Posted on 03/25/2010 12:45:04 PM PDT by conservativesister
I don’t think that name was ever in the paper in 1961. Long story. Hopefully the whole story can come out soon.
I noticed the copies of the indices that were published by the Post & E-mail look like the scans were cropped and information was redacted from it. I’m curious to see what other information was contained on the indices from the area that wasn’t cropped. The posted indices for example contained mother’s name and father’s name. Also, I would think you could ask for a list by date of birth or by date filed. If you were trying to do some genealogical research, you might for example only have a birth date for a relative, so such information should be retreivable by other variables. It works that way in other states, at least.
I’m not seeing anything compelling to suggest it wouldn’t be.
Yup. It has to be ironclad in this climate, with this particular subject for reasons stated previously.
I think for genealogy purposes the record has to be 75 years old (I might not be remembering that exactly, but I know it’s a long time).
The P&E posted the Certificate of Hawaiian Birth index. They haven’t added any more names to that since 1972, when the COHB program was phased out.
Before UIPA was passed the DOH was required to make index information available to the public, including the certificate number and date of birth as well as what is now included in index data. When UIPA was being deliberated it was inserted into the record that records already available were not meant to be subject to UIPA’s exemptions to disclosure. IOW, UIPA was not supposed to cut off access to records already available to the public. So the certificate number the DOH is so closely guarding is actually supposed to be public information, as is the birth date.
Anything you ask for besides name or gender that actually appears on a birth certificate they will say they can’t disclose.
Unless Fukino makes a public announcement saying the place of birth. That’s different. They won’t tell you why, but they will swear they can disclose that...
Only if Biden would be removed at the same time, or at least before a Vice President was appointed. Then it would be that person who was next. That's how we got President Ford.
Your post is pretty much how I feel about the issue, especially #2.
I’d only take slight exception to #1. There is no evidence, that I’m aware, of any lawyers being consulted before the statement was released.
What I think MAY have happened is that Obama’s mother did procure a fake certificate of birth for him (which was possible at the time, I have come to realize), and now, the HA health department is in a bit of a quandary. To admit that what they have on record for him is not an original BC but one of these documents that could have been faked, by two “witnesses” “attesting” he was born there, would be embarassing for the state. So that, coupled with the fact that any time any record of birth is/was generated a news announcement would be triggered, no massive conspiracy would be required. At most, if all of this is true, all of this is an example of the end result of government beaurocracy and fortunate timing for Obama.
All of the above is possible, which is why I’m not on every “Birther” thread flamming them for being “conspiracy kooks”. It’s possible, but not likely. Indeed the premise for all if this rests on the analysis of the BC photos from Fact Check. I’m not expert enough in photo analysis to refute such claims, so now here I am, almost a full year after I started researching the subject, unable to give a definite conclusion.
I’m a pragmatist though, and pragmatically speaking, with the evidence we have now, it is unlikely the “Birther” route will ever be successful.
Many like to say, when faced with this pragmatic approach, “I guess you don’t think the Constitution is worth fighting for.”
Not only is that unfair, but untrue. It’s unfair and untrue because, simply because I do not believe this route holds any promise doesn’t mean I don’t care about the Consitution. It simply means that I believe other means of attack could be more successful. The suggestion upthread to neuter Obama as much as possible is probably the best strategy, IMO.
After all, the charge of, “I guess you don’t care about the Constitution” could be leveled against anyone who didn’t support action against anything violating the Constitution, no matter how unlikely success would be. IOW, I don’t see too many people calling for the repeal of Social Security, and that’s not in the Constitution.
If asked, most conservatives would probably say, “I’d LIKE to see it repealed, but It just isn’t practical to think it CAN be repealed”.
And they would be right to be so pragmatic.
That is settled law. If born in the US, one is a citizen, with the exception of representatives of foreign governments.
However plain old citizenship is not the Constiutional requirement. Natural Born Citizen status is.
That may be. But, bottom line, the political process cannot overide the provisions of the Constitution. (save by making amendments to it as provided therein)
I think I’ve shown pretty clearly through the documentation on my blog that all the Hawaiian officials have balked at obeying their own laws.
Regarding the “Vexatious Requestor” Bill - which would have effectively nullified their open records law - there was ONE (count ‘em, ONE) law-maker who voted to uphold the current open records law.
One of the OIP Attorneys put a short line in a response to John Charlton saying that even if disclosure is required by Hawaii law, records can legally be withheld if FEDERAL FUNDING would be jeopardized. I have a suspicion that there’s some fine print somewhere that factors in here. Possibly the executive order Obama signed for an initiative to improve prospects for Pacific Islanders including native Hawaiians. I believe he signed that shortly after Fukino made her carefully-crafted statement saying they have a piece of paper somewhere in their office that claims Obama was born in Hawaii.
AG Mark Bennett is a big part of the problem. His office is claiming now that the proof of Obama being born in Hawaii is the existence of his name on the DOH birth index. When asked if the birth index only includes people who were born in Hawaii, the office responded that they weren’t saying that and they are done answering any questions from the person who asked the question.
That’s the Republican Hawaiian leadership...
Any prosecuting attorney in the United States can inititate a Grand Jury investigation for forgery and/or fraud concerning Obama’s internet posted C.O.L.B. All it would take is for any one judge to sign for a subpoena of the Director of Hawaii’s Department of Health, Dr. Chiyome Fukino and the Registrar of Vital Reocrds in Hawaii, Dr. Alvin T. Onaka to appear before such a Grand Jury to testify and they could also be court ordered to provide Obama’s original birth records. Judges sign such court ordered subpoenas for Attorneys General or District Attorneys all the time so that they can conduct criminal investigations.
Every attempt to get at Obama’s long form, vault copy birth records via civil lawsuits has failed. That’s 74 separate attempts. A criminal investigation via a Grand Jury would be a new approach to resolving the issue. No such criminal investigation has been attempted to date.
How would that prove Obama is lying?? What exactly did he say??
Back in 2008 he said that the COLB is the only birth certificate that he can get from Hawaii.
I’m going to show my blatant ignorance of the law enforcement and judicial system here: Who would qualify as a prosecuting attorney? Are there jurisdictional issues, or can any DA, AG, etc initiate a Grand Jury investigation? How would one go about getting this underway? Private mail me if you’ve got advice or direction for me.
The thing I’m concerned about is that Obama’s folks would come up with an “original birth certificate” that is then touted as legit but that does nothing to explain the criminal actions and the obfuscation from the DOH and OIP in Hawaii. To be truthful, I am just as interested in those people being investigated as Obama himself being investigated, because their lawlessness screwed this whole nation.
I once reported the forensic evidence of the Factcheck forgery to my local sheriff, state AG (Nebraska), governor, Nebraska’s US attorney, etc. The only one that answered me at all was my local sheriff who said they don’t have the resources to investigate the POTUS. And of course, I tried contacting everybody I could get e-mail addies for in Hawaii’s government and law enforcement system. What am I missing here? What can I do?
From a Nebraska perspective, I don’t think Obama had to sign anything to get on the ballot here. I think we just required a Cert of Nomination from the DNC, so if the crime had to be particular to Nebraska in order for our AG to investigate it would probably have to be a crime associated with Nancy Pelosi.
I am so ignorant of how this all works it’s not even funny. Please educate me.
At this point I would only trust a long-form birth certificate that also made sense of the responses and behaviors I’ve experienced from the DOH and OIP - as well as an audit of the electronic record of Obama’s birth.
That’s why I would actually like an investigation of the DOH and OIP officials who have been involved in this whole mess - together with the Factcheck people involved and a few others that I won’t name yet. They’ve been breaking laws to hide something; I want to know what and why.
If you're not related, yes. Some people work on geneaology projects for people whom they may not fit the direct and tangible interest requirement. The point is that they have the information on file or in their databases, which would help track down lost relatives or lost records.
The P&E posted the Certificate of Hawaiian Birth index. They haven’t added any more names to that since 1972, when the COHB program was phased out.
Right, but there's no reason to assume the standard birth index would be formatted or organized any differently. They had to run a query and print out those pages, then manually redact parents' names with markers, then scan the pages to create PDFs to send out. It's not clear if those pages were specifically printed in response to P&E's request or if that's the ways these indices have been historically filed and made available to walk-in members of the public. IOW, they may be more cautious with what they e-mail out than what you can see in person, unless they've made changes in response to Obama requests.
How about a link??
At this point would you trust a copy of a long form birth certificate released by Obama or by the state of Hawaii?
I wouldn't 'trust' either, since I'm not a faither. I would feel more comfortable if the state released it and allowed unhindered scrutiny.
I’m going to show my blatant ignorance of the law enforcement and judicial system here: Who would qualify as a prosecuting attorney? Are there jurisdictional issues, or can any DA, AG, etc initiate a Grand Jury investigation? How would one go about getting this underway? Private mail me if you’ve got advice or direction for me.
The thing I’m concerned about is that Obama’s folks would come up with an “original birth certificate” that is then touted as legit but that does nothing to explain the criminal actions and the obfuscation from the DOH and OIP in Hawaii. To be truthful, I am just as interested in those people being investigated as Obama himself being investigated, because their lawlessness screwed this whole nation.
I once reported the forensic evidence of the Factcheck forgery to my local sheriff, state AG (Nebraska), governor, Nebraska’s US attorney, etc. The only one that answered me at all was my local sheriff who said they don’t have the resources to investigate the POTUS. And of course, I tried contacting everybody I could get e-mail addies for in Hawaii’s government and law enforcement system. What am I missing here? What can I do?
From a Nebraska perspective, I don’t think Obama had to sign anything to get on the ballot here. I think we just required a Cert of Nomination from the DNC, so if the crime had to be particular to Nebraska in order for our AG to investigate it would probably have to be a crime associated with Nancy Pelosi.
I am so ignorant of how this all works it’s not even funny. Please educate me.
A federal, state or county prosecutor can initiate a Grand Jury investigation at their own discretion. Only the states of California, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New York, Nevada, and Oregon have laws which impanel county Grand Juries.
Major cities often have provisions for Grand Juries as well.
Grand Juries meet on criminal matters not civil lawsuits.
A famous and somewhat related use of a Grand Jury was US Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald who used a federal Grand Jury to indict Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. Fitzgerald’s indictment of the governor was enough to bring him down via impeachment, even in a state with an overwhelmingly Democrat controlled legislature.
I think they must have their form set up to only include the name and gender, since that’s what they have in their index books. It is interesting that the COHB index includes more information.
I’ve asked them for index data from a particular index - in fact, the indices that are listed in the “Office Use Only” portion of their birth certificate request form, which I think referred to Hawaiian Birth index, delayed BC index, No Records Index, and Pending Index. They answered that they can’t reveal anything about a birth certificate (apparently including the legal status of it).
It was actually in response to that, that I asked for the non-certified abbreviated copy of Obama’s BC - I knew it was BS that the legal status of the BC is protected from disclosure, since the status (and BC number) would be on a non-certified copy which is authorized to be released to anybody who asks for it.
So they’re lying about not being able to disclose that, and actually their response to John, showing the COHB index, also shows they can disclose a particular index. I’m not sure if it’s worth trying to battle with them over it. I guess I’m tired. It must be Friday afternoon.
So do you think a genealogist would have information that wouldn’t show up in places like Intelius - or could get access that others can’t get? I’ve never worked with genealogy so I’m really clueless about what’s available. Any information that
I wouldn’t ‘trust’ either, since I’m not a faither. I would feel more comfortable if the state released it and allowed unhindered scrutiny.
So Nebraska’s AG, for instance, could initiate an investigation of the crime of forgery which actually took place in Chicago, or the crime of perjury which actually took place when Pelosi signed a Certificate of Nomination in Denver, CO? Does there have to be a direct connection to Nebraska? Or would federal election fraud that affected Nebraska, for instance, be a legitimate subject for a Nebraska AG to investigate?
If I were to try to approach my AG, what should I keep in mind? What would be the best way to do it?
Congress is on break for a while now. Would it make sense to try to contact my Rep or Senator and have them contact the AG, if they would? I don’t know how this stuff works.
I was watching a show on ABC called "Find My Family." They try to reunite kids given up for adoption with their biological parents or any siblings from whom they've been separated. In one episode, in order to find the child, they had investigators get a list of all children born with the same first name on a particular date. I realized they were looking at something similar to a birth index or query. Once they had a name, they were able to cross check all the Barrys or whoever was born on that date and see who was listed in the phone directories and started calling each one of them to see which ones had been given up for adoption. I'm willing to be that's at least part of the reason why Hawaii originally had file numbers and date of birth included as part of their index data.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.