact that they are 90% of the population actually argues for their greater involvement in child molestation. But, I am not arguing from a theoretical standpoint, nor am I speculating. I just know what I read. The research has been done. What is clearly wrong is to blame homosexuality for pedophilia, which the Church tried to do in the wake of the priest mess, using it as a scapegoat rather than blaming itself, or celibacy, or the structure of the Church, itself. Note, however, that I do not necessarily blame celibacy either. There are plenty of cases of clergy pedophilia in Protestant churches, too, and among married men.


50 posted on 03/16/2010 3:12:31 PM PDT by MrChips (MrChips)
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